Is there an easy way to add counter weight to trigger section?

dbwhitaker · by **dbwhitaker** » 2021-01-22 12:46 p.m.

I just acquired a single trigger bass trombone and it feels a little bit front heavy. I'd like to try adding a little bit of weight somewhere in order to balance the horn. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good and/or easy way to to this? One of the small cross braces in the F tubing seems like a good candidate to hold a little weight.

Peacemate · by **Peacemate** » 2021-01-22 12:49 p.m.

Easiest way would be tape and a rock, but most reasonable would be a counterweight on the tuning slide brace.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2021-01-22 1:32 p.m.

Easy? Fill it with water.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-01-22 1:39 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Easy? Fill it with water.[/quote]

Kinda make it tough to play trigger notes, though :tongue: And you lose some of that weight if you trip the trigger :evil:

I vote for the brace on the tuning slide (if you have one). If the tuning slide has no brace (or it's a TIS horn with no brace in the back loop) an arrangement like the Rath trombones might work: a pipe hanger with a block of metal attached. You need about 8-10 ounces of weight (12 if its TIS).

Hobart · by **Hobart** » 2021-01-22 1:42 p.m.

Depending on the model, like an F-attachment tenor, you could add a counterweight to one of the braces on the main tuning slide like a straight horn. If it is a particularly unusual bass, however, this may be difficult, and you may need to seek alternative options.

Elow · by **Elow** » 2021-01-22 2:00 p.m.

Do you want it permanently?

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2021-01-22 2:43 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]I vote for the brace on the tuning slide (if you have one). If the tuning slide has no brace (or it's a TIS horn with no brace in the back loop) an arrangement like the Rath trombones might work: a pipe hanger with a block of metal attached. You need about 8-10 ounces of weight (12 if its TIS).[/quote]

Might be a little on the high side - the standard King/Bach/Conn weights are all in the 6-7 oz range. Anyway, you can always tie a plastic bag to the tuning slide brace and add/remove coins to test exactly what weight you'd like, then find or make a proper weight accordingly.

Bear in mind that weight does weird things depending on placement - sometimes good, sometimes bad. I made a nice weight for my 44H to improve the balance (making the 1/2'' diagonal channel shredded the gearbox of my cheapo milling machine in the process :biggrin: ) only to find that I much preferred the instrument's response without. So I put up with the balance as is.

Conversely, a little extra weight on my early Rath R1 changed the high Eb from almost non-existent to pretty decent. So that stays, even though the instrument is now very slightly back heavy.

All of which to say - you might end up preferring a Neotech/Bullet Brace/other instead of mass. Good luck!

<ATTACHMENT filename="44H weight.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~44H weight.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2021-01-22 3:06 p.m.

back of the F tuning slide of my open wrap 60H.

Chris

olivegreenink · by **olivegreenink** » 2021-01-22 4:43 p.m.

Not sure if your situation would work like mine. But I simply got a weighted tuning slide from the straight horn equivalent. Now I have two tuning slides. If that’s a possibility for your horn, that may rank up there highly as an “easy” solution.

Cheers

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-01-22 6:17 p.m.

A common hand brace worked wonders for me. I now have one on every horn - even my small bore. It's amazing, the difference.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-01-22 6:18 p.m.

[quote="ArbanRubank"]A common hand brace worked wonders for me. I now have one on every horn - even my small bore. It's amazing, the difference.[/quote]

Best bet is to have both on an unbalanced horn- counterweight and brace.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-01-22 7:39 p.m.

[quote="ArbanRubank"]A common hand brace worked wonders for me. I now have one on every horn - even my small bore. It's amazing, the difference.[/quote]

What is a "common hand brace?" I think I need something to support my aging shoulder / wrist when I'm hefting a bass trombone (even a single-valve). I need something functional and affordable.

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-01-22 7:50 p.m.

This is what saved my left hand and to some extent, my left shoulder. The other thing that is helping my left shoulder is to keep it very relaxed.

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/13850327-new-ol ... WFEALw_wcB">https://reverb.com/item/13850327-new-old-stock-neotech-trombone-grip?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=6445914844&utm_content=campaignid=6445914844_adgroupid=82656632368_productpartitionid=831180678444=merchantid=101350796_productid=13850327_keyword=_device=c_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=391716654875&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjKqABhDLARIsABbJrGk0QD5K3aKaPBStofCCMQiwKZ1u9zK0mhNonb2HHUHoeU_rrtYIhn4aAkWFEALw_wcB</LINK_TEXT>

I bought mine from Amazon, but I didn't want to make a link to that site public, because it might have my information on it. I have never bought anything off Reverb, so that should be generic. They are on eBay, Musician's Friend and I suppose a decent music store.

