Brass Ark BH62, Schatz lead pipes
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Does anyone have experience with these lead pipes? Comments? Opinions?
The horn is a Yam 620 bass, gold brass bell, brass outers. The stock lead pipe is 11” long, nearly no taper.
The horn is a Yam 620 bass, gold brass bell, brass outers. The stock lead pipe is 11” long, nearly no taper.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="mrdeacon"]I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
The 620 is not the Yeo horn. That is/was the 622/822 models. This is Yam’s basic pro bass trombone, although it was marketed with younger students in mind. I doubt Mr. Y had anything to do with the design. It came with a Yam 58.
Mpc I’m using? All of them. :) I’m experimenting with mpcs from a 2G to a DE 114 set up. Leaning towards the smaller sizes after reading the 2G thread (including videos).
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
The 620 is not the Yeo horn. That is/was the 622/822 models. This is Yam’s basic pro bass trombone, although it was marketed with younger students in mind. I doubt Mr. Y had anything to do with the design. It came with a Yam 58.
Mpc I’m using? All of them. :) I’m experimenting with mpcs from a 2G to a DE 114 set up. Leaning towards the smaller sizes after reading the 2G thread (including videos).
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]<QUOTE author="mrdeacon" post_id="136518" time="1610069258" user_id="3239">
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
What would you suggest instead? And why?
</QUOTE>
Well, what mouthpiece are you using? Like Deacon said, it's got a long leadpipe to provide focus to the large mouthpiece Yeo played. If you're playing a 1.5G it'll feel a bit tenor-y.
Those leadpipes you mention aren't bad, but I'm not sure if they would be my first choice for this horn.
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
What would you suggest instead? And why?
</QUOTE>
Well, what mouthpiece are you using? Like Deacon said, it's got a long leadpipe to provide focus to the large mouthpiece Yeo played. If you're playing a 1.5G it'll feel a bit tenor-y.
Those leadpipes you mention aren't bad, but I'm not sure if they would be my first choice for this horn.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Aidan: What would be your first choice (keeping in mind we’re not talking about the Yeo horn)?
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]<QUOTE author="mrdeacon" post_id="136518" time="1610069258" user_id="3239">
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
The 620 is not the Yeo horn. That is/was the 622/822 models. This is Yam’s basic bass trombone. I doubt Mr. Y had anything to do with the design. It came with a Yam 58.
Mpc I’m using? All of them. I’m experimenting with mpcs from a 2G to a DE 114 set up.
</QUOTE>
Ah! Ooops I'm getting rusty on my Yamaha instruments haha.
If you're looking for a good all-around pipe something like a standard Bach 50B pipe or one of the Bach MV 50B copy pipes would be a good fit. You also can never go wrong with a Shires #2, #2.5 or an Edwards pipe.
The BH62 work amazing in horns with J bends but is often too tight for other horns and the Schatz pipe is amazing in Holtons but isn't always the best fit in everything else. I love both pipes and use them in different horns.
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
The 620 is not the Yeo horn. That is/was the 622/822 models. This is Yam’s basic bass trombone. I doubt Mr. Y had anything to do with the design. It came with a Yam 58.
Mpc I’m using? All of them. I’m experimenting with mpcs from a 2G to a DE 114 set up.
</QUOTE>
Ah! Ooops I'm getting rusty on my Yamaha instruments haha.
If you're looking for a good all-around pipe something like a standard Bach 50B pipe or one of the Bach MV 50B copy pipes would be a good fit. You also can never go wrong with a Shires #2, #2.5 or an Edwards pipe.
The BH62 work amazing in horns with J bends but is often too tight for other horns and the Schatz pipe is amazing in Holtons but isn't always the best fit in everything else. I love both pipes and use them in different horns.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
I have not particularly cared for Bach-style pipes in my smaller horns. I apparently lean towards Conn-style (Sauer, VE, 32H) pipes.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
J-bends meaning TIS instruments.
