Texas gets New England winter weather

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-16 10:28 a.m.

There has been a major snowstorm with single digit (Fahrenheit) temperatures in all of Texas (including Houston and San Antonio). This is unusually cold and the electrical system is having problems keeping up with the need for electricity for heaters.

Good luck to all our Texas friends (and any other Members affected by this cold snap). Keep warm (if possible) and be safe.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-02-16 11:14 a.m.

It's been a long time since the weather has been colder and more severe in Texas than in New Hampshire! :eek:

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2021-02-16 12:36 p.m.

It's pretty freakin cold!!!

Hasn't been this bad ever! But close when the stupid bowl was at Jerry's world about 10 years ago!!

And we have more snow coming!!!

Kingfan · by **Kingfan** » 2021-02-16 1:27 p.m.

I grew up in Cleveland, but lived in Texas for 20 years before I moved back. I can attest that the drivers (except those who spent time up north) don't know how to drive in the snow, and that problem is compounded by the lack of any snow plows or salt trucks to help clear the roads. They are having it bad, especially with the power outages.

AndrewMeronek · 2021-02-16 1:54 p.m.

Rare in Texas, but I can't believe it's unheard of. I remember reading about a cold spell in Texas in the 19th century that killed entire herds of cattle. :idk:

Edit:

Probably the 1886 blizzard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1886_blizzard

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-16 1:56 p.m.

I've never heard of it called "Jerry's World" before, but the Crowdboys stadium was a good choice for Stupid Bowl -- normally a nice place to visit in February. Real opposite of Green Bay.

North Central US gets that real cold winter. Even worse than New England.

But compared to Texas, we're experiencing Bikini Weather.

Glad you were able to check in, Eric.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2021-02-16 5:54 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]I've never heard of it called "Jerry's World" before, but the Crowdboys stadium was a good choice for Stupid Bowl -- normally a nice place to visit in February. Real opposite of Green Bay.

North Central US gets that real cold winter. Even worse than New England.

But compared to Texas, we're experiencing Bikini Weather.

Glad you were able to check in, Eric.[/quote]

Thanks Bruce!! We've been VERY fortunate to not have lost power at al during this mess!!

I think it might be because we're close to a wastewater pumping station and also our city Police station.

It really is an awesome stadium, and yes well suited for the spectacle...unless the weather decides to take a dump on us...

Thanks All!!

euphobone · by **euphobone** » 2021-02-16 9:58 p.m.

Cold, Cold, Cold. I am lucky, no power outage or water outages for me. Made a neat little snowman.
<ATTACHMENT filename="house and snow.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~house and snow.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="snowman.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~snowman.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2021-02-16 10:17 p.m.

I remember playing sousa in the snow in El Paso in... 2010 I think, bowl game Miami vs Notre Dame. Definitely weird to see heavy snow that far south.

Chicago's currently buried in snow and it's delightful, but our infrastructure is better prepared to keep (most of) us warm and safe.

tmarco97 · by **tmarco97** » 2021-02-16 10:42 p.m.

I live in the far southern part of Texas and I have friends who have been without power for two days at least now. It's definitely something unheard of here in my city and I'm lucky to have only lost power for 3 hours yesterday. Hope everyone is staying safe and warm!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-17 1:56 p.m.

This has been the most miserable week of my miserable life in miserable Texas.

The power is briefly on and briefly off now but it was off for two+ days straight. In the middle of Dallas!

No power... no heat!

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-02-17 6:36 p.m.

I really do not want to be in Boston when it is cold, but I really really would not want to be in Texas in the cold even if the heat was on. Almost everything is forced hot air, and those heated spaces always seem chilly, as if the body is radiating heat to the cold walls as fast as possible.

RConrad · by **RConrad** » 2021-02-18 1:37 a.m.

Hopefully anyone down in Texas stays safe. My only experience with Texas winter weather was when I played at the 1999 Cotton Bowl and during one of the practices ice started to form on my slide. Up here in Chicago I've dug my car out about 4 or 5 times now.

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2021-02-18 2:37 a.m.

[quote="euphobone"]Cold, Cold, Cold. I am lucky, no power outage or water outages for me. Made a neat little snowman.

house and snow.jpg

snowman.jpg[/quote]

From here this looks like a nice day of spring :-)

robcat2075 · 2021-02-18 12:45 p.m.

When this sort of thing happens in Switzerland you can do what you did last year because it usually happens every year and you knew you needed the stuff on hand to get through it. That's how it worked in Minnesota where I grew up.

