Butler Screw Bell Question

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-01-19 12:32 p.m.

I'm considering picking up a Butler JJ model, and I'm looking at the screw bell option for travel convenience and tone focus benefits. My question is one of balance. I'd like to get the bling (gold plate), but the default bell ring cannot be plated, as it is aluminum. If they use brass for the ring instead, I'm a bit concerned about disturbing the horn's balance, as brass is around 3x as dense as aluminum. What say ye? Legitimate concern, or fugget about it?

Splendour · by **Splendour** » 2021-01-20 1:48 p.m.

Aluminum can be anodized in a variety of colours, including gold.

Samdance · by **Samdance** » 2021-01-20 2:22 p.m.

I have a Butler. They are already slide heavy so putting weight on the bell with a brass ring might be a significant issue.

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-01-20 3:06 p.m.

[quote="Splendour"]Aluminum can be anodized in a variety of colours, including gold.[/quote]

I hadn't considered anodizing as a possible option. I'll check with David to see if they can offer that. Thanks!

[quote="Samdance"]I have a Butler. They are already slide heavy so putting weight on the bell with a brass ring might be a significant issue.[/quote]

That is great feedback. I haven't put hands on one, so I wasn't sure how much of an issue it might be. Thanks!

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-01-20 3:10 p.m.

Even on an all-brass horn, a brass ring adds a significant weight exactly where you don't want it (way out to the left and forward). I'd love a lighter option. On a carbon fiber horn, I imagine it would be exacerbated.

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-01-20 3:19 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Even on an all-brass horn, a brass ring adds a significant weight exactly where you don't want it (way out to the left and forward). I'd love a lighter option. On a carbon fiber horn, I imagine it would be exacerbated.[/quote]

If anodized aluminum isn't an option (I'll relay David's response on that question), do you think a counterweight at the tuning slide would help? I'm less concerned with overall weight than balance, given that these are so light to begin with. But, you raise a good point with regard to where the weight is - not only front, but left of center. Seems the slide probably shifts balance to right of center on these, so maybe that axis is less of an issue in this case. Thanks for the thoughts.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-01-20 3:54 p.m.

I think counterweight will help, but yes, having it pull so far to the left is the worst part.

Peacemate · by **Peacemate** » 2021-01-20 3:59 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]I think counterweight will help, but yes, having it pull so far to the left is the worst part.[/quote]

The weight to the left might just make it have a more normal lean, even if not proportional to the overall weight of the horn.

Of course, it probably won't be as comfortably light.

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-01-25 12:09 p.m.

I received a response from Dave clarifying the options to address the weight/balance concern. Apparently, anodized aluminum is an option, which would keep the weight essentially the same at their standard screw bell ring. Another option is black delrin, which is even lighter than aluminum. The latter is the option I'm going to pursue, and I'll update here in a few months when I've had a chance to play on the finished product.

Peacemate · by **Peacemate** » 2021-01-25 12:20 p.m.

I'm consistently impressed by the weight savings in the trombone industry. Delrin is one sixth as dense as brass, and about half as dense as aluminum.

Definitely interested to hear how Delrin holds up in this use case.

RobH · by **RobH** » 2021-04-10 9:32 p.m.

Brass rings have been used on regular brass trombones so I can't imagine that the weight differential will be overly significant. Black derlin sounds like a great option with the gloss option, but I would be concerned about mis-threading the screw threads.

I ordered my JJ with gold plated brass rings <EMOJI seq="1f642" tseq="1f642">🙂</EMOJI>

muschem · by **muschem** » 2021-10-06 11:33 a.m.

My Butler JJ build came in the mail this morning. I haven't given it a thorough test drive yet, but in terms of balance, the delrin choice turned out great. Beyond being unbelievably light overall, the balance is wonderful... the bell ring doesn't pull balance to the left at all. I suppose time will tell on the durability of the threads, but I haven't run into any issues with my DE lexan rims (different material, I know... but closest comparison I could think of), and I've had at least one of those for more than 20 years now.

I'll post some pics of the delrin ring when I have a chance. I'm sure the gloss option would have looked nice as well, but I went with the matte finish. Paired with the gold plate on the metal parts, I think it looks pretty sharp.

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Butler Screw Bell Question