A simple choice is a Shires 2.
A simple choice is a Shires 2.
- JoeStanko
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="mrdeacon"]I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="JoeStanko"]<QUOTE author="mrdeacon" post_id="136518" time="1610069258" user_id="3239">
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.
</QUOTE>
If this comment is in regards to me mixing up model numbers I apologize. We all make mistakes! I wish OP the best in his search for the perfect leadpipe. It's a deep deep rabbit hole finding the perfect one.
I'm not sure I'd use either in a 620.... What mouthpiece are you using?
The 620 has the long pipe in it because Yeo was using a toilet bowl with it.[/quote]
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.
</QUOTE>
If this comment is in regards to me mixing up model numbers I apologize. We all make mistakes! I wish OP the best in his search for the perfect leadpipe. It's a deep deep rabbit hole finding the perfect one.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="mrdeacon"]<QUOTE author="JoeStanko" post_id="136533" time="1610079583" user_id="3042">
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.[/quote]
If this comment is in regards to me mixing up model numbers I apologize. We all make mistakes! I wish OP the best in his search for the perfect leadpipe. It's a deep deep rabbit hole finding the perfect one.
</QUOTE>
I think that comment was an overreaction considering i didn't see any disrespect or toilet language being shown.
Show some respect, spend time listening, and watch your language.[/quote]
If this comment is in regards to me mixing up model numbers I apologize. We all make mistakes! I wish OP the best in his search for the perfect leadpipe. It's a deep deep rabbit hole finding the perfect one.
</QUOTE>
I think that comment was an overreaction considering i didn't see any disrespect or toilet language being shown.
- FOSSIL
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
If you call a great player's mouthpiece a toilet bowl, that may well be considered disrespectful.
The Yeo developed Yamahas do indeed work better with larger mouthpieces. The finest Yamaha bass I have ever played was a 620 and that was happiest with smaller mouthpieces. Everybody that tried that horn was blown away by it. The sound was as good as the feel..
Pipes vary hugely... far more than mouthpieces, so I rarely recommend a particular pipe . I have around 25 pipes and they all play differently in the same trombone....they also react differently with different trombones.
The original Yamaha pipe in the 620 is good. You will have a hard and expensive time finding something better. If you are American, Bach and Bach derived pipes still help players get the sound they grew up with. Out of all the fancy pipes I have, I use an old Conn 70H pipe....gives me a hint of the sound I grew up with.
Chris
The Yeo developed Yamahas do indeed work better with larger mouthpieces. The finest Yamaha bass I have ever played was a 620 and that was happiest with smaller mouthpieces. Everybody that tried that horn was blown away by it. The sound was as good as the feel..
Pipes vary hugely... far more than mouthpieces, so I rarely recommend a particular pipe . I have around 25 pipes and they all play differently in the same trombone....they also react differently with different trombones.
The original Yamaha pipe in the 620 is good. You will have a hard and expensive time finding something better. If you are American, Bach and Bach derived pipes still help players get the sound they grew up with. Out of all the fancy pipes I have, I use an old Conn 70H pipe....gives me a hint of the sound I grew up with.
Chris
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="FOSSIL"]If you call a great player's mouthpiece a toilet bowl, that may well be considered disrespectful.[/quote]
I dunno, I often see that phrase used completely neutrally as shorthand for 60/1G plus. Cf. 'peashooter'...
ANYWAY, to get back to Bach5G's question...
[quote="FOSSIL"]The original Yamaha pipe in the 620 is good. You will have a hard and expensive time finding something better.[/quote]
and removing the 620's may be less straightforward if, like some other Yamahas, it's a two piece.
It would be helpful to know what specific characteristics you are looking for from a different leadpipe.
I dunno, I often see that phrase used completely neutrally as shorthand for 60/1G plus. Cf. 'peashooter'...
ANYWAY, to get back to Bach5G's question...
