Dilemma: Do I want a new horn? Do I want to trade?
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
I'm a lower intermediate jazz player. i've been in a brass band, i'm looking for a new one, and i'm also looking to get into EDM brass.
Here's my dilemma. I have a silver plated (not sterling) 1978 king 3b forn with an F attachment. it's a lovely sounding instrument and i got it for a great price, $900. I'm thinking I could sell it for around $2k?
What I hate about this horn is the maintenance. I never really use the F attachment as much as i thought since I stopped playing in the community orchestra. I'd occasionally use it in my brass band but not really enough to justify it. But I do love my horn. You can love things that piss you off.
I'm a stickler for cleaning/polishing my instrument. I only really enjoy it when it sounds at its best. I know I would be more encouraged to play it more often if the maintenance was easier.
I want a horn without an F attachment. However:
-silver plated trombones are hard to find!
-I'd be fairly indecisive if I wanted to get a sterling horn (i love silver horns), raw brass, king 3B plus..?
-Should I buy a new horn and keep my old one? Maybe sell it if I stop playing it entirely? Should I trade? Sell the horn for a good price and buy a rare silver plated horn out in the ether somewhere?
Would love your general musings/input.
Here's my dilemma. I have a silver plated (not sterling) 1978 king 3b forn with an F attachment. it's a lovely sounding instrument and i got it for a great price, $900. I'm thinking I could sell it for around $2k?
What I hate about this horn is the maintenance. I never really use the F attachment as much as i thought since I stopped playing in the community orchestra. I'd occasionally use it in my brass band but not really enough to justify it. But I do love my horn. You can love things that piss you off.
I'm a stickler for cleaning/polishing my instrument. I only really enjoy it when it sounds at its best. I know I would be more encouraged to play it more often if the maintenance was easier.
I want a horn without an F attachment. However:
-silver plated trombones are hard to find!
-I'd be fairly indecisive if I wanted to get a sterling horn (i love silver horns), raw brass, king 3B plus..?
-Should I buy a new horn and keep my old one? Maybe sell it if I stop playing it entirely? Should I trade? Sell the horn for a good price and buy a rare silver plated horn out in the ether somewhere?
Would love your general musings/input.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
First, I doubt you would be able to get $2000 for a King 3BF that is not SilverSonic (sterling bell).
Silver plated horns are available, although they are not as popular as lacquer. If you look hard you should be able to find a silver plated instrument. They seem to be popular among US High School bands in the South.
You might be able to swap your 3B-F for a 3B straight. You may lose some money in the swap -- straight 3Bs usually sell for a little less than 3B-Fs. But it's not always the case. There was a time when 3B-F trombones sold for less than straight 3B trombones.
Good luck.
Silver plated horns are available, although they are not as popular as lacquer. If you look hard you should be able to find a silver plated instrument. They seem to be popular among US High School bands in the South.
You might be able to swap your 3B-F for a 3B straight. You may lose some money in the swap -- straight 3Bs usually sell for a little less than 3B-Fs. But it's not always the case. There was a time when 3B-F trombones sold for less than straight 3B trombones.
Good luck.
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
Might want to look into a 2b, silver plated 2bs are a lot more common and you could still keep your 3b to fill a different roll if needed. Or even cheaper, a conn 4h
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
From what i've found online, there are a few silver plated horns but they're pricer than sterling. Maybe it's becauese the only ones I can find are brand new, and there's plenty of used sterling out there.
I've listened to some demos and i like the fullness that a sterling horn can offer. I wouldn't mind the sterling over the plated at this point.
What do you think my horn would sell for? It's in excellent condition.
I've listened to some demos and i like the fullness that a sterling horn can offer. I wouldn't mind the sterling over the plated at this point.
What do you think my horn would sell for? It's in excellent condition.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
If you'd prefer a straight 3B, then go ahead - plenty out there from which to choose!
But I don't quite understand
[quote="leafylief"]What I hate about this horn is the maintenance.[/quote]
vs
...when you're considering another silver plated instrument, any of which are going to require more-or-less the same polishing routine. (Solid sterling Kings are lacquered IIRC - someone will correct me if that's wrong.) Beyond that, what's the onerous maintenance issue? A 3BF valve should require relatively minimal attention - if it's constantly problematic, it's crying out for a service.
