Dennis Wick Mouthpiece Lead Warning
- tctb
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Apr 04, 2018
My new Dennis Wick mouthpiece came with a lead warning from the state of California . Should I be worried or are all mouthpieces the same?
- mearldanner
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Nov 14, 2018
From Wikipedia:
Lead content in brass is supposed to help machineability.
"In October 1999 the California State Attorney General sued 13 key manufacturers and distributors over lead content. In laboratory tests, state researchers found the average brass key, new or old, exceeded the California Proposition 65 limits by an average factor of 19, assuming handling twice a day.[13] In April 2001 manufacturers agreed to reduce lead content to 1.5%, or face a requirement to warn consumers about lead content. Keys plated with other metals are not affected by the settlement, and may continue to use brass alloys with higher percentage of lead content."
I would assume any plating would negate this. They're talking about house keys.
Lead content in brass is supposed to help machineability.
"In October 1999 the California State Attorney General sued 13 key manufacturers and distributors over lead content. In laboratory tests, state researchers found the average brass key, new or old, exceeded the California Proposition 65 limits by an average factor of 19, assuming handling twice a day.[13] In April 2001 manufacturers agreed to reduce lead content to 1.5%, or face a requirement to warn consumers about lead content. Keys plated with other metals are not affected by the settlement, and may continue to use brass alloys with higher percentage of lead content."
I would assume any plating would negate this. They're talking about house keys.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Most mouthpieces use a brass alloy that has 2% lead in it. It makes it easier to machine.
RoHS rules state that you have to divulge if the bulk of your material has over a certain percentage of hazardous materials (1000 PPM for some or 100 PPM for others).
Your chance of getting lead poisoning from a mouthpiece with intact plating is nearly zero. If there is no plating on the mouthpiece (bare brass) you would have to have it on your face for hours a day year in and year out to get a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.
RoHS rules state that you have to divulge if the bulk of your material has over a certain percentage of hazardous materials (1000 PPM for some or 100 PPM for others).
Your chance of getting lead poisoning from a mouthpiece with intact plating is nearly zero. If there is no plating on the mouthpiece (bare brass) you would have to have it on your face for hours a day year in and year out to get a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Denis makes all his mouthpieces in the UK, don't worry about it
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Nothing has changed.
California has had that requirement for years.
Brass has always had a small amount of lead in it. Even "lead free" brass has some, just a smaller amount. I think Yamaha has switched to it. I would if it was available, but so far I haven't been able to buy it in the sizes I use.
Considering how much direct contact I have with raw brass, one of these days I'm going to get tested just to see if it"s any actual concern at all - but I don't think it is.
California has had that requirement for years.
Brass has always had a small amount of lead in it. Even "lead free" brass has some, just a smaller amount. I think Yamaha has switched to it. I would if it was available, but so far I haven't been able to buy it in the sizes I use.
Considering how much direct contact I have with raw brass, one of these days I'm going to get tested just to see if it"s any actual concern at all - but I don't think it is.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -
[quote="BGuttman"]a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.[/quote]
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.
[quote="BGuttman"]a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.[/quote]
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="tctb"]My new Dennis Wick mouthpiece came with a lead warning from the state of California . Should I be worried or are all mouthpieces the same?[/quote]
Just so it's clear, any brass (with a tiny amount of lead) is under a layer of silver plate, and possibly gold plate over that as well. Unless all the silver plate has been lost where you contact the mouthpiece, you won't even touch the brass.
Just so it's clear, any brass (with a tiny amount of lead) is under a layer of silver plate, and possibly gold plate over that as well. Unless all the silver plate has been lost where you contact the mouthpiece, you won't even touch the brass.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="spencercarran"]Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -
<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="140849" time="1613488904" user_id="53">a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.[/quote]
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.
</QUOTE>
The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.
And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.
<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="140849" time="1613488904" user_id="53">a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.[/quote]
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.
</QUOTE>
The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.
And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]<QUOTE author="spencercarran" post_id="140891" time="1613510513" user_id="10390">
Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.[/quote]
The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.
And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.
</QUOTE>
I believe there have been several repair techs, brass mostly, that have been screened with NO significant levels of lead in their systems. Even after years of exposure through buffing, soldering, machining, etc.
So Me thinks it's a non-issue! Unless you directly ingest lead or lead containing products.
Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -
There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.
That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.[/quote]
The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.
And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.
</QUOTE>
I believe there have been several repair techs, brass mostly, that have been screened with NO significant levels of lead in their systems. Even after years of exposure through buffing, soldering, machining, etc.