But this spell is unlike anything I've seen in the 35+ years I have been in the Dallas area. Dallas has no snow plows because of the rarity of the need. It would be unworkable to buy and maintain a Chicago-style fleet of snow plows when the heavy snow that falls once every 10-20 years here is almost always gone by the afternoon or the next day at the latest.

They do have trucks to "brine" the streets but that only works in temps near the freezing point and we have been way below that for 4+ days.

It is harder to explain why the electric power plants in TX were being shut down just as the need for power was going up. I am confident our Texas Legislature will conduct a thorough fact-finding investigation, identify the corporate culprits, then bury that report and put out a press release blaming windmills and Antifa.

I am completely unsurprised that people burn their houses down trying to stay warm. The desperation when the temp drops below freezing in your house is enormous. Here are my feet trying to stay warm over a cluster of candles.

.
<ATTACHMENT filename="0215212134sm.jpg" index="2">~~[attachment=2]~~0215212134sm.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
.

That was successful enough that I decided to go big. This is 15 "St. Jude" votive candles per tray. 45 candles at once was enough to raise the room temp from 25° to 50°. With the tray keeping the wax in they would burn for 9 hours like that. But I'm not recommending it.

.
<ATTACHMENT filename="0216211703sm.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~0216211703sm.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

.

With no power, no computer, no internet and nothing else to do... I got my horn out. Trying to read music by candle light is nearly hopeless.

.
<ATTACHMENT filename="MusicbyCandlelight.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~MusicbyCandlelight.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

Even with the water faucets running continuously I still had two branches freeze and split. By dumb luck I had enough parts in my boxes of junk to quickly saw them off, cap them and turn the water back on. I imagine plumbers in Dallas are going to be rich after this event.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-18 12:56 p.m.

Somewhat reminds me of when I lived in Baltimore many years ago. We had a blizzard of 14 inches of snow. Maryland NEVER sees that much snow, even though it gets some during the winter. I had a neighbor from Pittsburgh and between us my kiddie snow shovel that I keep in my car got a lot of use. Again, Baltimore doesn't have a fleet of snow plows just because they rarely need them.

Keep warm and keep safe down there in Dixie!

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2021-02-18 2:13 p.m.

I don’t see what the problem is. Just head over to Cancun and wait it out on the beach. What’s so difficult?

signed Ted Cruz

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-18 4:13 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]I don’t see what the problem is. Just head over to Cancun and wait it out on the beach. What’s so difficult?

signed Ted Cruz[/quote]

Is that the Chris Christie solution? (New Jersey governor who closed the beaches and vacationed on one)

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2021-02-18 5:03 p.m.

<ATTACHMENT filename="Screenshot_20210219-064339.png" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~Screenshot_20210219-064339.png</ATTACHMENT>

As someone from Massachusetts (turned Alaska resident ten years ago), I can say that this is not really what a New England winter is like. I remember days every year where I physically could not throw the snow over the cliffs I had made on either side of my driveway shoveling because they were twelve feet high.

But ... as the snow continued falling and I cursed at the gigantic city plow blocking the end of my driveway with yet another wall of snow as it cleared my street, I did have a nice warm house to go back to with hot chocolate and soup, and my city was indeed doing a great job keeping the streets clear. This makes it even less like a New England winter -- the people in texas without power don't have that and I hope they are OK. 0 F is not cold when you have a nice coat and you want to be outside. It's ridiculously cold when you have no power and live in an area that should be warm.

This is an infrastructure and readiness problem, and that's horrible if it's 0 degrees F outside and you have no power in a house designed for nothing lower than 0 C.

I remember laughing at people (I didn't know better at age 23) for sliding all over the road and nearly crashing in NC after a snow fall of 2 inches. We would go drive out in AK with 6 inches of snow over a thick sheet of sheer ice. The snow was what actually made it "safe". My attitude is not the right answer though, because if you never encountered snowy conditions, you won't know how to drive in it and you'll crash, full stop.

I hope the power comes back on soon in Texas, and that this isn't a sign of even worse climate change to come!

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2021-02-18 6:22 p.m.

It’s amazing to me that the US can land a spacecraft on Mars but that people are freezing to death in Texas.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-18 7:18 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]It’s amazing to me that the US can land a spacecraft on Mars but that people are freezing to death in Texas.[/quote]

This is extremely unusual weather for Texas. It rarely gets very cold for more than a day or two and this freeze has gone on for a week. You don't usually build infrastructure for conditions that are unlikely to happen so a lot of the things common in the North (where it routinely gets very cold) are not compensated for.

