Snobby trumpet guy
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
A tongue what embouchure?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
He sounds like a certain former "world leader"
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
Lol. I noticed that as well.
So I wonder what brand he advocates.
He can go back to it and I'll go back, I'll go back to Bach.
So I wonder what brand he advocates.
He can go back to it and I'll go back, I'll go back to Bach.
- Doubler
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Jan 07, 2019
He recommends Callet mouthpieces, because they work for him. More "Power" to him. Perhaps Bach mouthpieces work for other players, ya think?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I threw a few in there
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
Seems like his whole teaching philosophy is 'get a new mouthpiece'
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The "snobby trumpet guy" is Ralph Salamone, who is promoting trumpet mouthpieces from Jerome Callet.
Not surprising, since he is, since the death of Mr. Callet in 2019, now the "exclusive dealer" for Callet mouthpieces using the name "True Power:"
http://www.tpwr.org/callet.html
Why does Salamone unreservedly trash all Bach trumpet mouthpieces? Because he wants to sell you one of his Callet mouthpieces. The entire video is an ad.
Full disclosure: I've actually tried a Callet trombone mouthpiece - a Magnum 7B.
(Heavy weight. Long, slightly oversize shank. Like a deep cup, large-throat Bach 6¾ or Bach 7?)
It didn't do anything for me. :frown:
Not surprising, since he is, since the death of Mr. Callet in 2019, now the "exclusive dealer" for Callet mouthpieces using the name "True Power:"
http://www.tpwr.org/callet.html
Why does Salamone unreservedly trash all Bach trumpet mouthpieces? Because he wants to sell you one of his Callet mouthpieces. The entire video is an ad.
Full disclosure: I've actually tried a Callet trombone mouthpiece - a Magnum 7B.
(Heavy weight. Long, slightly oversize shank. Like a deep cup, large-throat Bach 6¾ or Bach 7?)
It didn't do anything for me. :frown:
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
I see this as an example of a silly talk <EMOJI seq="1f923" tseq="1f923">🤣</EMOJI>
/Tom
/Tom
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]...
Full disclosure: I've actually tried a Callet trombone mouthpiece - a Magnum 7B.
(Heavy weight. Long, slightly oversize shank. Like a deep cup, large-throat Bach 6¾ or Bach 7?)
It didn't do anything for me. :frown:[/quote]
I have a Callet 26 Something. Bought it directly from Callet at a seminar. About 4G size. It's in the drawer. I paid $130 for it. Not worth that. Too heavy and not responsive. Btw, Callet was not as egotistical as this guy.
Full disclosure: I've actually tried a Callet trombone mouthpiece - a Magnum 7B.
(Heavy weight. Long, slightly oversize shank. Like a deep cup, large-throat Bach 6¾ or Bach 7?)
It didn't do anything for me. :frown:[/quote]
I have a Callet 26 Something. Bought it directly from Callet at a seminar. About 4G size. It's in the drawer. I paid $130 for it. Not worth that. Too heavy and not responsive. Btw, Callet was not as egotistical as this guy.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
I didn't perceive him as snobby, he seemed sincere, but I have no way to assess the merit of his claims.
The story of the fourth trumpet who has to ice his lips sounds pretty dire indeed, but is that the mouthpiece's fault?
What is the meaning of the stuff he's playing under the black for the last several minutes? That sounded awful.
The story of the fourth trumpet who has to ice his lips sounds pretty dire indeed, but is that the mouthpiece's fault?
What is the meaning of the stuff he's playing under the black for the last several minutes? That sounded awful.
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
I don’t know how someone can watch that, and then take a mouthpiece recommendation from him. Especially at the end, i wouldn’t trust anyone who sounds like that. Even on a trash mouthpiece. I’m surprised he didn’t talk about how gold plate makes his double c easier to play.
- JCBone
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Jul 29, 2020
For someone who claims to have played with the MET, There is no way he was playing the Arbans in the end to the best of his ability. A pro, even with unideal equipment, should still be able sound musical.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="JCBone"]For someone who claims to have played with the MET. There is no way he was playing the Arbans in the end to the best of his ability. A pro, even with unideal equipment, should still be able sound musical.[/quote]
It wasn't "at" the Met - it was busking out in front of the building. He was ushered away by the cops.
Jim Scott
It wasn't "at" the Met - it was busking out in front of the building. He was ushered away by the cops.
Jim Scott
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
There was a thread here on TC a while ago about this fellow. IIRC, consensus here (which is, no doubt, the final word on every major topic of discussion you’d care to find) was that his teaching and playing were... unorthodox. To me, his sound is very bright and unpleasant.