So Me thinks it's a non-issue! Unless you directly ingest lead or lead containing products.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="Doug Elliott"]The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.[/quote]
As long as you're not eating your mouthpieces, probably not much!
As long as you're not eating your mouthpieces, probably not much!
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I can understand Doug's concern. He spends a lot of time machining the alloy and breathing in dust. That's way more exposure than it simply contacting skin.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Dust exposure while machining is more of a concern. Various respirators exist and are not, in the grand scheme of things, prohibitively expensive. If you were employing someone to do that sort of metalworking you would be legally required to provide suitable PPE.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
I asked my doctor to check my lead level. They said it was 4 and anything less than 20 is normal. And I work with lead many hours a day, every day.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
California's totally loopy Proposition 65 requires almost everything to be labeled as a threat to Californians "about their exposures to chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm" - and apparently life as we know it! I bought some things from Dillon Music (in New Jersey) last night, and noticed a Proposition 65 Notice on their Website (linked to the California Prop65 page).
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/
Apparently, even though Dillon is in New Jersey, they are obligated to warn all their customers, some of whom reside in California.
Here is the page that deals with "Lead and Lead Compounds":
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/chemical ... -compounds">https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/chemicals/lead-and-lead-compounds</LINK_TEXT>
Is the lead in plated brass mouthpieces - or brass instruments in general - a threat to your health and life?
Per California law - yes. Per any reputable scientist - NO!
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/
Apparently, even though Dillon is in New Jersey, they are obligated to warn all their customers, some of whom reside in California.
Here is the page that deals with "Lead and Lead Compounds":
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/chemical ... -compounds">https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/chemicals/lead-and-lead-compounds</LINK_TEXT>
Is the lead in plated brass mouthpieces - or brass instruments in general - a threat to your health and life?
Per California law - yes. Per any reputable scientist - NO!
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Here in the Golden State, almost every business has a Prop. 65 warning on the door, and a lot of things you buy have warnings on the label. They're so ubiquitous that people have become blind to them.
A lot of them are pretty vague, too:
Casting a rather wide net, eh?
A lot of them are pretty vague, too:
WARNING
This Facility Contains Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.
Such Chemicals Are Also Present In This Area And In Consumer Items and Other Products Sold Provided And Used Here.
Casting a rather wide net, eh?
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
[quote="JohnL"]Here in the Golden State, almost every business has a Prop. 65 warning on the door, and a lot of things you buy have warnings on the label. They're so ubiquitous that people have become blind to them.
A lot of them are pretty vague, too:
<QUOTE>WARNING
This Facility Contains Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.
Such Chemicals Are Also Present In This Area And In Consumer Items and Other Products Sold Provided And Used Here.[/quote]
Casting a rather wide net, eh?
</QUOTE>
I read that there only need to be a 1 out 100000 chance of getting cancer from something for it to be classified as "dangerous'.
A lot of them are pretty vague, too:
<QUOTE>WARNING
This Facility Contains Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.
Such Chemicals Are Also Present In This Area And In Consumer Items and Other Products Sold Provided And Used Here.[/quote]
Casting a rather wide net, eh?
</QUOTE>
I read that there only need to be a 1 out 100000 chance of getting cancer from something for it to be classified as "dangerous'.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
If you leave CA, the effects are lessened. Californians are simply more susceptible to cancer.
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
Apparently now they have warnings on coffee. Reminds me of how my grandmother used to claim that french presses somehow cause cancer.
- jph
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Jun 21, 2018
I think to be perfectly safe we should all wear two sets of suspenders, and a belt, when we play anywhere, too.
And a mask, while actively blowing into the mouthpiece.
Why take unnecessary chances!
And a mask, while actively blowing into the mouthpiece.
Why take unnecessary chances!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I recently bought some organic molasses that came with a prop65 warning on it, in whole foods.
I'm well aware that molasses is highly heated and chemically altered by that heat, and the Maillard reaction creates free radicals and carcinogens. But that's what makes food taste good. Guess we're all going to die from prop65.
It's one of those things where once you overuse it, you might as well not use it at all.
I'm well aware that molasses is highly heated and chemically altered by that heat, and the Maillard reaction creates free radicals and carcinogens. But that's what makes food taste good. Guess we're all going to die from prop65.
It's one of those things where once you overuse it, you might as well not use it at all.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
You'll also notice warnings for anything that contains vinyl, like a seat cover, or even a wallet etc. As long as you don't eat them, you should be fine. I remember seeing a warning on a piece of plastic molding I got to stick on my car.