It's comparable to having a heat wave with temperatures over 35 C in Europe (and one was going on there when we visited on our honeymoon -- fig trees in London were bearing fruit).

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-18 7:38 p.m.

The most lucid explanation I've read so far pinpoints two main causes of the trouble, one easily avoidable, one not-so-much.

It seems quite a few power plants were shut down for scheduled maintenance even after it was known that severely cold weather was on the way.

And then, when cold weather is here, the natural gas in the pipelines is prioritized to satisfy the increased demand for home and business heating, causing natural gas-fired power plants to shut down for lack of adequate fuel.

I was surprised to read that there is no on-site reserve of fuel for natural gas plants as there is for coal plants. They depend on the gas arriving at the right pressure at the right time from a pipeline hundreds or a thousand miles long.

Nat gas makes for nearly half the generation capacity in Texas so any gas supply trouble is a big problem.

My house is 100 years old with no insulation, no double glazed windows and no central heat (anymore). 0°F weather was going to be tough even with power on.

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2021-02-18 11:43 p.m.

As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.

This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.

As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.

Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !!

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2021-02-19 7:11 a.m.

I suspect some smaller gas lines froze up.

There's always a little moisture with the gas, that's why there's a drip leg at your regulator. If you have a low spot in the underground line water may collect there. It might not cause any problems in warm weather but if that freezes you may have trouble. Yes there's a reason I know this.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-02-19 9:30 a.m.

Keep an ear open for the power market situation in Texas. Recall how the Enron boys did one on California...

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2021-02-19 10:28 a.m.

[quote="CharlieB"]As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.

This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.

As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.

Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !![/quote]

Wind provides only about 15% of the electricity in Texas.

The natural gas generating stations shut down because the valves & gauges in the gas distribution system froze.

The entity controlling the power grid, ERCOT, has known for years that the grid needs hardening and upgrading to avoid this kind of calamity, but has chosen not to to keep the stock holders happy.

Fortunately, this kind of winter storm only happens every ten years or so. So common sense, yeah I know!!, should tell us to prepare for the next one!!

Just hoping I won't be living here for the next freeze!

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-02-19 11:10 a.m.

[quote="CharlieB"]~~[color=#0000BF]~~As I understand the Texas power situation, there was insufficient redundancy in the power grid to deal with the emergency loss of some of its generating capacity, caused at least in part by frozen windmills. The lack of redundancy was due to multiple power stations being shut down for repairs.

This emergency situation is the canary in the coal mine.

As we look forward to a new era of environmentally friendly electrical energy production via windmills, solar, etc., we are allowing our fossil fueled electrical infrastructure to deteriorate. We are attempting to satisfy an increasing demand for electricity with very old equipment, and a constant resistance to building new fossil fueled power stations.

Green energy is an environmental necessity to our future, but its full implementation will take time, and it needs to be phased in while assuring that the old system remains capable of reliably meeting an increasing electrical demand. This demand will include a very big elephant in the room called electric vehicles, which are about to add a gigantic load to the electrical grid. The electric power grid is the most important part of our infrastructure, and it needs the full attention of our leaders, who at present think that "infrastructure" means roads and bridges. We can survive with potholes in our roads, but we can't survive with unreliable electricity. Wake up, Washington !![/quote]

Per CBS News:

...the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which supplies about 90% of the state with its power, said Tuesday that wind power is responsible for just a fraction of the loss. Of the 45,000 megawatts of power offline during the peak, 30,000 megawatts stemmed from natural gas, while 16,000 megawatts were from wind turbines.

"Of the power shortfall that hit Texas, over 80% was due to problems at coal- and gas-fired plants," PolitiFact reported.

Experts say traditional energy sources, including coal and natural gas, performed below expectations, while wind power actually performed above expectations.

"Main story continues to be the failure of thermal power plants — natural gas, coal, and nuclear plants — which ERCOT counts on to be there when needed. They've failed," Princeton engineering professor Jesse Jenkins tweeted Tuesday. "Those of you who have heard that frozen wind turbines are to blame for this, think again. The extreme demand and thermal power plant outages are the principal cause."

Proponents of renewable energy blasted state officials for blaming the issue on turbines alone. ...

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2021-02-19 12:16 p.m.