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Jerry Callet advocated a tongue controlled embouchure. I tried it after that session I attended and decided it wasn't for me.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]There was a thread here on TC a while ago about this fellow. IIRC, consensus here (which is, no doubt, the final word on every major topic of discussion you’d care to find) was that his teaching and playing were... unorthodox. To me, his sound is very bright and unpleasant.
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...[/quote]
My tongue controls a lot of my embouchure, but not in the way he describes.
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...[/quote]
My tongue controls a lot of my embouchure, but not in the way he describes.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Here is a website on [url=https://tonguecontrolled.info/]Tongue Controlled Embouchure
I have no idea as to the merits. It must work for someone as they seem quite dedicated to it.
I have certainly had that impression at times. :D They have my attention now.
French so ancient, it looks like German! I'm beginning to have doubts...
I have no idea as to the merits. It must work for someone as they seem quite dedicated to it.
"The vast majority of brass teaching is just the perpetuation of anecdotes, trepidation and mythology..."
I have certainly had that impression at times. :D They have my attention now.
"The terms Einsetzen and Ansetzen are words that originate in ancient french horn technique..."
French so ancient, it looks like German! I'm beginning to have doubts...
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
I didn't mind the head being cut off (dude, check your camera!) but where do you get Penn State sweatshirts printed mirror image? I want one.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...[/quote]
I don't think so. Bahb Civiletti, a NYC-based baroque trumpet player and former student of Callet, is an advocate of "tongue-controlled embouchure". I assume there are other baroque trumpet players today that use that technique, but I'm not aware that it's any more the norm as it is in the modern trumpet scene. And I don't know of any evidence supporting that it was historically the dominant technique in the baroque era. On the contrary, as far as I can tell TCE appears to be incompatible with the tonguing styles in both Fantini (1638) and Altenburg (1795), the two trumpet method writers that bookend the baroque period. (try saying "tiritiriton" with you tongue touching your lips. Good luck!)
His claim in terms of it being historical is basically: the trumpet guild secrets are lost forever so we'll never no for sure, but that's how I am able to play those hard Bach, L Mozart, Reutter and M Haydn parts, and I'm so good at it, therefore that *must* be what they were doing back then too...This of course is not based on historical sources, ignores that other players can actually play baroque trumpet really well without using TCE, and also ignores the fact that he doesn't actually play the instrument those parts were written for (i.e. he plays baroque trumpet with holes, not natural trumpet, that makes an enormous difference in terms of embouchure).
I don't think so. Bahb Civiletti, a NYC-based baroque trumpet player and former student of Callet, is an advocate of "tongue-controlled embouchure". I assume there are other baroque trumpet players today that use that technique, but I'm not aware that it's any more the norm as it is in the modern trumpet scene. And I don't know of any evidence supporting that it was historically the dominant technique in the baroque era. On the contrary, as far as I can tell TCE appears to be incompatible with the tonguing styles in both Fantini (1638) and Altenburg (1795), the two trumpet method writers that bookend the baroque period. (try saying "tiritiriton" with you tongue touching your lips. Good luck!)
His claim in terms of it being historical is basically: the trumpet guild secrets are lost forever so we'll never no for sure, but that's how I am able to play those hard Bach, L Mozart, Reutter and M Haydn parts, and I'm so good at it, therefore that *must* be what they were doing back then too...This of course is not based on historical sources, ignores that other players can actually play baroque trumpet really well without using TCE, and also ignores the fact that he doesn't actually play the instrument those parts were written for (i.e. he plays baroque trumpet with holes, not natural trumpet, that makes an enormous difference in terms of embouchure).
- Basbasun
- Posts: 496
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
It is possible to sound crappy on any mpc.
We do not know how the great trumpet players played. Some modern trumpet player do play with TCE emboure. Most trumpet players don´t. It does work for some, not for me in the "normal" range. I use the tongue on a forward setting on tones above my normal range.
This guy is something else. He should have a prize.
We do not know how the great trumpet players played. Some modern trumpet player do play with TCE emboure. Most trumpet players don´t. It does work for some, not for me in the "normal" range. I use the tongue on a forward setting on tones above my normal range.
This guy is something else. He should have a prize.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
I lost patience before I got to the part about tongue controlled.
But arched tongue is not something weird, and even the dorsal tonguing or K-Tonguing with the tip anchored below the bottom teeth come from mainstream trumpeters like Claude Gordon and Herbert Clarke.