But I don't quite understand
[quote="leafylief"]What I hate about this horn is the maintenance.[/quote]
vs
I'm a stickler for cleaning/polishing my instrument.
...when you're considering another silver plated instrument, any of which are going to require more-or-less the same polishing routine. (Solid sterling Kings are lacquered IIRC - someone will correct me if that's wrong.) Beyond that, what's the onerous maintenance issue? A 3BF valve should require relatively minimal attention - if it's constantly problematic, it's crying out for a service.
- deanmccarty
- Posts: 224
- Joined: May 01, 2018
If you like the sound you get from the 3b... get a good tech to convert it to a straight horn for you. I’ve done that before and they did it at no cost as long as they got to keep the rotor section... that will be your cheapest option, and, it doesn’t take that long.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
You won't be able to get $2k for a 1978 king 3BF unless you want to feel guilty about tricking someone who doesn't know better.
Some conundrums:
1. You hate maintenance but you love polishing silver...
2. You sometimes use your F attachment, but feel like you need to justify it to keep it. The 3BF F attachment is one of the least intrusive F attachments available. If you don't use it you can nearly forget it's there.
3. You love silver, hate maintenance, but are considering getting a raw brass horn...
Anyways, I'd keep the 3BF. You said you like it.
Some conundrums:
1. You hate maintenance but you love polishing silver...
2. You sometimes use your F attachment, but feel like you need to justify it to keep it. The 3BF F attachment is one of the least intrusive F attachments available. If you don't use it you can nearly forget it's there.
3. You love silver, hate maintenance, but are considering getting a raw brass horn...
Anyways, I'd keep the 3BF. You said you like it.
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
[quote="deanmccarty"]If you like the sound you get from the 3b... get a good tech to convert it to a straight horn for you. I’ve done that before and they did it at no cost as long as they got to keep the rotor section... that will be your cheapest option, and, it doesn’t take that long.[/quote]
I don't mind polishing. It can be fun. Getting around all the corners of the closed wraps can be tedious. If it was a straight horn I wouldn't mind it.
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.
I don't mind polishing. It can be fun. Getting around all the corners of the closed wraps can be tedious. If it was a straight horn I wouldn't mind it.
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.
- Nobbi
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Nov 11, 2020
[quote="Andre1966tr"]Of all options this was the worst...IMO[/quote]
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
[quote="Nobbi"]<QUOTE author="Andre1966tr" post_id="137720" time="1611045723" user_id="7025">
Of all options this was the worst...IMO[/quote]
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.
</QUOTE>
Why?
Of all options this was the worst...IMO[/quote]
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.
</QUOTE>
Why?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="JCBone"]<QUOTE author="Nobbi" post_id="137723" time="1611046472" user_id="10600">
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.[/quote]
Why?
</QUOTE>
Lot of time, effort, and money to hack apart a functional 3B when there are zillions upon zillions built that way just waiting out there.
I totally agree .... I'd rather buy a second but fitting horn than ripping one apart! Complete no go for me.[/quote]
Why?
</QUOTE>
Lot of time, effort, and money to hack apart a functional 3B when there are zillions upon zillions built that way just waiting out there.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Got to agree having it chopped was not the best imho, you could have contacted DJ and just bought a straight 3b bell section.......
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
The reason to spend money to remove it is "I don't use it that much". Not "it's too heavy" or "I tried a straight 3B and it was better".
I don't get it :(
Is there something else you don't like about it?
I don't get it :(
Is there something else you don't like about it?
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="Burgerbob"]Lot of time, effort, and money to hack apart a functional 3B when there are zillions upon zillions built that way just waiting out there.[/quote]
... and if you're obsessive about polishing etc, you're not going to enjoy a new (presumably not silver plated) gooseneck and all the solder marks/unplated spots left behind after removing the F wrap bracing.
Seriously, just buy a 3B (bell or whole) rather than unnecessarily hacking up a perfectly good instrument.
... and if you're obsessive about polishing etc, you're not going to enjoy a new (presumably not silver plated) gooseneck and all the solder marks/unplated spots left behind after removing the F wrap bracing.