Peacemate · by **Peacemate** » 2021-01-22 8:38 p.m.

Yamaha hand strap is also common. I think leather specialties also makes them in a few sizes, and maybe some more.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2021-01-22 8:43 p.m.

[quote="Peacemate"]Yamaha hand strap is also common. I think leather specialties also makes them in a few sizes, and maybe some more.[/quote]

The leather specialties is the best starting place for any grip aid, IMO.

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-01-22 8:44 p.m.

[quote="Peacemate"]Yamaha hand strap is also common. I think leather specialties also makes them in a few sizes, and maybe some more.[/quote]

I tried it and didn't like it nearly as well as the other hand grip I listed.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-01-22 10:23 p.m.

[quote="ArbanRubank"]<QUOTE author="Peacemate" post_id="138217" time="1611365916" user_id="9017">
Yamaha hand strap is also common. I think leather specialties also makes them in a few sizes, and maybe some more.[/quote]

I tried it and didn't like it nearly as well as the other hand grip I listed.
</QUOTE>

Did you try & dislike the Yamaha or the Leather Specialties grip? Or both?

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-01-22 10:32 p.m.

Yamaha.

sf105 · by **sf105** » 2021-01-23 9:37 a.m.

Old mouthpiece and electrical tape. Both in plentiful supply, and reversible.

Peacemate · by **Peacemate** » 2021-01-23 12:25 p.m.

[quote="ArbanRubank"]<QUOTE author="Peacemate" post_id="138217" time="1611365916" user_id="9017">
Yamaha hand strap is also common. I think leather specialties also makes them in a few sizes, and maybe some more.[/quote]

I tried it and didn't like it nearly as well as the other hand grip I listed.
</QUOTE>

I also use the Neotech on my 42B, and it does feel great. I don't personally use any of the other straps, but I have a friend who uses the Yamaha.

Just wanted to make people aware of their existence.

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2021-01-23 12:30 p.m.

Thrashed to death before, at least once :good:

~~[url]~~https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13454

Cheers.

JCBone · by **JCBone** » 2021-01-23 1:43 p.m.

[quote="Peacemate"]<QUOTE author="ArbanRubank" post_id="138219" time="1611366287" user_id="4907">

I tried it and didn't like it nearly as well as the other hand grip I listed.[/quote]

I also use the Neotech on my 42B, and it does feel great. I don't personally use any of the other straps, but I have a friend who uses the Yamaha.

Just wanted to make people aware of their existence.
</QUOTE>
I used that for a while and I found that it just makes my wrist hurt. I don't use amy grips now.

dbwhitaker · by **dbwhitaker** » 2021-01-31 5:08 p.m.

Thanks for all...I mean most of the replies. :) I don't think I can fit a standard counter weight on this horn. It's a Yamaha 321 and there is very little distance between main tuning slide brace and the F tubing -- I don't think a standard counterweight will fit. (I notice that the generic weight for sale from Hickey's explicitly lists one model that it does not fit: Yamaha YBL-322.) I hadn't considered using a hand brace instead but that seems like a good idea, and probably all that I really need.

I had a Neogrip lying around so I gave that a try but after attempting to adjust the angle of the handle the screw hole is stripped and the handle won't stay together. (I had previously tried to use the Neogrip with my Bach 50B2 and Holton TR-180 but I couldn't get it to fit well. Maybe it's just my hand - my thumb moves in an unusual angle due to some nerve damage. The folded over velcro portion of the handle seems like its on the wrong side of the handle -- the added thickness gets in the way of moving my thumb.) I put a Rath hand brace on 50B2 last week and I really like it so far. I'll probably get another one for my Yamaha even though the Rath is a little pricey.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-03-09 4:31 p.m.

I've had 3 YBL 321's over the years and I have always found them to be a very well balanced horn. I think you are right a hand brace is what you need and by the sound of it maybe try the leather Specialities one to start with?... Doug

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2022-03-09 4:42 p.m.

Or, try a Wise grip. I found that it moved my hand forward slightly, moving the center of gravity rearward.

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Is there an easy way to add counter weight to trigger section?