ERCOT is an organization that was created by Texas to establish their power system as an independent entity, in no way connected to the main power grid of the other 47 states. That was done in order for Texas to circumvent Federal power regulations. Electrically speaking, they are an island. So, when the recent emergency arose, neighboring states affected by the storm had the national power grid to fall back on for help. Texas did not. ERCOT had not kept their own infrastructure sufficiently up-to-date to handle the situation on their own. That explains why, of all the states that were hammered by the recent storm, only Texas experienced disaster......... a humanitarian and financial disaster that the the rest of us now must shoulder.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2021-02-19 1:09 p.m.

The news coverage that really showed the problem in Texas was on CNN where they showed a 4 lane road running through a town that is half in Texas and half in Arkansas. The Arkansas side of the road was plowed and dry - the Texas side looked like there was 1.5 feet of snow. The Texas energy company dropped the ball and it looks like many municipal services were unprepared. Of course, if the power is off in their homes and pipes are bursting, it might make it difficult for a city to get their plow operators out to work.

Up here in the frozen north, we're used to cold and snow - understandable that this is a tough situation when it's so unusual, but there needed to be better preparations.

Our last cold snap that just ended a couple of days ago had temperatures of -30C with wind chills between -40 and -55C. Lots of snow too. Glad that's over! They are prepared for it here, but it happens for a week or two every year.

Jim Scott

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-19 1:19 p.m.

I had suggested that this was New England winter weather because we generally get a week or two of sub-zero (Fahrenheit) temperatures during January or February with mean winter temperatures just below freezing. I know that winter can be much colder, especially in the north-central US and Canadian Prairie provinces.

Right now is not the time to finger point for blame. Right now is the time to extend sympathy and to help where possible.

Maybe having Santa do a special delivery of coal would be welcome ;)

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2021-02-19 2:16 p.m.

I remember living in Madison Wisconsin while going to engineering school. There was a l.o.n.g. several day period where the high did not break 0 F. (Google tells me it was not as many days as my memory claims, but there were still enough.)

Graduated and moved to Alabama. Sold all my ice fishing gear.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2021-02-19 2:24 p.m.

A friend while grew up in NY was telling me all about the tough winter weather in the NE.

The lower 48 states’ worst winter weather is our best weather up here Canada. Texas’ recent cold snap would be considered pretty standard, if not pleasant, up here (Nov to March) in the Great White North. R Maddow was going on about the Texas weather last night and I looked up the weather in Dallas: -3C. Right now, it’s 2C.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-19 3:02 p.m.

The problem is that Texans don't expect this kind of cold weather. I remember laughing inside when my grandparents moved to South Florida and started complaining about how cold it was when the temperature dipped to 50 degrees F (about 10 C).

Freezes are much rarer in the deep South US. As such, things like wood stoves and kerosene heaters are not popular and construction does not anticipate frozen pipes or power blackouts from cold (most power blackouts come from storms with high winds like tornadoes or hurricanes).

I'd bet there is little construction in central Canada anticipating hurricanes (although tornadoes are possible).

mrpillow · by **mrpillow** » 2021-02-19 3:40 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]The lower 48 states’ worst winter weather is our best weather up here Canada. Texas’ recent cold snap would be considered pretty standard, if not pleasant, up here (Nov to March) in the Great White North.[/quote]

Congratulations, Canada has colder weather than Texas. You win the cold Olympics. Maybe you can use some of your frosty prize money to help the thousands of people suffering due to circumstances largely beyond their control. I guess they should have just moved to Canada, where it'd be cold enough for the internet to not harass them about freezing to death.

Bach5G · 2021-02-19 4:15 p.m.

Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow. This was not an unforeseen occurrence. And, it wasn’t all that cold. Louisiana ploughed its side of the road.

I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge a Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-19 4:21 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]...

I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge your Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.[/quote]

It's called "free market economy". Supply and demand. Very little supply plus demand yields high prices. That's why I had to wait 3 hours in line and pay twice the usual per gallon (liter) rate for gasoline in 1973.

mrpillow · by **mrpillow** » 2021-02-19 4:35 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow.[/quote]

Literally millions of Texans voted for other candidates/parties than those currently in power in the last election cycle. Most of them from the same demographics that are more likely to face longer-term issues with electric supply, clean water, adequate housing in the event of an emergency.

Go play your victim-blaming card on Facebook.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-19 4:42 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]I read a story that it cost $9000 to charge your Tesla in Texas a couple of days ago.[/quote]

Did that actually happen or is someone just calculating a "what if"?

IF... that is true it would have to be someone who had chosen a variable rate plan from their electricity provider, and decided to charge their Tesla on one of the few days the rate had peaked.

For them it would have been similarly outrageous to run the cleaning cycle on their electric oven on one of those days.

Most of us have fixed rate/kwh plans. There are about 70 different companies one can choose to buy the electricity from.

Maybe those Texans should have elected governments that acknowledged the likelihood of cold weather in winter and made sure the power grid could handle a little bit of snow.

The snow isn't the problem. It is the astonishing once-in-a-century cold.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2021-02-19 4:54 p.m.

[quote="mrpillow"]

... Go play your victim-blaming card on Facebook.[/quote]

Jeez Pillow. That’s cold.

Chill.

mrpillow · by **mrpillow** » 2021-02-19 5:06 p.m.

No thanks. I'll stick to being concerned about friends, family, neighbors, and strangers in my home town who were worried about freezing to death in their own homes or don't have access to drinkable water, food, power, communications, or other basic essentials. Until the situation is resolved across the state for everyone who suffered misfortune at the hands of the governments gross ineptitude, I have no patience for temperature related puns or any other unsympathetic posturing.

Doubler · by **Doubler** » 2021-02-19 5:09 p.m.

When triple-digit temperatures are not uncommon in Summer, and snow in Winter is something you watch on TV year after year, planning for extraordinarily cold weather is not a priority. Should the various layers of government have had more foresight? I think so, but government doesn't always operate in the best interest of the populace, and neither does business when profits take precedence over service. Will Texas be better prepared for the next weather fluke? I hope so.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-19 8:54 p.m.

One government thing that worked well was the weather forecast.

Four days ahead when it was 60° out, the idea of temps dropping to 0°F seemed insane, but the forecast was accurate and gave me time to get some prep done. I got my pipes covered, i got the flashlight batteries and the ready-to-eat food.

But promise of blackouts of just 60 minutes was the big failure. I wasn't ready for two days of no power at all in sub-freezing temps.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2021-02-19 9:21 p.m.

Have things improved at all Rob?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-19 10:29 p.m.

According to news reports, the Power Grid has rectified the problems and the brownouts and blackouts should be fixed.

I hope Texans manage to recover with minimal pain. I saw a YouTube posting from a guy who specializes in old computer equipment (much of which I used to use!) and he had an external faucet fail flooding much of his house. He's going to have to remove about a foot and a half (50 cm) of wallboard from all his walls and replace it. Along with all the baseboards and all the flooring. He also lost a lot of furniture made from chipboard.

If the water pressure is restored to the municipal systems there is still a period where you need to boil until they manage to purge all the stuff from the system. But at least there will be electricity to power the kitchens.

May we be seeing light at the end of the tunnel for Texas.

robcat2075 · 2021-02-19 10:35 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Have things improved at all Rob?[/quote]

For me... yes, the crisis was over yesterday, no more blackouts and reasonable daytime temps. Only minor plumbing damage that I have patched for now.

Today it was warm enough long enough to clear the ice off the roads too.

But there's going to be a ton of people in a serious bind as their pipes thaw out and begin to leak and all their water has to be shut off until... a plumber gets to them, eventually.

And we're probably going to be hearing stories soon of unbelievable electric bills the people on variable pricing plans start getting. They are going to wish they had been blacked out for two days.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-19 11:48 p.m.

I'm sure this was a total nightmare for anyone who was not able-bodied or who had kids in the house.

There's a whole segment of the population that were just getting by financially, physically, emotionally... and then something like this hits and they don't have any slack left.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-20 9:03 p.m.

Here it comes...

~~[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html?smid=url-share]~~His Lights Stayed on During Texas’ Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.

Doubler · by **Doubler** » 2021-02-20 9:35 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]Here it comes...

~~[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html?smid=url-share]~~His Lights Stayed on During Texas’ Storm. Now He Owes $16,752.[/quote]

A proper comment would involve language not allowed on TC... and lots of it!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-20 9:46 p.m.

Texas is a bastion of deregulation. Here is a clear view of the downside. I hope people will remember this as they decry Government regulation.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-20 10:45 p.m.

It's scary that I actually considered one of those variable rate plans last summer when I was picking out a new electric co.

One was just 7 cents/kwh. I looked at that for a long nanosecond but ended up picking one that was about 10 cents fixed.

JCBone · by **JCBone** » 2021-02-21 6:55 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]Texas is a bastion of deregulation. Here is a clear view of the downside. I hope people will remember this as they decry Government regulation.[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to take an unprecedented natural disaster and then blame the outcome on neoliberalism. I didn't read tge arricle since I don't have a subscription but where people actually charged that much or is is it a misleading title?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-21 8:50 a.m.

[quote="JCBone"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="141414" time="1613875571" user_id="53">
Texas is a bastion of deregulation. Here is a clear view of the downside. I hope people will remember this as they decry Government regulation.[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to take an unprecedented natural disaster and then blame the outcome on neoliberalism. I didn't read the article since I don't have a subscription but were people actually charged that much or is is it a misleading title?
</QUOTE>

This is confirmation of the earlier post claiming a $6,000 charge to "fuel up" an electric vehicle. There are several incidences of people who got obscenely high electrical bills because the power plan doesn't put a cap on the market charges.

Note: the New York Times will allow you to read a single article, although it will contain some extra ads put in. If you have been reading a bunch of articles "for free" the Times will block you.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-21 10:07 a.m.

[quote="JCBone"]I didn't read tge arricle since I don't have a subscription but where people actually charged that much or is is it a misleading title?[/quote]

The article cites an actual instance of a person who got such a bill. He signed up for a variable rate electric plan, which looked attractive when rates were low. Most people don't sign up for variable rate plans so this scenario won't happen to most people.

But such plans are possible under the current law which favors open competition among electric companies, which I suspect won't last long after this debacle.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-21 12:58 p.m.

[quote="JCBone"]I didn't read tge arricle since I don't have a subscription but where people actually charged that much or is is it a misleading title?[/quote]

Here are a few key passages

SAN ANTONIO — As millions of Texans shivered in dark, cold homes over the past week while a winter storm devastated the state’s power grid and froze natural gas production, those who could still summon lights with the flick of a switch felt lucky.

Now, many of them are paying a severe price for it.

“My savings is gone,” said Scott Willoughby, a 63-year-old Army veteran who lives on Social Security payments in a Dallas suburb. He said he had nearly emptied his savings account so that he would be able to pay the $16,752 electric bill charged to his credit card — 70 times what he usually pays for all of his utilities combined. “There’s nothing I can do about it, but it’s broken me.”

...The steep electric bills in Texas are in part a result of the state’s uniquely unregulated energy market, which allows customers to pick their electricity providers among about 220 retailers in an entirely market-driven system.

Under some of the plans, when demand increases, prices rise. The goal, architects of the system say, is to balance the market by encouraging consumers to reduce their usage and power suppliers to create more electricity.

But when last week’s crisis hit and power systems faltered, the state’s Public Utilities Commission ordered that the price cap be raised to its maximum limit of $9 per kilowatt-hour, easily pushing many customers’ daily electric costs above $100. And in some cases, like Mr. Willoughby’s, bills rose by more than 50 times the normal cost.

Many of the people who have reported extremely high charges, including Mr. Willoughby, are customers of Griddy, a small company in Houston that provides electricity at wholesale prices, which can quickly change based on supply and demand.

The company passes the wholesale price directly to customers, charging an additional $9.99 monthly fee. Much of the time, the rate is considered affordable. But the model can be risky: Last week, foreseeing a huge jump in wholesale prices, the company encouraged all of its customers — about 29,000 people — to switch to another provider when the storm arrived. But many were unable to do so.

I'll note that $9 per kWh is about 90x the rate i pay on my 10¢/kWh fixed rate plan, but when "Scott Willoughby" signed up for his variable rate plan it might have been quoting 6 or 7¢ per kwh, much less than the fixed rate plans

“To the Texas Utilities Commission: What are you thinking, allowing the average type of household to sign up for this kind of program?” Tyson Slocum, the director of the energy program at Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy group, said of Griddy. “The risk-reward is so out of whack that it never should have been permitted in the first place.”

Phil King, a Republican state lawmaker who represents an area west of Fort Worth, said some of his constituents who were on variable-rate contracts were complaining about bills in the thousands.

“When something like this happens, you’re in real trouble” with such contracts, Mr. King said. “There have got to be some emergency financial waivers and other actions taken until we can work through this and get to the bottom of it.”

Responding to its outraged customers, Griddy, too, appeared to try to shift anger to the Public Utilities Commission in a statement.

“We intend to fight this for, and alongside, our customers for equity and accountability — to reveal why such price increases were allowed to happen as millions of Texans went without power,” the statement said.

William W. Hogan, considered the architect of the Texas energy market design, said in an interview this past week that the high prices reflected the market performing as it was designed.

On paper, free market-forces schemes like this should work to keep demand in line with supply... you can freely choose to freeze if you don't like the cost of not freezing... but in practice you don't know the price of the electricity until it's too late to choose not to buy it so the market forces don't really work.

Also, there were never enough people on those variable plans to properly influence the total demand enough to meet the crisis. Everyone would have to be in for it to work.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-21 7:55 p.m.

Here it comes...

NYT: ~~[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/us/texas-plumber-frozen-pipes.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage]~~What a Texas Plumber Faces Now: A State Full of Burst Pipes

HOUSTON — Randy Calazans is one of the hottest commodities in Texas right now. He’s a plumber.

The winter weather nightmare that swept through the state last week cut off power and heat to millions of homes that were never designed for frigid temperatures. Up and down the state, people were driven from their homes, or came back to find them badly damaged, by pipes and valves and tanks that froze and burst.

So when the snow started to defrost and the sun made a coveted return, plumbers were suddenly like roofers after a hurricane: Everybody seemed to need one, all at once.

At One Call Plumbing, the plumbing business where Mr. Calazans works, employees have been answering the phones nonstop in a small office with sprawling maps of Houston on the walls. The owner, Edgar Connery, said he had been in the business for nearly 40 years and had never seen a crush like this after other natural disasters. Some other companies had gotten so swamped that they stopped answering the phone at all.

But some houses will need major work, and may even have to be re-piped completely; those must be left for the weeks ahead.

The full magnitude of the damage left behind by the cold snap is still emerging, but the state already knows it needs more plumbers in a hurry. Gov. Greg Abbott’s office has said that the state will grant provisional licenses to out-of-state plumbers and will waive fees and certain other requirements for plumbers with lapsed licenses who want to renew them.

I'm glad I can fix my stuff myself.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-02-21 7:59 p.m.

You knew this was the next phase. All so you can keep your Texas electrical grid "pure".

I feel for those poor residents with broken pipes.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2021-02-21 8:39 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]I don’t see what the problem is. Just head over to Cancun and wait it out on the beach. What’s so difficult?

signed Ted Cruz[/quote]

#CancunCruz!!

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2021-02-21 8:40 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]Here it comes...

NYT: ~~[url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/us/texas-plumber-frozen-pipes.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage]~~What a Texas Plumber Faces Now: A State Full of Burst Pipes

<QUOTE>HOUSTON — Randy Calazans is one of the hottest commodities in Texas right now. He’s a plumber.

The winter weather nightmare that swept through the state last week cut off power and heat to millions of homes that were never designed for frigid temperatures. Up and down the state, people were driven from their homes, or came back to find them badly damaged, by pipes and valves and tanks that froze and burst.

So when the snow started to defrost and the sun made a coveted return, plumbers were suddenly like roofers after a hurricane: Everybody seemed to need one, all at once.

At One Call Plumbing, the plumbing business where Mr. Calazans works, employees have been answering the phones nonstop in a small office with sprawling maps of Houston on the walls. The owner, Edgar Connery, said he had been in the business for nearly 40 years and had never seen a crush like this after other natural disasters. Some other companies had gotten so swamped that they stopped answering the phone at all.[/quote]

But some houses will need major work, and may even have to be re-piped completely; those must be left for the weeks ahead.

The full magnitude of the damage left behind by the cold snap is still emerging, but the state already knows it needs more plumbers in a hurry. Gov. Greg Abbott’s office has said that the state will grant provisional licenses to out-of-state plumbers and will waive fees and certain other requirements for plumbers with lapsed licenses who want to renew them.

I'm glad I can fix my stuff myself.
</QUOTE>

Agreed IF you can find materials!!!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-21 9:35 p.m.

One thing I'm glad I did a couple years ago was re-pipe the hot water to the clothes washer so it isn't just a branch, it's a U that goes out to the washing machine then comes back on its way to the kitchen sink, so i can just leave the sink faucet running and that will keep the whole line unfrozen.

Unfortunately... I had not done that yet to the cold water pipe to the washing machine. My remedy was a heating pad that sat on top of the pipe. If the power had not gone out that would have been fine.

Oh well. Now I have a reason to do that cold water U.

I bet the people with the worst water damage are the ones who decamped to grandma's or the ex-spouse's house and didn't leave faucets running and weren't home to turn water off when it all started to thaw.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-22 1:25 a.m.

Many articles noting that, insurance claim-wise, this will be the biggest disaster in Texas history.

Bigger than any hurricane.

I'm one step ahead of all of them... I have no insurance!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-23 9:03 p.m.

My past month of kWh usage.

The vertical bars are the kWh used in a day, the red dots claim to be average daily temperature but they look more like the highs.

The tallest bar amounts to about $20 of electricity. The next two might have been a little higher (if there had been any electricity) but the heater was already going full tilt. I had run out of ways to use more electricity.

<ATTACHMENT filename="kWh.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~kWh.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-02-25 10:20 a.m.

My electric provider felt a need to send this out...

.
<ATTACHMENT filename="Gexa.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~Gexa.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
.

However, I do notice that their current offerings are a bit more expensive than when I signed up last summer. Hopefully that will subside by the time I have choose again at the end of the year.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-03-02 7:25 a.m.

Oh man, 12F this morning. New England gets a Texas winter!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-02 10:04 a.m.

[quote="baileyman"]Oh man, 12F this morning. New England gets a Texas winter![/quote]

And I lost power for 7 hours last night. Maybe Ted Cruz will go back to Cancun? :evil:

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-03-02 10:17 a.m.

Ick. Chilly. We have a town electric department that does all the work the for-profit companies won't.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-03-02 10:28 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]And I lost power for 7 hours last night. Maybe Ted Cruz will go back to Cancun? :evil:[/quote]
Did you have a backup heat provision already? What was that?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-03-02 2:23 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="142332" time="1614697463" user_id="53">
And I lost power for 7 hours last night. Maybe Ted Cruz will go back to Cancun? :evil:[/quote]
Did you have a backup heat provision already? What was that?
</QUOTE>

The best one: the dog! :cool:

Actually, we have a wood stove, although we haven't needed to fire it up for quite a while. That's New England. We all have supplemental heat sources because we expect cold weather.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-03-19 11:47 a.m.

~~[url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2021/03/04/a-bailout-of-texass-grid-operator-is-inevitable-and-it-will-cost-ratepayers-billions/?sh=7a83f51311c9]~~A Bailout Of Texas’s Grid Operator Is Inevitable And It Will Cost Ratepayers Billions

In theory, Texans owe more than $50 billion for the electricity that was delivered during Winter Storm Uri, the deadly blizzard that walloped the state last month. It’s not clear how much of that astronomical sum will change hands. But even if that number is cut in half, it’s still a very large sum. Indeed, for comparison, in 2020, the value of all the electricity sold in the state – for the entire year– was $35.1 billion.

Since most Texans are on fixed rate plans and there are not nearly enough variable rate customers to make up all that extra cost, even if they could, i presume most of that shortfall of money will happen somewhere in the business side of the system.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2021-03-19 1:25 p.m.

Bailouts yes. But no socialism!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2021-04-16 4:02 p.m.

WaPo:~~[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/04/14/texas-blackouts-liability/]~~The fight over who will pay for Texas blackouts gears up

A high-stakes struggle over billions of dollars is playing out in federal bankruptcy courts, in state courts and in the Texas legislature

...Now, the fight over who will pay, and how much, is gearing up. The action is taking place in federal bankruptcy courts, in state courts and in the Texas legislature. The state’s attorney general has ruled that customers of one company needn’t pay their bills. And more than 200 Texans have joined what is expected to be a flood of liability suits...

...the cases could take years to be decided. That’s true, too, for the energy companies and financial firms squaring off against each other.

As those court cases are being prepared, state political leaders in Austin are feeling intense pressure to recast the electricity market to try to avoid another debacle — yet Texas flirted with one again on Tuesday. Mild weather, warmer than predicted, led to higher loads than the system was ready to handle, as customers turned on air conditioners. With about a quarter of the state’s power plants down for maintenance to be ready for summer’s heat, “we are in a condition that’s very tight,” said Woody Rickerson, vice president for operations of the agency that dispatches power, known as Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT.

...Texans enjoying the spring weather saw the wholesale price of power once more temporarily leap, this time about 60-fold higher than normal.

This event seems likely to concentrate the minds of the state’s legislators as they wrestle with ways to fix the system. Whatever course they choose — even if it’s to do nothing — there will inevitably be winners and losers. Lobbying by the energy companies is already in high gear.

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