Seriously, just buy a 3B (bell or whole) rather than unnecessarily hacking up a perfectly good instrument.
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
This forum is chock-full of posts on threads where people have lamented over selling a horn and then wishing they had it back. I'll add my voice to that chorus.
- LeoInFL
- Posts: 252
- Joined: Apr 19, 2018
I recall an older thread somewhere on this forum where a member made their 3BF convertible. I can't remember whose hardware they ending up using but it turned out well. This way, you keep the versatility of adding the attachment as needed and still have your silver plated bell section. If you don't mind a yellow brass gooseneck/neckpipe, I'm sure there are plenty of semi-trashed 3B's out there to use a a donor.
- Vegastokc
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Jun 15, 2018
[quote="LeoInFL"]I recall an older thread somewhere on this forum where a member made their 3BF convertible. I can't remember whose hardware they ending up using but it turned out well. This way, you keep the versatility of adding the attachment as needed and still have your silver plated bell section. If you don't mind a yellow brass gooseneck/neckpipe, I'm sure there are plenty of semi-trashed 3B's out there to use a a donor.[/quote]
I second this.
If I was going to spend the the time and money to cut up an F-attachment, I would definitely try to go convertible.
This sounds like the best option - other that just buying a 3B bell - that would create a high level of flexibility.
(Well, until the part called for a large bore... :shuffle: )
Maybe a 606 could be a donor :idk:
I second this.
If I was going to spend the the time and money to cut up an F-attachment, I would definitely try to go convertible.
This sounds like the best option - other that just buying a 3B bell - that would create a high level of flexibility.
(Well, until the part called for a large bore... :shuffle: )
Maybe a 606 could be a donor :idk:
- jbeatenbough
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Dec 13, 2019
There is a nice silver plated 2b in the Instruments Classified by wafeki (I'm surprised nobody has grabbed it yet - it is a nice horn at a good price)... keep the 3bf and add the 2b. That way when you decide to play in the orchestra and the jazz band you'll have them both covered.
- RConrad
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 17, 2018
[quote="jbeatenbough"]There is a nice silver plated 2b in the Instruments Classified by wafeki (I'm surprised nobody has grabbed it yet - it is a nice horn at a good price)... keep the 3bf and add the 2b. That way when you decide to play in the orchestra and the jazz band you'll have them both covered.[/quote]
I think either doing this or just getting a straight 3b bell section/second 3b would have been good options. Having a second horn is always nice.
I think either doing this or just getting a straight 3b bell section/second 3b would have been good options. Having a second horn is always nice.
- MagnumH
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mar 06, 2020
I'll add my voice to chorus, unhelpful though it may be at this stage - I don't think that removing the F section from a 3BF was a great shout, compared to buying a straight 3B bell section. But since it's already with your tech, if you trust him I'd suggest giving him a call and ask if it's possible to make it convertible.
For all that, I picked up an '80s 3BF in perfect playing condition a few months ago for just about $400, so it's definitely possible, with a little eBay lurking and hanging around the classifieds here, to pick up a 3B bell section or full 3B for around that price or better. As others have said, you can always check in with DJ Kennedy for a full menu of used King sections.
For all that, I picked up an '80s 3BF in perfect playing condition a few months ago for just about $400, so it's definitely possible, with a little eBay lurking and hanging around the classifieds here, to pick up a 3B bell section or full 3B for around that price or better. As others have said, you can always check in with DJ Kennedy for a full menu of used King sections.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
:roll:
:roll:
- MagnumH
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mar 06, 2020
[quote="Thrawn22"]Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Right on cue as always!
Right on cue as always!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
- Conn100HGuy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Oct 22, 2018
Glad to see you still have the 3BFsp, Leif. I've always wondered if it ended up in the right hands, and from the gist of this thread, it did!
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="137768" time="1611075991" user_id="3709">
Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
</QUOTE>
I assume you are being sarcastic.
Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
</QUOTE>
I assume you are being sarcastic.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="JCBone"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="137783" time="1611086589" user_id="3642">
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck[/quote]
I assume you are being sarcastic.
</QUOTE>
Yes
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck[/quote]
I assume you are being sarcastic.
