Big mouthpice in a small horn
- bachtothefuture
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mar 18, 2021
I have a really nice vintage Conn 6H I love to play. I know a 7C or a 6.5 AL mouthpice is the "correct" mouthpice for that size of horn. I can't make them work. I use a Bach 5GS. The sound is centered, full, rich, and I have lots of control. When I use anything smaller, it's like walking in shoes that are too tight. The tone becomes airy, and playing lip slurs is an adventure. Should I just "get used to them" and practice and make them work becuase they match the horn, or go with what feels right, sounds right, and makes me a happy player.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
ALWAYS use what makes you a happy player.
Lots of players (including myself) use rim sizes even bigger than that, on small horns. A 5GS is much too small for me to feel comfortable.
Lots of players (including myself) use rim sizes even bigger than that, on small horns. A 5GS is much too small for me to feel comfortable.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
The correct mouthpiece is the one that feels right and sounds right
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I play a DE combo similar to a Bach 5 on my King 2B and 3B. Anything smaller feels too restrictive to me. Forget what mouthpieces "they say" you should use with X or Y horn, use what works for YOU.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
There is a cup depth and backbore that is probably ideal for that instrument, but the cup diameter has almost nothing to do with that. The problem with most mouthpieces is that the cup depth is tied to the rim width. A 5GS might feel great, but isn't that still a deep cup? Shallow cup, wide rim, with the correct backbore, is probably the ticket for that horn.
Look into Doug Elliott mouthpieces.
Look into Doug Elliott mouthpieces.
- Doubler
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Jan 07, 2019
"Correct" mouthpiece may be a starting point from which the individual player may vary... sometimes a lot! The horn doesn't play itself; the mouthpiece is the component that matches the player to the horn.
- Conn100HGuy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Oct 22, 2018
My setup is essentially the modern equivalent of yours: Conn 100H with a Wedge 5GS. I use the same mp with all of my horns. It just works better for me than the conventional wisdom sizes for small-bore horns.
- bachtothefuture
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mar 18, 2021
[quote="Doug Elliott"]ALWAYS use what makes you a happy player.
Lots of players (including myself) use rim sizes even bigger than that, on small horns. A 5GS is much too small for me to feel comfortable.[/quote]
Thanks Doug. Others below said the same thing. Seems like rim size is not an issue. I will stay with what sounds best then.
Lots of players (including myself) use rim sizes even bigger than that, on small horns. A 5GS is much too small for me to feel comfortable.[/quote]
Thanks Doug. Others below said the same thing. Seems like rim size is not an issue. I will stay with what sounds best then.
- Windmill
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Feb 14, 2021
Played for a while on the same trombone (King 2B) with a friend of mine. I used my 12C-like old piece, and he used something insanely big from Bach, like 3G, can't really remember. I still sounded like me, and him like him :)
- PaulTdot
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Feb 04, 2019
I am also one of those player who uses a really big mouthpiece on a small horn (thanks to Doug!).
Big mouthpieces just feel good, for me. I even have a bass trombone mouthpiece I use on my tenor sometimes, and it feels really nice.
Are there downsides, though? The few times I had play smaller mouthpieces (on either horn, small or large bore), it felt uncomfortable and caused issues, but there was something I really liked about the sound, and I don't know if it had to do with the rim size or some other factor.
I have a friend (an excellent trombonist) who's gone really far in this direction, and now plays some absolutely ridiculous (to me!) equipment, including a mouthpiece that's way smaller than a 12C. I can't even imagine doing that, but it seems to be making him happy.
Big mouthpieces just feel good, for me. I even have a bass trombone mouthpiece I use on my tenor sometimes, and it feels really nice.
Are there downsides, though? The few times I had play smaller mouthpieces (on either horn, small or large bore), it felt uncomfortable and caused issues, but there was something I really liked about the sound, and I don't know if it had to do with the rim size or some other factor.
I have a friend (an excellent trombonist) who's gone really far in this direction, and now plays some absolutely ridiculous (to me!) equipment, including a mouthpiece that's way smaller than a 12C. I can't even imagine doing that, but it seems to be making him happy.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Occasionally I read stories about playing on big equipment being tiring and requiring a lot of work to keep in shape.
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
[quote="PaulTdot"]...I have a friend (an excellent trombonist) who's gone really far in this direction, and now plays some absolutely ridiculous (to me!) equipment, including a mouthpiece that's way smaller than a 12C. I can't even imagine doing that, but it seems to be making him happy...[/quote]
I believe that is an old-school approach. Forty years or so ago, we would be having a conversation about 12C this or 11 1/2C that. Now it seems it's 1C this or that. Progress!
I believe that is an old-school approach. Forty years or so ago, we would be having a conversation about 12C this or 11 1/2C that. Now it seems it's 1C this or that. Progress!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]Occasionally I read stories about playing on big equipment being tiring and requiring a lot of work to keep in shape.
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?[/quote]
No, it's the cup depth that affects endurance, at least for me. You can have the 104 rim on an otherwise 12C mouthpiece and it could work very well.
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?[/quote]
No, it's the cup depth that affects endurance, at least for me. You can have the 104 rim on an otherwise 12C mouthpiece and it could work very well.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]Occasionally I read stories about playing on big equipment being tiring and requiring a lot of work to keep in shape.
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?[/quote]
It depends on the embouchure. I have no problem playing a 104 on lead but I wouldn't last 5 minutes on a 12C. Others of a different embouchure type would be the opposite.
That's why I don't recommend a mouthpiece size without seeing somebody play. I can usually see their embouchure type right away. There's a lot of confusion about this subject - it's really about function, not appearance.
Would playing lead on a 104 rim plugged into a 6H be any more difficult than, say, a 12C?[/quote]
It depends on the embouchure. I have no problem playing a 104 on lead but I wouldn't last 5 minutes on a 12C. Others of a different embouchure type would be the opposite.
That's why I don't recommend a mouthpiece size without seeing somebody play. I can usually see their embouchure type right away. There's a lot of confusion about this subject - it's really about function, not appearance.