[quote="FOSSIL"]The original Yamaha pipe in the 620 is good. You will have a hard and expensive time finding something better.[/quote]
and removing the 620's may be less straightforward if, like some other Yamahas, it's a two piece.
It would be helpful to know what specific characteristics you are looking for from a different leadpipe.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
No, no, no.
“This model [822] is a refined version of the very successful YBL-622 and like its predecessor was developed with the great artist Douglas Yeo of the Boston Symphony at the time. ...
Product Information
YBL-822G Xeno Model Bass Trombone
A removable second valve section gives this trombone remarkable versatility”
I’m not asking about the Yeo model! I’m asking about the 620G.
And I already had R Partch remove the lead pipe. All 11”. I wonder if Yam just used the same leadpipe in both horns?
“This model [822] is a refined version of the very successful YBL-622 and like its predecessor was developed with the great artist Douglas Yeo of the Boston Symphony at the time. ...
Product Information
YBL-822G Xeno Model Bass Trombone
A removable second valve section gives this trombone remarkable versatility”
I’m not asking about the Yeo model! I’m asking about the 620G.
And I already had R Partch remove the lead pipe. All 11”. I wonder if Yam just used the same leadpipe in both horns?
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="Bach5G"]I wonder if Yam just used the same leadpipe in both horns?[/quote]
No, different - was looking up something else in the[url=https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/orders/search_result_e.php?m=&p=&k=&bc=002&mc=002_005&sc=002_005_004]Yamaha parts database so I checked.
There are only three Yamaha bass leadpipe designs, used as follows:
- All non-Yeo dependents (612 and 620), singles (322 and 421), and the early 80s 613/613R. (Given that this includes student models going back to the 1970s, it's doubtful that it was conceived with XL mouthpieces in mind...)
- The two Yeo models (622 and 822).
- The 1990s-current indys (613H/HS/HEL and 830).
No, different - was looking up something else in the
There are only three Yamaha bass leadpipe designs, used as follows:
- All non-Yeo dependents (612 and 620), singles (322 and 421), and the early 80s 613/613R. (Given that this includes student models going back to the 1970s, it's doubtful that it was conceived with XL mouthpieces in mind...)
- The two Yeo models (622 and 822).
- The 1990s-current indys (613H/HS/HEL and 830).
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="ithinknot"]<QUOTE author="Bach5G" post_id="136574" time="1610125110" user_id="2999">
I wonder if Yam just used the same leadpipe in both horns?[/quote]
No, different - was looking up something else in the[url=https://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/orders/search_result_e.php?m=&p=&k=&bc=002&mc=002_005&sc=002_005_004]Yamaha parts database so I checked.
There are only three Yamaha bass leadpipe designs, used as follows:
- All non-Yeo dependents (612 and 620), singles (322 and 421), and the early 80s 613/613R. (Given that this includes student models going back to the 1970s, it's doubtful that it was conceived with XL mouthpieces in mind...)
- The two Yeo models (622 and 822).
- The 1990s-current indys (613H/HS/HEL and 830).
</QUOTE>
Any idea how the leadpipes in the 822 and 830 differ from those in the 620? Length? I would think Mr. Yeo would have considered nearly every aspect of the 622/822’s design when he worked on it with Yamaha.
I wonder if Yam just used the same leadpipe in both horns?[/quote]
No, different - was looking up something else in the
There are only three Yamaha bass leadpipe designs, used as follows:
- All non-Yeo dependents (612 and 620), singles (322 and 421), and the early 80s 613/613R. (Given that this includes student models going back to the 1970s, it's doubtful that it was conceived with XL mouthpieces in mind...)
- The two Yeo models (622 and 822).
- The 1990s-current indys (613H/HS/HEL and 830).
</QUOTE>
Any idea how the leadpipes in the 822 and 830 differ from those in the 620? Length? I would think Mr. Yeo would have considered nearly every aspect of the 622/822’s design when he worked on it with Yamaha.