</QUOTE>
Yes
- Hobart
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sep 15, 2019
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="137768" time="1611075991" user_id="3709">
Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
</QUOTE>
I think the Holton Monster would be a better valve to put on.
Take the valve off and have a straight neckpipe pit on.[/quote]
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck
</QUOTE>
I think the Holton Monster would be a better valve to put on.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Hobart"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="137783" time="1611086589" user_id="3642">
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck[/quote]
I think the Holton Monster would be a better valve to put on.
</QUOTE>
Yes, the decommissioned land mine!
Then, have a thayer valve put onto the gooseneck[/quote]
I think the Holton Monster would be a better valve to put on.
</QUOTE>
Yes, the decommissioned land mine!
- deanmccarty
- Posts: 224
- Joined: May 01, 2018
[quote="leafylief"]
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.[/quote]
I’m glad I could help you with that... I don’t understand the negative feedback you are getting from your decision, and my advice though. You have a horn you like, except for the rotor section that you don’t use. You won’t get what you want out of the horn, so why not convert it to what you want??? I know many people who have done the same thing. As for making it convertible... the whole thing is that you don’t want the rotor... so why spend the extra money for something that you will put in the closet to collect dust.
I think you will be pleased with your “new” horn in a couple of weeks. Congratulations!
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.[/quote]
I’m glad I could help you with that... I don’t understand the negative feedback you are getting from your decision, and my advice though. You have a horn you like, except for the rotor section that you don’t use. You won’t get what you want out of the horn, so why not convert it to what you want??? I know many people who have done the same thing. As for making it convertible... the whole thing is that you don’t want the rotor... so why spend the extra money for something that you will put in the closet to collect dust.
I think you will be pleased with your “new” horn in a couple of weeks. Congratulations!
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
[quote="Elow"]If you do take the valve off, ill buy it[/quote]
Great. I offered it to the shop, they didn't want it. I'm sure i'll have some leftover silver plated piping as well. Make me an offer?
Great. I offered it to the shop, they didn't want it. I'm sure i'll have some leftover silver plated piping as well. Make me an offer?
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
[quote="Conn100HGuy"]Glad to see you still have the 3BFsp, Leif. I've always wondered if it ended up in the right hands, and from the gist of this thread, it did![/quote]
Hey! Wow! Great to hear from you. I was thinking about you the other day when i was contemplating selling this. Taking off the rotary valve is the right decision. I do love this horn dearly. I've got an ambitious EDM brass project I'm going to work on this summer.
Like i was saying earlier, I've thought of getting a sterling, but in the meantime, I'll always love my 3BSP.
How the heck are you??
Hey! Wow! Great to hear from you. I was thinking about you the other day when i was contemplating selling this. Taking off the rotary valve is the right decision. I do love this horn dearly. I've got an ambitious EDM brass project I'm going to work on this summer.
Like i was saying earlier, I've thought of getting a sterling, but in the meantime, I'll always love my 3BSP.
How the heck are you??
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
[quote="deanmccarty"]<QUOTE author="leafylief" post_id="137648" time="1611008760" user_id="11192">
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.[/quote]
I’m glad I could help you with that... I don’t understand the negative feedback you are getting from your decision, and my advice though. You have a horn you like, except for the rotor section that you don’t use. You won’t get what you want out of the horn, so why not convert it to what you want??? I know many people who have done the same thing. As for making it convertible... the whole thing is that you don’t want the rotor... so why spend the extra money for something that you will put in the closet to collect dust.
I think you will be pleased with your “new” horn in a couple of weeks. Congratulations!
</QUOTE>
None of the "negative feedback" where bad options or opinions. I had considered all of them: buying a new bell, getting a SP 2B, getting a sterling, etc.
Turns out the conversion is $250. Not free, but cheaper than pretty much any other option.
We went over all the plating, and came up with a great strategy so that there will be no lacquered spots and no lacking silver. One of the pipe soldiers will be removed and replaced with a 2nd brace under the counter weight. the thumb trigger will remain in place and be a nice brace for my thumb (it won't move however) so its piping will remain, And one final spot will have the pipe replaced completely. So no sore eye spots, all silver plating will remain in tact.
So this was the cheapest option with lowest risk to retain a horn I love and make it all the more useful for me.