But arched tongue is not something weird, and even the dorsal tonguing or K-Tonguing with the tip anchored below the bottom teeth come from mainstream trumpeters like Claude Gordon and Herbert Clarke.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]<QUOTE author="Kbiggs" post_id="145900" time="1618329628" user_id="172">
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...[/quote]
I don't think so. Bahb Civiletti, a NYC-based baroque trumpet player and former student of Callet, is an advocate of "tongue-controlled embouchure". I assume there are other baroque trumpet players today that use that technique, but I'm not aware that it's any more the norm as it is in the modern trumpet scene. And I don't know of any evidence supporting that it was historically the dominant technique in the baroque era. On the contrary, as far as I can tell TCE appears to be incompatible with the tonguing styles in both Fantini (1638) and Altenburg (1795), the two trumpet method writers that bookend the baroque period. (try saying "tiritiriton" with you tongue touching your lips. Good luck!)
His claim in terms of it being historical is basically: the trumpet guild secrets are lost forever so we'll never no for sure, but that's how I am able to play those hard Bach, L Mozart, Reutter and M Haydn parts, and I'm so good at it, therefore that *must* be what they were doing back then too...This of course is not based on historical sources, ignores that other players can actually play baroque trumpet really well without using TCE, and also ignores the fact that he doesn't actually play the instrument those parts were written for (i.e. he plays baroque trumpet with holes, not natural trumpet, that makes an enormous difference in terms of embouchure).
</QUOTE>
Gulp! I was wrong. It’s nice to know that someone out there actually cares about correcting the gaps in my education! :good:
Having said that, I’ve been reading a little about this so-called “tongue controlled embouchure.” Apparently, there is some indication that this was practiced in the Baroque trumpet world. I’d have to dig out my old notes and search my browser history...[/quote]
I don't think so. Bahb Civiletti, a NYC-based baroque trumpet player and former student of Callet, is an advocate of "tongue-controlled embouchure". I assume there are other baroque trumpet players today that use that technique, but I'm not aware that it's any more the norm as it is in the modern trumpet scene. And I don't know of any evidence supporting that it was historically the dominant technique in the baroque era. On the contrary, as far as I can tell TCE appears to be incompatible with the tonguing styles in both Fantini (1638) and Altenburg (1795), the two trumpet method writers that bookend the baroque period. (try saying "tiritiriton" with you tongue touching your lips. Good luck!)
His claim in terms of it being historical is basically: the trumpet guild secrets are lost forever so we'll never no for sure, but that's how I am able to play those hard Bach, L Mozart, Reutter and M Haydn parts, and I'm so good at it, therefore that *must* be what they were doing back then too...This of course is not based on historical sources, ignores that other players can actually play baroque trumpet really well without using TCE, and also ignores the fact that he doesn't actually play the instrument those parts were written for (i.e. he plays baroque trumpet with holes, not natural trumpet, that makes an enormous difference in terms of embouchure).
</QUOTE>
Gulp! I was wrong. It’s nice to know that someone out there actually cares about correcting the gaps in my education! :good:
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
My initial attempt to play with my tongue on my lower lip produces almost no usable sound. :D
Do we know of any trombone players who subscribe to this technique?
Do we know of any trombone players who subscribe to this technique?
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]My initial attempt to play with my tongue on my lower lip produces almost no usable sound. :D
Do we know of any trombone players who subscribe to this technique?[/quote]
A lot of people probably use a little tongue to brace and support the lower lip without realizing it.
Also people with a short tongue who do the dorsal tongue might end up with the tip there.
Do we know of any trombone players who subscribe to this technique?[/quote]
A lot of people probably use a little tongue to brace and support the lower lip without realizing it.
Also people with a short tongue who do the dorsal tongue might end up with the tip there.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Here's a diagram they offer. That's a lot of tongue.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
It maketh me thound like I'm lithping.
- Basbasun
- Posts: 496
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
Ha ha! Yes that is a funny picture! I don´t think there are many people who can do it like that. Maybe if I could do that I may get an fantastic high range on my basstrombone! I try !
(No I am not serious)
I do know very good trumpet players who use the TCE though.
(No I am not serious)
I do know very good trumpet players who use the TCE though.
- Basbasun
- Posts: 496
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
We all know of many good trumpet players who play Bach pieces. Who is he trying to fool?
- Basbasun
- Posts: 496
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
Some trumpeters plac Bach 7C with false teeth.
<YOUTUBE id="1dqL5RoIqqI">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dqL5RoIqqI</YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE id="1dqL5RoIqqI">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dqL5RoIqqI</YOUTUBE>