I do appreciate everyone's two cents. I'll post back with an update. Should be getting the horn back in 10 days or so.
I ended up taking Dean's advice and I'm getting the F attachment removed. Just dropped it off at the shop. That feels like the right decision. I didn't even know that was an option!
excited to play my "new" horn in a few weeks. Thanks for the help/feedback. Always good to have a sounding board.[/quote]
I’m glad I could help you with that... I don’t understand the negative feedback you are getting from your decision, and my advice though. You have a horn you like, except for the rotor section that you don’t use. You won’t get what you want out of the horn, so why not convert it to what you want??? I know many people who have done the same thing. As for making it convertible... the whole thing is that you don’t want the rotor... so why spend the extra money for something that you will put in the closet to collect dust.
I think you will be pleased with your “new” horn in a couple of weeks. Congratulations!
</QUOTE>
None of the "negative feedback" where bad options or opinions. I had considered all of them: buying a new bell, getting a SP 2B, getting a sterling, etc.
Turns out the conversion is $250. Not free, but cheaper than pretty much any other option.
We went over all the plating, and came up with a great strategy so that there will be no lacquered spots and no lacking silver. One of the pipe soldiers will be removed and replaced with a 2nd brace under the counter weight. the thumb trigger will remain in place and be a nice brace for my thumb (it won't move however) so its piping will remain, And one final spot will have the pipe replaced completely. So no sore eye spots, all silver plating will remain in tact.
So this was the cheapest option with lowest risk to retain a horn I love and make it all the more useful for me.
I do appreciate everyone's two cents. I'll post back with an update. Should be getting the horn back in 10 days or so.
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
The Job took forever. But it was worth it. Horn sounds better!
If someone wants to buy the F attachment with pipes lemme know.
If someone wants to buy the F attachment with pipes lemme know.
- Conn100HGuy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Oct 22, 2018
Hey Lief, could you post a picture of the finished product?
- leafylief
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Jan 18, 2021
[quote="Conn100HGuy"]Hey Lief, could you post a picture of the finished product?[/quote]
Here you go. So the tech made an error. He put the wrong brace on, on purpose, he said after 3 orders he couldn't find the right one. another tech at another shop did, using the same supplier. And of course it wasn't flush so he just doused it in solder. So it looked like shit, I took it to another shop, got the right brace, but then there was all this solder.
I checked all over the country to find a replater, it was very difficult to find cheaply, so my trusted tech back in Oregon (i'm in new mexico now) just told me how to clean the solder off. It stripped some of the plating, but overall it doesn't bother me too much.
It sounds/plays better than ever though!
Here you go. So the tech made an error. He put the wrong brace on, on purpose, he said after 3 orders he couldn't find the right one. another tech at another shop did, using the same supplier. And of course it wasn't flush so he just doused it in solder. So it looked like shit, I took it to another shop, got the right brace, but then there was all this solder.
I checked all over the country to find a replater, it was very difficult to find cheaply, so my trusted tech back in Oregon (i'm in new mexico now) just told me how to clean the solder off. It stripped some of the plating, but overall it doesn't bother me too much.
It sounds/plays better than ever though!
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="leafylief"]So the tech made an error.[/quote]
It looks like the gooseneck was installed upside down (curves away from the bell, not toward it as it should be), and the resulting angle via the receiver/bell brace then puts the bell angle way off-center relative to the tuning slide. But if you're happy with it, probably not worth re-doing at this stage.
It looks like the gooseneck was installed upside down (curves away from the bell, not toward it as it should be), and the resulting angle via the receiver/bell brace then puts the bell angle way off-center relative to the tuning slide. But if you're happy with it, probably not worth re-doing at this stage.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Yeah, that horn is all out of whack, alignment wise. The centerline of the bell doesn't match the centerline of the top side of the tuning slide, and the slide looks too close to the bell, and yes, it looks like the neck pipe is reversed. I think this is why you had so much feedback against major surgery - there's just so much that can go wrong. You took a $1200 horn and paid money to make it into a badly assembled $700 horn.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The bell throat is quite bent, too. Yeah, it is a bit of a mess, but this is not a huge or expensive job for a more experienced tech. It is a matter of dissembling and assembling correctly. :good: