Conn 88HNV
- mattLockyer
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sep 22, 2019
Conn selmer are spoling us, a new Bach trombone bone and a Conn!
Any one know anything about this? Its on The Horn Guys page and it lists "the NV will have a few distinctions from the Gen 2 88H, including a vintage style bell and modern open wrap F-attachment."
My gut is saying Conn are going for a up to date Elkhart style horn with a ligther unsolderd bell... but could this just be a markating stunt? Are they just tring to distract us with a new wrap and diffrent engraveing? also a new case too apparantly :lol:
Achilles Liarmakopoulos is playing one in this vid <YOUTUBE id="lsLG-RJt5rg">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLG-RJt5rg</YOUTUBE> and its on the Horn guys page too
Any one know anything about this? Its on The Horn Guys page and it lists "the NV will have a few distinctions from the Gen 2 88H, including a vintage style bell and modern open wrap F-attachment."
My gut is saying Conn are going for a up to date Elkhart style horn with a ligther unsolderd bell... but could this just be a markating stunt? Are they just tring to distract us with a new wrap and diffrent engraveing? also a new case too apparantly :lol:
Achilles Liarmakopoulos is playing one in this vid <YOUTUBE id="lsLG-RJt5rg">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLG-RJt5rg</YOUTUBE> and its on the Horn guys page too
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
Looks like only Horn Guys know about this, nothing on the Conn / Selmer site. Achilles sure makes beautiful music in the video though.
- Peacemate
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Apr 07, 2020
Might be a bit confusing using the letter N due to the existence of 88HN (nickel) 88H's already. Don't like it if it's gonna be called 88HNV. New Vintage? Why not just vintage?
They also have the A47 Peter Steiner. Stock screwbell, I'm all in for something more mainstream with screwbell.
Feel kind of bad for Horn Guys since this probably breaks an NDA. Ouch.
They also have the A47 Peter Steiner. Stock screwbell, I'm all in for something more mainstream with screwbell.
Feel kind of bad for Horn Guys since this probably breaks an NDA. Ouch.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="Peacemate"]Feel kind of bad for Horn Guys since this probably breaks an NDA. Ouch.[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing. Oof.
I was thinking the same thing. Oof.
- mattLockyer
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sep 22, 2019
[quote="brtnats"]88HNV
NV
Get it?
...envy...[/quote]
The whole of the uk probbly are :lol:
NV
Get it?
...envy...[/quote]
The whole of the uk probbly are :lol:
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
Nothing about it seems exciting or makes me want to go get one. The case it comes with is ugly and combursome. If Steve's description of how it plays is accurate then my money is better spent buying a classic 88H of spending a few hundred more on a Shires.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
I doubt it breaks an NDA. Honestly, the Conn-Selmer website is utterly and completely out of date. It's atrocious, and has been for quite some time. It doesn't even have pictures of many of their current models that have been in production for years. The Bach line up is the same way, with many missing photos and other information. There is no mention at all of the Peter Steiner horn either.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]Nothing about it seems exciting or makes me want to go get one. The case it comes with is ugly and combursome. If Steve's description of how it plays is accurate then my money is better spent buying a classic 88H of spending a few hundred more on a Shires.[/quote]
Uh oh, the 88H police!
Uh oh, the 88H police!
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
I'm really curious to try one. I've spent most of my playing career on good 88Hs. This looks like a nice iteration of the 88H genealogy, but definitely represents a step forward, rather than backward. I have my doubts about whether it's possible to really capture the essence of a vintage 88H wth a soldered rim and a "short" handslide.
- Peacemate
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Apr 07, 2020
The case doesn't look like a good case. The added $380 MSRP over an 88HTO isn't worth it from a student perspective, who let's be real, are the only ones buying 88H's new. Those $380 are better spent on a protec and mouthpiece. Pros presumably already have good cases, so the case doesn't make sense for anybody.
Also, why did they have to make a new wrap? If they want it to look vintage use the stock wrap. If they want it to look vintage maybe don't put a letter mush on the bell engraving.
Honestly, just the marketing aspect of this trombone annoys me. If you want to make a new vintage trombone, make the trombone you're already making but better. The Elkhart 88H is liked because it is good. Make that.
Also, why did they have to make a new wrap? If they want it to look vintage use the stock wrap. If they want it to look vintage maybe don't put a letter mush on the bell engraving.
Honestly, just the marketing aspect of this trombone annoys me. If you want to make a new vintage trombone, make the trombone you're already making but better. The Elkhart 88H is liked because it is good. Make that.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
That wrap looks dumb. Why not just use the Minick wrap?
In any case, I think breathing life back into the 88H is a good thing. What else about this is different?
In any case, I think breathing life back into the 88H is a good thing. What else about this is different?
- Trav1s
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Jul 26, 2018
I'd really like to try it. Thin bell is a good thing and the redesigned wrap is no big deal as I like the traditional design. I wonder what it has to offer over the standard 88HT. I still have the 88HTG in mind if I would get another 88H...
After playing a Latzsch SL-240 at ITF 2018, I found it to be a worthy reinterpretation of the 88H with fine German craftsmanship and a Rotax valve that does not break the bank. (I don't think I could have an old 88H converted to Rotax for the cost of the SL-240.)
After playing a Latzsch SL-240 at ITF 2018, I found it to be a worthy reinterpretation of the 88H with fine German craftsmanship and a Rotax valve that does not break the bank. (I don't think I could have an old 88H converted to Rotax for the cost of the SL-240.)
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Peacemate"]The case doesn't look like a good case. The added $380 MSRP over an 88HTO isn't worth it from a student perspective, who let's be real, are the only ones buying 88H's new. Those $380 are better spent on a protec and mouthpiece. Pros presumably already have good cases, so the case doesn't make sense for anybody.
Also, why did they have to make a new wrap? If they want it to look vintage use the stock wrap. If they want it to look vintage maybe don't put a letter mush on the bell engraving.
Honestly, just the marketing aspect of this trombone annoys me. If you want to make a new vintage trombone, make the trombone you're already making but better. The Elkhart 88H is liked because it is good. Make that.[/quote]
So, I'm not in the market for this but I'll note a couple of thoughts if I were...
The case looks good. A soft touch hard case with buckles rather than a zipper and backpack style straps as well as a shoulder strap. Quite frankly, even though I have a dozen cases downstairs if I could get a case like that for my bass I would do it quickly. This looks better than any protec offering I've seen, but I'd have to see the actual execution. So many cases look decent and then are just not good. We all have opinions on cases, and I know we don't all agree, I like the idea of this case, but the execution remains to be seen.
As for the wrap, the current 88HO and 42BO wraps are crap. Both too long and both use rotors with the 180 deg port that a lot of folks don't like. I would not have done it like they did here, but I like that they went back to the 90 degree ports. Also, do not underestimate the idea of visual branding. With a unique wrap (that uses a lot of stock parts they already have handy), you can now visually see that this horn is used by Achilles, and anybody that puts one up on their face, we can identify this particular model from the back of the hall.
Cheers,
Andy
Also, why did they have to make a new wrap? If they want it to look vintage use the stock wrap. If they want it to look vintage maybe don't put a letter mush on the bell engraving.
Honestly, just the marketing aspect of this trombone annoys me. If you want to make a new vintage trombone, make the trombone you're already making but better. The Elkhart 88H is liked because it is good. Make that.[/quote]
So, I'm not in the market for this but I'll note a couple of thoughts if I were...
The case looks good. A soft touch hard case with buckles rather than a zipper and backpack style straps as well as a shoulder strap. Quite frankly, even though I have a dozen cases downstairs if I could get a case like that for my bass I would do it quickly. This looks better than any protec offering I've seen, but I'd have to see the actual execution. So many cases look decent and then are just not good. We all have opinions on cases, and I know we don't all agree, I like the idea of this case, but the execution remains to be seen.
As for the wrap, the current 88HO and 42BO wraps are crap. Both too long and both use rotors with the 180 deg port that a lot of folks don't like. I would not have done it like they did here, but I like that they went back to the 90 degree ports. Also, do not underestimate the idea of visual branding. With a unique wrap (that uses a lot of stock parts they already have handy), you can now visually see that this horn is used by Achilles, and anybody that puts one up on their face, we can identify this particular model from the back of the hall.
Cheers,
Andy
- skeletal
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Nov 19, 2020
It seems like there is an awful lot of competition for this instrument. Almost every manufacturer has their take on the classic 88h, except an ironically absent conn selmer. I wonder if they're too late to the party.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I'm seeing the case, looks good until you see they did the Bach/Yamaha "let's put the slide on top of the bell instead of along side it" thing. I don't like having to open an extra panel to get at the slide, and they put the slide openings facing the bell instead of having the crook towards the bell. So, when you put the case on the ground or in your locker or whatever, all the moisture you didn't get out before you put it away will leak out into the case, maybe onto the bell.
With the crook the other way, it collects in the crook when you put it down, and the first thing you do when you put your horn together is to empty the water key anyways.
"But I'm carrying it on my back, I've got to. I walk for miles uphill both ways to school. Everyone knows you put the bell up when it's on your back"
Great. The walking motion collects it all in the crook. As soon as you put the horn down, or in your locker or whatever, that pool will go straight onto your bell anyways. Just use the shoulder strap.
If they did it a little wider, side compartment for the slide, crook towards bell, it'd be perfect.
With the crook the other way, it collects in the crook when you put it down, and the first thing you do when you put your horn together is to empty the water key anyways.
"But I'm carrying it on my back, I've got to. I walk for miles uphill both ways to school. Everyone knows you put the bell up when it's on your back"
Great. The walking motion collects it all in the crook. As soon as you put the horn down, or in your locker or whatever, that pool will go straight onto your bell anyways. Just use the shoulder strap.
If they did it a little wider, side compartment for the slide, crook towards bell, it'd be perfect.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="145842" time="1618284917" user_id="3709">
Nothing about it seems exciting or makes me want to go get one. The case it comes with is ugly and combursome. If Steve's description of how it plays is accurate then my money is better spent buying a classic 88H of spending a few hundred more on a Shires.[/quote]
Uh oh, the 88H police!
</QUOTE>
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
On that note, i had the Boneyard build me an 88H bell section that is essentially what this horns design offers, so it appears I'm ahead of the game.
And I've played newer Conns and most have been ok or pretty good, i just prefer older horns, and, i prefer to keep a horn i buy instead of getting something that I'll eventually flip because of being fickle or going for the next shiney thing that comes along.
I NEVER liked the idea and fact of Selmer owning Conn or King. In my opinion, the other brands have taken a backseat while Bach gets all of the attention. You see that in their trumpet line. You even see that in the cases. The Bach cases look WAY nicer compared to what's being offered with this 88H.
And I'm sure the prototypes for this 88H are better players than this model. I tried one of the prototype 88Hs made for Sauer and it played beautifully. And on Steves facebook post i asked if the whole horn was going to Sandhagens in the hopes of trying it so i can see for myself how it plays.
I'm all for Conns getting a moment in the sun, and if a horn plays great for others than great. But with the cost of these newer horns i am better off buying a vintage horn I'm more likely to be happy with or a "boutique " horn that better represents a vintage 88H.
And the term police gives the impression I'm going to pull you over, prefrom an illegal search of your vehicle, beat you while your handcuffed then plant an 88H with a thayer on you to justify the whole ordeal.
Nothing about it seems exciting or makes me want to go get one. The case it comes with is ugly and combursome. If Steve's description of how it plays is accurate then my money is better spent buying a classic 88H of spending a few hundred more on a Shires.[/quote]
Uh oh, the 88H police!
</QUOTE>
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
On that note, i had the Boneyard build me an 88H bell section that is essentially what this horns design offers, so it appears I'm ahead of the game.
And I've played newer Conns and most have been ok or pretty good, i just prefer older horns, and, i prefer to keep a horn i buy instead of getting something that I'll eventually flip because of being fickle or going for the next shiney thing that comes along.
I NEVER liked the idea and fact of Selmer owning Conn or King. In my opinion, the other brands have taken a backseat while Bach gets all of the attention. You see that in their trumpet line. You even see that in the cases. The Bach cases look WAY nicer compared to what's being offered with this 88H.
And I'm sure the prototypes for this 88H are better players than this model. I tried one of the prototype 88Hs made for Sauer and it played beautifully. And on Steves facebook post i asked if the whole horn was going to Sandhagens in the hopes of trying it so i can see for myself how it plays.
I'm all for Conns getting a moment in the sun, and if a horn plays great for others than great. But with the cost of these newer horns i am better off buying a vintage horn I'm more likely to be happy with or a "boutique " horn that better represents a vintage 88H.
And the term police gives the impression I'm going to pull you over, prefrom an illegal search of your vehicle, beat you while your handcuffed then plant an 88H with a thayer on you to justify the whole ordeal.
- castrubone
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Apr 09, 2018
*trigger warning* Almost nobody under the age of 50 plays an old Elkhart 88H full time for a reason. Those horns have been mythologized, and there are many incredible examples to be sure, but by and large they have been surpassed by other horns. I would absolutely play a Gen 2 88H over an Elkhart 8 days a week. *dial 88 for the Conn police*
It was time for another upgrade to this classic horn, so I’m hopeful this new 88HNV plays as well as Achilles makes it sound and as good as the Horn Guys pictures make it look. Everybody and their mother makes an 88H style instrument, but it’s never equal to an actual Conn. If you prefer an 88H style instrument from some other maker then you probably don’t like actual 88H’s by definition. It’s like saying “I love classic Mustangs, so I drive a Tesla.”
Saying something is an “improved” 88H by “X-boutique” maker is a fallacy unless it’s made with actual Conn parts. Otherwise it’s just a different horn made under the inspiration of an 88H, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not an “improvement.” Maybe it’s an improvement for you and your playing specially, but it’s not an improvement on a design that is objectively one of the most successful models in trombone history, even still today.
It was time for another upgrade to this classic horn, so I’m hopeful this new 88HNV plays as well as Achilles makes it sound and as good as the Horn Guys pictures make it look. Everybody and their mother makes an 88H style instrument, but it’s never equal to an actual Conn. If you prefer an 88H style instrument from some other maker then you probably don’t like actual 88H’s by definition. It’s like saying “I love classic Mustangs, so I drive a Tesla.”
Saying something is an “improved” 88H by “X-boutique” maker is a fallacy unless it’s made with actual Conn parts. Otherwise it’s just a different horn made under the inspiration of an 88H, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not an “improvement.” Maybe it’s an improvement for you and your playing specially, but it’s not an improvement on a design that is objectively one of the most successful models in trombone history, even still today.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
If Tesla made a Mustang copy then your analogy would make more sense.
And I'm under 50 and almost all of my horns are from the Elkhart era, and i don't think they've been surpassed. If anything there are just fewer of them and a lot more brands to choose from.
And I'm under 50 and almost all of my horns are from the Elkhart era, and i don't think they've been surpassed. If anything there are just fewer of them and a lot more brands to choose from.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
The pre-judgment against this horn confuses me. I'm not a huge fan of Conns (and even less a fan of Conn-Selmer as a company) but I don't see any reason to be upset about this new model. The case looks as good as or better than most stock cases, relatively compact open valve wrap is nice (does it have E pull?), listed price is right in between Xeno and Strad which is probably about the tier they're aiming for. I'm not in the market for one of these, but if someone were thinking of buying a new 42b/88H/882 this looks to be about as reasonable an addition to the shortlist as any.
And it's nice to see some design iteration on both Bach and Conn trombone models - it's been what, almost 30 years since the last update to Conn trombones?
And it's nice to see some design iteration on both Bach and Conn trombone models - it's been what, almost 30 years since the last update to Conn trombones?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
[/quote]
Who??
Thankfully, you don't have to buy one. I for one am reasonably excited to go try one out at Hornguys when they get it.
As someone else said... I have some LA professional friends that play elky 88Hs, but not many that play tenor primarily. Those players are almost all on Shires, Edwards, Gen II Conns, etc.
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
[/quote]
Who??
Thankfully, you don't have to buy one. I for one am reasonably excited to go try one out at Hornguys when they get it.
As someone else said... I have some LA professional friends that play elky 88Hs, but not many that play tenor primarily. Those players are almost all on Shires, Edwards, Gen II Conns, etc.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="145887" time="1618325486" user_id="3709">
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
[/quote]
Who??
Thankfully, you don't have to buy one. I for one am reasonably excited to go try one out at Hornguys when they get it.
As someone else said... I have some LA professional friends that play elky 88Hs, but not many that play tenor primarily. Those players are almost all on Shires, Edwards, Gen II Conns, etc.
</QUOTE>
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
Did those friends chose Elkies or did they happen into them?
And I've said i wouldn't mind trying the new 88HNV, but based on what I've seen, what Steve has said and my disdain for Selmer I'm in no hurry. Hell, I'm not a Bach fan but that new 42 looks nice, but I've also played some newly built 42s and they were sorta not Bachish.
Personally, i think when Selmer bought UMI, they began streamlining production in order to save money and to push more Selmer product than other. Now there's nothing wrong in trying to be more cost effective, but when doing so changes the design of the other products, products that were once competitors, then my interest goes out the window.
The one overwhelming positive i can say is at least it's not a pos B.A.C. built horn.
There are a lot of other people on this forum that title is better suited to.
[/quote]
Who??
Thankfully, you don't have to buy one. I for one am reasonably excited to go try one out at Hornguys when they get it.
As someone else said... I have some LA professional friends that play elky 88Hs, but not many that play tenor primarily. Those players are almost all on Shires, Edwards, Gen II Conns, etc.
</QUOTE>
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
Did those friends chose Elkies or did they happen into them?
And I've said i wouldn't mind trying the new 88HNV, but based on what I've seen, what Steve has said and my disdain for Selmer I'm in no hurry. Hell, I'm not a Bach fan but that new 42 looks nice, but I've also played some newly built 42s and they were sorta not Bachish.
Personally, i think when Selmer bought UMI, they began streamlining production in order to save money and to push more Selmer product than other. Now there's nothing wrong in trying to be more cost effective, but when doing so changes the design of the other products, products that were once competitors, then my interest goes out the window.
The one overwhelming positive i can say is at least it's not a pos B.A.C. built horn.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
[/quote]
None of them seemed to have piped up a half dozen times in the last couple days...
[quote="Thrawn22"]
Did those friends chose Elkies or did they happen into them?
And I've said i wouldn't mind trying the new 88HNV, but based on what I've seen, what Steve has said and my disdain for Selmer I'm in no hurry. Hell, I'm not a Bach fan but that new 42 looks nice, but I've also played some newly built 42s and they were sorta not Bachish.
Personally, i think when Selmer bought UMI, they began streamlining production in order to save money and to push more Selmer product than other. Now there's nothing wrong in trying to be more cost effective, but when doing so changes the design of the other products, products that were once competitors, then my interest goes out the window.
[/quote]
One was recommended the horn, the others happened into them.
Companies have to move with the times. The 88H was sold basically unchanged for what, 45 years? The 42B for even longer now.
With the competition in their segment from Getzen, Q series, Chinese horns, they need to change things up, if nothing else than to just garner attention. The same reason the Gen II 88H was designed and released, or the myriad valve options for the 42 that have been offered. Now is no different.
There's not much point in worrying about the "character" of Conns and Bachs if they don't sell and eventually go out of business, like almost all of the other American makers have done.
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
[/quote]
None of them seemed to have piped up a half dozen times in the last couple days...
[quote="Thrawn22"]
Did those friends chose Elkies or did they happen into them?
And I've said i wouldn't mind trying the new 88HNV, but based on what I've seen, what Steve has said and my disdain for Selmer I'm in no hurry. Hell, I'm not a Bach fan but that new 42 looks nice, but I've also played some newly built 42s and they were sorta not Bachish.
Personally, i think when Selmer bought UMI, they began streamlining production in order to save money and to push more Selmer product than other. Now there's nothing wrong in trying to be more cost effective, but when doing so changes the design of the other products, products that were once competitors, then my interest goes out the window.
[/quote]
One was recommended the horn, the others happened into them.
Companies have to move with the times. The 88H was sold basically unchanged for what, 45 years? The 42B for even longer now.
With the competition in their segment from Getzen, Q series, Chinese horns, they need to change things up, if nothing else than to just garner attention. The same reason the Gen II 88H was designed and released, or the myriad valve options for the 42 that have been offered. Now is no different.
There's not much point in worrying about the "character" of Conns and Bachs if they don't sell and eventually go out of business, like almost all of the other American makers have done.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="145943" time="1618344604" user_id="3709">
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
[/quote]
None of them seemed to have piped up a half dozen times in the last couple days...
</QUOTE>
I don't pipe up, i chime in.
And i find their lack chiming in disturbing.
Isn't there a guy or two that have 88H in there online names?
[/quote]
None of them seemed to have piped up a half dozen times in the last couple days...
</QUOTE>
I don't pipe up, i chime in.
And i find their lack chiming in disturbing.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]OK Tbrawn22. I fixed your quote (I think).[/quote]
You're awesome!
You're awesome!
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
I hate to judge just based on specs, but no soldered bell can approach the feel of an Elkhart 88H. The "fuzz" that defines those instruments is lost.
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.
- castrubone
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Apr 09, 2018
[quote="paulyg"]I hate to judge just based on specs, but no soldered bell can approach the feel of an Elkhart 88H. The "fuzz" that defines those instruments is lost.
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.[/quote]
The minds in trombone chat are more closed off than the feel of the Elkhart 88H rotor. So many condemnations from so many people who have neither 1) seen it in person or 2) played it
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.[/quote]
The minds in trombone chat are more closed off than the feel of the Elkhart 88H rotor. So many condemnations from so many people who have neither 1) seen it in person or 2) played it
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
[quote="castrubone"]<QUOTE author="paulyg" post_id="145986" time="1618370034" user_id="3299">
I hate to judge just based on specs, but no soldered bell can approach the feel of an Elkhart 88H. The "fuzz" that defines those instruments is lost.
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.[/quote]
The minds in trombone chat are more closed off than the feel of the Elkhart 88H rotor. So many condemnations from so many people who have neither 1) seen it in person or 2) played it
</QUOTE>
If you think an Elkhart 88H rotor is tight, you've never played a good one.
I hate to judge just based on specs, but no soldered bell can approach the feel of an Elkhart 88H. The "fuzz" that defines those instruments is lost.
This is Conn-Selmer's second attempt at creating a "vintage" 88H. IMO it's their second failed attempt at fixing what wasn't broken.[/quote]
The minds in trombone chat are more closed off than the feel of the Elkhart 88H rotor. So many condemnations from so many people who have neither 1) seen it in person or 2) played it
</QUOTE>
If you think an Elkhart 88H rotor is tight, you've never played a good one.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The Elkhart 88H rotor is actually pretty good. The Lindberg CL rotor is better.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
A quick call around yesterday to dealers here in the UK where you could say the 88h is still the large bore of choice for most players, resulted in not only isn't there one in the country but also they hadn't been informed by UMI that the horn even exists
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="Vegasbound"]but also they hadn't been informed by UMI that the horn even exists[/quote]
Not surprising since UMI hasn't even existed in over 15 years either :P
Not surprising since UMI hasn't even existed in over 15 years either :P
- mattLockyer
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sep 22, 2019
[quote="Vegasbound"]A quick call around yesterday to dealers here in the UK where you could say the 88h is still the large bore of choice for most players, resulted in not only isn't there one in the country but also they hadn't been informed by UMI that the horn even exists[/quote]
well there missing out on at lest half there sales then :lol: Where I study in the uk 9/13 payers play a gen 2 conn 88h. If I was head of sales at Conn (or who ever it is) I would be sending them over ASAP
well there missing out on at lest half there sales then :lol: Where I study in the uk 9/13 payers play a gen 2 conn 88h. If I was head of sales at Conn (or who ever it is) I would be sending them over ASAP
- tombone21
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Nov 14, 2018
Couple of things about the horn that haven't been mentioned yet:
The valve, which at first looked just like a Gen II rotor, is now vented, and in a spot that I've never seen before. Most vented rotors I've seen put the hole on top, not to the side of the valve. I wonder what effect that may have.
The rest of the valve section is also interesting; again, a lot of intentional decisions seem to have been made. For one, there is not a second bell brace which has to make the horn considerably lighter. Conn/Selmer could have easily just added edge bracing like almost every other horn but did not. (Also just now realizing, no other 88H has ever had that second bell brace.)
Unlike past models, there now is no bracing on the bell flare or neckpipe! Very curious. It seems like the wrap maximizes the amount of tubing that is outlining the rest of the bell section, and is also braced very, very close to the bell section.
Like a lot of other brand's valve sections, there are two braces on the f attachment, but neither is on the f tuning slide itself.
I'm excited to try this, but like a lot of people, I think Conn could have gone so much farther with this much-anticipated design that several great players have been asking Conn to make for decades now.
The valve, which at first looked just like a Gen II rotor, is now vented, and in a spot that I've never seen before. Most vented rotors I've seen put the hole on top, not to the side of the valve. I wonder what effect that may have.
The rest of the valve section is also interesting; again, a lot of intentional decisions seem to have been made. For one, there is not a second bell brace which has to make the horn considerably lighter. Conn/Selmer could have easily just added edge bracing like almost every other horn but did not. (Also just now realizing, no other 88H has ever had that second bell brace.)
Unlike past models, there now is no bracing on the bell flare or neckpipe! Very curious. It seems like the wrap maximizes the amount of tubing that is outlining the rest of the bell section, and is also braced very, very close to the bell section.
Like a lot of other brand's valve sections, there are two braces on the f attachment, but neither is on the f tuning slide itself.
I'm excited to try this, but like a lot of people, I think Conn could have gone so much farther with this much-anticipated design that several great players have been asking Conn to make for decades now.
- EOlson9
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Apr 19, 2018
I'm eager to try one of these out, but ideally I'd like to try it with my .562 Conn/Butler slide. Either way I'm definitely interested, even if there's no way the Mrs. will allow me to buy another trombone.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
So much Elkhart hate from those calling Elkhart owners haters.
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
And calling "New Vintage" is silly. How can vintage be new?
If it plays great then cool. Again, my issues are that this latest incarnation of the 88H brings nothing new to the table whereas the new Bach 42 has a lot of features that make it stand out from other Bach 42s.
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
And calling "New Vintage" is silly. How can vintage be new?
If it plays great then cool. Again, my issues are that this latest incarnation of the 88H brings nothing new to the table whereas the new Bach 42 has a lot of features that make it stand out from other Bach 42s.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
[/quote]
Welcome to the business world! If it sells, they'll do it for the next 50 years.
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
[/quote]
Welcome to the business world! If it sells, they'll do it for the next 50 years.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146052" time="1618424550" user_id="3709">
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
[/quote]
Welcome to the business world! If it sells, they'll do it for the next 50 years.
</QUOTE>
I know how the world spins, I don't have to like it. I'm not a cat easily distracted by a laser pointer.
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done. People like Sandhagen, Jeff Gittleson , Eric Edwards and even Brad Close are doing great things with their small shops. And with companies like Instrument Innovations making quality product and affordable prices we as trombonist have plenty of avenues to get quality craftsmanship without being patronized by larger companies.
I just don't like gimmicks, which on the surface is all this horn is. It's like introducing a limited edition of a car with the only difference being a decal, fancy rims and an exclusive paint job. Get past the hype and you'll find it's the same car as the previous years and types.
[/quote]
Welcome to the business world! If it sells, they'll do it for the next 50 years.
</QUOTE>
I know how the world spins, I don't have to like it. I'm not a cat easily distracted by a laser pointer.
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done. People like Sandhagen, Jeff Gittleson , Eric Edwards and even Brad Close are doing great things with their small shops. And with companies like Instrument Innovations making quality product and affordable prices we as trombonist have plenty of avenues to get quality craftsmanship without being patronized by larger companies.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done.[/quote]
Then it sounds like you're not the market demographic. No problem with that, I'm not either... but I don't have to hate the company for doing what they need to to stay alive.
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done.[/quote]
Then it sounds like you're not the market demographic. No problem with that, I'm not either... but I don't have to hate the company for doing what they need to to stay alive.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146059" time="1618428744" user_id="3709">
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done.[/quote]
Then it sounds like you're not the market demographic. No problem with that, I'm not either... but I don't have to hate the company for doing what they need to to stay alive.
</QUOTE>
I don't hate Conn. I hate Selmer. Just like i don't hate star wars, i just hate Disney. And i don't want people to lose their jobs because of my dislikes about a paticular corporation, but as a consumer I'd like to be treated with more respect. It seems like most corporations have adopted the business model of "dump the older, long time consumer and start marketing to the younger, more naive consumer". Now i know that's a rather cynical approach, but in my experience with most things i have enjoyed that cynicism is justified. And prehaps that's why i like classic and vintage things, from horns to cars to movies etc.
Honestly, because of how i feel towards marketing by big companies, I'm having more custom work done.[/quote]
Then it sounds like you're not the market demographic. No problem with that, I'm not either... but I don't have to hate the company for doing what they need to to stay alive.
</QUOTE>
I don't hate Conn. I hate Selmer. Just like i don't hate star wars, i just hate Disney. And i don't want people to lose their jobs because of my dislikes about a paticular corporation, but as a consumer I'd like to be treated with more respect. It seems like most corporations have adopted the business model of "dump the older, long time consumer and start marketing to the younger, more naive consumer". Now i know that's a rather cynical approach, but in my experience with most things i have enjoyed that cynicism is justified. And prehaps that's why i like classic and vintage things, from horns to cars to movies etc.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Again... that's business. Every corporation of all time has done this. As they have to to stay relevant.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Again... that's business. Every corporation of all time has done this. As they have to to stay relevant.[/quote]
Or, maybe, make a quality product that they can stand behind without gimmicks?
Or, maybe, make a quality product that they can stand behind without gimmicks?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="146076" time="1618432740" user_id="3131">
Again... that's business. Every corporation of all time has done this. As they have to to stay relevant.[/quote]
Or, maybe, make a quality product that they can stand behind without gimmicks?
</QUOTE>
What's the gimmick?
Again... that's business. Every corporation of all time has done this. As they have to to stay relevant.[/quote]
Or, maybe, make a quality product that they can stand behind without gimmicks?
</QUOTE>
What's the gimmick?
- TheBoneRanger
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Apr 04, 2018
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
"Hey, so and so is playing the new and improved (insert generic brand/model)." But there's nothing new or improved of any real substance. They could've used Matthew McConaughey to market the horn and you'd get from younger trombone players "Wow! Matthew McConaughey plays (insert generic brand/model)" instead of asking the obvious questions an older more experienced player would ask like "Matthew McConaughey plays trombone"?
And as I've said before, in the overall agreement, that yes, i need to play the horn to make a final conclusion. But then i could say it wasn't great at all thus justifying my initial conclusion while someone would then argue maybe i tried a "bad" one. I have had only a couple of duds that were Elkhart Conns. Those, however, in comparison to the number of dud post-Elkhart horns I've played/tried/owned doesn't even come close. And the wrap on the 88HNV would've been innovative 30-40 years ago if it weren't, Minick inspired, other companies have been going to that style more and more and if i just didn't have almost the exact samething built for me.
So, from my perspective, there are gimmicks. Gimmicks which cover up lack of true innovation in design. Heck, as crappy and short lived K valves were, they were a gimmick from a marketing standpoint but at least it was something new and innovative.
And making new shiney elaborate engraving. That's a gimmick too.
And as I've said before, in the overall agreement, that yes, i need to play the horn to make a final conclusion. But then i could say it wasn't great at all thus justifying my initial conclusion while someone would then argue maybe i tried a "bad" one. I have had only a couple of duds that were Elkhart Conns. Those, however, in comparison to the number of dud post-Elkhart horns I've played/tried/owned doesn't even come close. And the wrap on the 88HNV would've been innovative 30-40 years ago if it weren't, Minick inspired, other companies have been going to that style more and more and if i just didn't have almost the exact samething built for me.
So, from my perspective, there are gimmicks. Gimmicks which cover up lack of true innovation in design. Heck, as crappy and short lived K valves were, they were a gimmick from a marketing standpoint but at least it was something new and innovative.
And making new shiney elaborate engraving. That's a gimmick too.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="TheBoneRanger"]Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
- Peacemate
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Apr 07, 2020
[quote="Thrawn22"]<QUOTE author="TheBoneRanger" post_id="146100" time="1618445017" user_id="2973">
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
This has been a really entertaining topic. If the 88HNV is nothing else, at least it gave us this!
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="Thrawn22"]<QUOTE author="TheBoneRanger" post_id="146100" time="1618445017" user_id="2973">
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
Fine, it's not for you then, just walk away.
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
Fine, it's not for you then, just walk away.
- EOlson9
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Apr 19, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]This has been a really entertaining topic. If the 88HNV is nothing else, at least it gave us this![/quote]
You should see some of the posts on Sax on the Web about the Selmer Supreme alto sax....
You should see some of the posts on Sax on the Web about the Selmer Supreme alto sax....
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="spencercarran"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146102" time="1618445566" user_id="3709">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.[/quote]
Fine, it's not for you then, just walk away.
</QUOTE>
Nah.
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.[/quote]
Fine, it's not for you then, just walk away.
</QUOTE>
Nah.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="EOlson9"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="146105" time="1618446414" user_id="3131">
This has been a really entertaining topic. If the 88HNV is nothing else, at least it gave us this![/quote]
You should see some of the posts on Sax on the Web about the Selmer Supreme alto sax....
</QUOTE>
I can only imagine how those debates and topics can be.
This has been a really entertaining topic. If the 88HNV is nothing else, at least it gave us this![/quote]
You should see some of the posts on Sax on the Web about the Selmer Supreme alto sax....
</QUOTE>
I can only imagine how those debates and topics can be.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I'm maybe a little late, but ...
I'm a life long 88h owner. But I usually play a 525 slide on mine, and even my 547 slide has had the cork barrel/grip assembly replaced with a modern one with a removable leadpipe, so it's not 100% vintage. (even so, I play horns other than the 88h - I mostly play a small bore Courtois, or a Chinese euphonium, or an Olds Recording, or my Kanstul bass, or my Conn-Bach-Blessing frankenbone, so I'm not married to a single horn or a single brand or a single era)
About 15 years ago I bought a gen2 8h with a 525 slide from Steve Ferguson, and it was every bit the horn that my Elkhart is. I'd like a chance to play the new models. That will be the way to tell how good they are.
But at the same time I've passed over a number of Conns, new and old. I don't think there's a new small bore Conn that doesn't bore me. Opposite is true for Shires - I don't like the big ones, but the MD+ is one of the best horns I've ever owned.
Just to say that horns are more complex than you can usually capture in specs. So you don't really know how it plays until you play one. I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet. Even the Shires that people faun over seem rather... sterile... free of personality to me. I grew up with that 88h sound in my head, and it remains. It's a good sound. So is my 79h. And all the other horns I've kept after a few years of ebay and trombone forum classifieds safari. It's complex. There is no one factor that overrides everything else. And then there's personal taste...
I'm a life long 88h owner. But I usually play a 525 slide on mine, and even my 547 slide has had the cork barrel/grip assembly replaced with a modern one with a removable leadpipe, so it's not 100% vintage. (even so, I play horns other than the 88h - I mostly play a small bore Courtois, or a Chinese euphonium, or an Olds Recording, or my Kanstul bass, or my Conn-Bach-Blessing frankenbone, so I'm not married to a single horn or a single brand or a single era)
About 15 years ago I bought a gen2 8h with a 525 slide from Steve Ferguson, and it was every bit the horn that my Elkhart is. I'd like a chance to play the new models. That will be the way to tell how good they are.
But at the same time I've passed over a number of Conns, new and old. I don't think there's a new small bore Conn that doesn't bore me. Opposite is true for Shires - I don't like the big ones, but the MD+ is one of the best horns I've ever owned.
Just to say that horns are more complex than you can usually capture in specs. So you don't really know how it plays until you play one. I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet. Even the Shires that people faun over seem rather... sterile... free of personality to me. I grew up with that 88h sound in my head, and it remains. It's a good sound. So is my 79h. And all the other horns I've kept after a few years of ebay and trombone forum classifieds safari. It's complex. There is no one factor that overrides everything else. And then there's personal taste...
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]
I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet.[/quote]
Going back to gimmicks, remember when companies were cryogenic freezing horns to change the horn at the molecular level to change, hopefully, the sound to a more vintage sound?
I have Gen II (i think. It's an early 2000s horn. If I'm wrong i don't mind being corrected) 8H an ex bought me. She bought it because i expressed a passing interest in it and her Sam Ash discount brought the price down. It played ok, but as it was a gift, and while it was B stock, it was my first ever shiny new horn. Had it a week before it rolled off the top of my car in my double bag and crumpled the bell. After the Boneyard fixed straighted it out it played better. I never used it much since i didn't do anything legit at the time. The past few years, before i bought my Elkharts, I've had more work done and it plays vastly better than when i first got it. Stuff that comes off the line nowadays is more hit and miss imo. Now, that being said, every company goes thru periods where quality is deficient compared to other periods where quality is better (Abilene Conns come to mind, but I've played a few good Texas Conns) and I'll be honest, the slide my from my '68 8H sounded like crap with the bell it was paired with. The Eastlake 2547 slide i have with it sounds stellar. But in my experience, as far as consistency and craftsmanship go, the Elkharts I've played have been way better than newer horns I've tried. But as was stated before and as i have agreed that trying this new 88H will be the only way to determine its worth.
I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet.[/quote]
Going back to gimmicks, remember when companies were cryogenic freezing horns to change the horn at the molecular level to change, hopefully, the sound to a more vintage sound?
I have Gen II (i think. It's an early 2000s horn. If I'm wrong i don't mind being corrected) 8H an ex bought me. She bought it because i expressed a passing interest in it and her Sam Ash discount brought the price down. It played ok, but as it was a gift, and while it was B stock, it was my first ever shiny new horn. Had it a week before it rolled off the top of my car in my double bag and crumpled the bell. After the Boneyard fixed straighted it out it played better. I never used it much since i didn't do anything legit at the time. The past few years, before i bought my Elkharts, I've had more work done and it plays vastly better than when i first got it. Stuff that comes off the line nowadays is more hit and miss imo. Now, that being said, every company goes thru periods where quality is deficient compared to other periods where quality is better (Abilene Conns come to mind, but I've played a few good Texas Conns) and I'll be honest, the slide my from my '68 8H sounded like crap with the bell it was paired with. The Eastlake 2547 slide i have with it sounds stellar. But in my experience, as far as consistency and craftsmanship go, the Elkharts I've played have been way better than newer horns I've tried. But as was stated before and as i have agreed that trying this new 88H will be the only way to determine its worth.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I don't really get the hate. I'd be curious to try one. And a new addition in the 88H range at that price point is totally welcome. It's not like they're introducing a new, much more pricy line that isn't actually bringing a anything new.
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.[/quote]
Pretty sure almost every part there is from the current parts bin- closed wrap and open wrap 88H parts in a different configuration. Very cheap and sensible, but not especially good looking!
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.[/quote]
Pretty sure almost every part there is from the current parts bin- closed wrap and open wrap 88H parts in a different configuration. Very cheap and sensible, but not especially good looking!
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="LeTromboniste" post_id="146171" time="1618508210" user_id="3038">
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.[/quote]
Pretty sure almost every part there is from the current parts bin- closed wrap and open wrap 88H parts in a different configuration. Very cheap and sensible, but not especially good looking!
</QUOTE>
I've seen Minick conversions like that. The Boneyard did my wrap that way at my request. Aiden's correct in that they're parts that the factory already had.
That wrap is hideous though. I like the concept of the wrap (tons of other versions of that circuit shape around that are really nice), but the execution... Ouch. With all these ferrules around the bends it looks like a wrap re-build made by some tech using parts that were lying around rather than a carefully engineered factory build.[/quote]
Pretty sure almost every part there is from the current parts bin- closed wrap and open wrap 88H parts in a different configuration. Very cheap and sensible, but not especially good looking!
</QUOTE>
I've seen Minick conversions like that. The Boneyard did my wrap that way at my request. Aiden's correct in that they're parts that the factory already had.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]<QUOTE author="TheBoneRanger" post_id="146100" time="1618445017" user_id="2973">
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
I have a theory that anyone who can't see the humor in his podcast (in which he interviewed the same guy every episode on a variety of subjects the guy had no insight into) is a hostile alien from another planet.
<YOUTUBE id="Ja5FLnuVKPA">[media]https://youtu.be/Ja5FLnuVKPA</YOUTUBE>
Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.
</QUOTE>
I have a theory that anyone who can't see the humor in his podcast (in which he interviewed the same guy every episode on a variety of subjects the guy had no insight into) is a hostile alien from another planet.
<YOUTUBE id="Ja5FLnuVKPA">
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="TheBoneRanger"]Man, I do not understand the tone of so many posts on the forum lately. I'm reminded of this:
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
I agree with the Ranger’s comments regarding the tone of many comments posted here these days. Gervais kind of nails it. “I don’t want no fucking guitar lessons.” “The Elkhart 88Hs were rubbish.” “You’re an idiot.”
I’m reminded of the saying that university politics are vicious because the stakes are so small. And it’s not just here on TTC.
I don’t know why everyone is on edge.
I really, really wanted to like a new Elkhart 88H I bought a while back. It just didn’t work out and I ended up buying some random Shires parts off the Internet.
<YOUTUBE id="L3dxMGzt5mU">
I agree with the Ranger’s comments regarding the tone of many comments posted here these days. Gervais kind of nails it. “I don’t want no fucking guitar lessons.” “The Elkhart 88Hs were rubbish.” “You’re an idiot.”
I’m reminded of the saying that university politics are vicious because the stakes are so small. And it’s not just here on TTC.
I don’t know why everyone is on edge.
I really, really wanted to like a new Elkhart 88H I bought a while back. It just didn’t work out and I ended up buying some random Shires parts off the Internet.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]"Hey, so and so is playing the new and improved (insert generic brand/model)." But there's nothing new or improved of any real substance. They could've used Matthew McConaughey to market the horn and <U>you'd get from younger trombone players "Wow! Matthew McConaughey plays (insert generic brand/model)" </U>instead of asking the obvious questions an older more experienced player would ask like "Matthew McConaughey plays trombone"?[/quote]
Hahaha define "young" -- this reference is dated by nearly three decades. That guy was popular with young people in like 1993-1997. Then he appeared in Contact...
But yes, I'd be surprised if he played the trombone!
Hahaha define "young" -- this reference is dated by nearly three decades. That guy was popular with young people in like 1993-1997. Then he appeared in Contact...
But yes, I'd be surprised if he played the trombone!
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146101" time="1618445483" user_id="3709">
"Hey, so and so is playing the new and improved (insert generic brand/model)." But there's nothing new or improved of any real substance. They could've used Matthew McConaughey to market the horn and <U>you'd get from younger trombone players "Wow! Matthew McConaughey plays (insert generic brand/model)" </U>instead of asking the obvious questions an older more experienced player would ask like "Matthew McConaughey plays trombone"?[/quote]
Hahaha define "young" -- this reference is dated by nearly three decades. That guy was popular with young people in like 1993-1997. Then he appeared in Contact...
But yes, I'd be surprised if he played the trombone!
</QUOTE>
Alright alright alright.
"Hey, so and so is playing the new and improved (insert generic brand/model)." But there's nothing new or improved of any real substance. They could've used Matthew McConaughey to market the horn and <U>you'd get from younger trombone players "Wow! Matthew McConaughey plays (insert generic brand/model)" </U>instead of asking the obvious questions an older more experienced player would ask like "Matthew McConaughey plays trombone"?[/quote]
Hahaha define "young" -- this reference is dated by nearly three decades. That guy was popular with young people in like 1993-1997. Then he appeared in Contact...
But yes, I'd be surprised if he played the trombone!
</QUOTE>
Alright alright alright.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="146393" time="1618636795" user_id="3642">
Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
</QUOTE>
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:
Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
</QUOTE>
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="146394" time="1618637002" user_id="3131">
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...[/quote]
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:
</QUOTE>
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...[/quote]
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:
</QUOTE>
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Thrawn22"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="146395" time="1618638281" user_id="3642">
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:[/quote]
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.
</QUOTE>
I bet it plays great though. I see that yours doesn't have the extra bend in the wrap to bring it below the bells like the new version does.
Oh, it looks almost exactly like the new horn but beat up. And he called his own horn "meh"?
:???:[/quote]
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.
</QUOTE>
I bet it plays great though. I see that yours doesn't have the extra bend in the wrap to bring it below the bells like the new version does.
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146463" time="1618706915" user_id="3709">
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.[/quote]
I bet it plays great though. I see that yours doesn't have the extra bend in the wrap to bring it below the bells like the new version does.
</QUOTE>
Huh. Well I'll be damned. I didn't notice that before. Thanks for pointing that out. So i guess that makes it slightly different than the Minick conversion.
It does. Before i got lucky finding an Elkhart 88H bell on ebay for a reasonable price (great price actually), i was toying with making my '68 8H bell section convertable. I've gotten along for a long time using an 8H, but having a valve on lower parts makes it easier on me and i think makes those who hear with their eyes more comfortable. Sandhagen did a great job.
Lol. I can't post a pic without having text. Say what you will but it plays great and I'd put it up against new out. But to each their own.[/quote]
I bet it plays great though. I see that yours doesn't have the extra bend in the wrap to bring it below the bells like the new version does.
</QUOTE>
Huh. Well I'll be damned. I didn't notice that before. Thanks for pointing that out. So i guess that makes it slightly different than the Minick conversion.
It does. Before i got lucky finding an Elkhart 88H bell on ebay for a reasonable price (great price actually), i was toying with making my '68 8H bell section convertable. I've gotten along for a long time using an 8H, but having a valve on lower parts makes it easier on me and i think makes those who hear with their eyes more comfortable. Sandhagen did a great job.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The 88HNV looks a bit more "pit-friendly" with an F-attachment wrap that doesn't project so far to the rear.
Much more compact than an 88HO.
Note the "First Look" commentary on the HornGuys Website.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... 45d4&_ss=r">https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn-88hnv-new-vintage-tenor-trombone?_pos=1&_sid=3f32c45d4&_ss=r</LINK_TEXT>
Much more compact than an 88HO.
Note the "First Look" commentary on the HornGuys Website.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... 45d4&_ss=r">https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn-88hnv-new-vintage-tenor-trombone?_pos=1&_sid=3f32c45d4&_ss=r</LINK_TEXT>
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Did the Gen II 88HT ever have an unsoldered bead?
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="146393" time="1618636795" user_id="3642">
Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
</QUOTE>
I was confused about that; the valve wrap is certainly different (and the production 88HNV wrap looks better than that one IMO)
Is that the new model? Looks like it comes with red rot on the bell out of the box.
Look at the bell near the tuning slide
Actually, that thing looks well used. How is that the new model[/quote]
It's the horn he had John Sandhagen put together for him. Not sure what it has to do with the HNV...
</QUOTE>
I was confused about that; the valve wrap is certainly different (and the production 88HNV wrap looks better than that one IMO)
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Did the Gen II 88HT ever have an unsoldered bead?[/quote]
I don't believe so. The Gen II 62Hs are soldered, too.
I don't believe so. The Gen II 62Hs are soldered, too.
- skeletal
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Nov 19, 2020
[quote="Peacemate"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="146102" time="1618445566" user_id="3709">
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.[/quote]
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.
</QUOTE>
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.
Ricky Gervais is an unfunny ass that gets WAY too much attention for his dribble.[/quote]
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.
</QUOTE>
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="skeletal"]<QUOTE author="Peacemate" post_id="146104" time="1618445994" user_id="9017">
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.[/quote]
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.
</QUOTE>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen ... ion%20bias">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency%20illusion%2C%20also%20known%20as,a%20form%20of%20selection%20bias</LINK_TEXT>).
I think it does fit some posts here.
Funny how literally an hour after I learn the name of Ricky Gervais I see him pop up on TromboneChat of all places.[/quote]
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.
</QUOTE>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen ... ion%20bias">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency%20illusion%2C%20also%20known%20as,a%20form%20of%20selection%20bias</LINK_TEXT>).
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="skeletal" post_id="146527" time="1618832876" user_id="10683">
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.[/quote]
<LINK_TEXT text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen ... ion%20bias">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency%20illusion%2C%20also%20known%20as,a%20form%20of%20selection%20bias</LINK_TEXT>).
</QUOTE>
Good find, Aidan! :good:
There's got to be a name for that phenomenon.[/quote]
<LINK_TEXT text="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen ... ion%20bias">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion#:~:text=Frequency%20illusion%2C%20also%20known%20as,a%20form%20of%20selection%20bias</LINK_TEXT>).
</QUOTE>
Good find, Aidan! :good:
- Bach42t
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Aug 11, 2018
This is great news but I can tell you I have a sneaking suspicion when this new Conn is formally released to the wild, that MAP pricing is going to be higher. Steve may be generously passing along the savings for his as they are initial production. In fact, I will bet the case and engraving follow with the rest of the Conn 8* models and they get a price bump including the Lindbergs. Traditionally C-S pricing increases in the fall timeframe. I would have to reason the retail for the 88HV is more than likely $3,300. P.S. - I’m a bean counter/budget guy by trade so I just look at numbers most of the day, but when it involves trombones I have a level of excitement that above norm.
- Pistolero
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Apr 29, 2021
[quote="hyperbolica"]I'm maybe a little late, but ...
I'm a life long 88h owner. But I usually play a 525 slide on mine, and even my 547 slide has had the cork barrel/grip assembly replaced with a modern one with a removable leadpipe, so it's not 100% vintage. (even so, I play horns other than the 88h - I mostly play a small bore Courtois, or a Chinese euphonium, or an Olds Recording, or my Kanstul bass, or my Conn-Bach-Blessing frankenbone, so I'm not married to a single horn or a single brand or a single era)
About 15 years ago I bought a gen2 8h with a 525 slide from Steve Ferguson, and it was every bit the horn that my Elkhart is. I'd like a chance to play the new models. That will be the way to tell how good they are.
But at the same time I've passed over a number of Conns, new and old. I don't think there's a new small bore Conn that doesn't bore me. Opposite is true for Shires - I don't like the big ones, but the MD+ is one of the best horns I've ever owned.
Just to say that horns are more complex than you can usually capture in specs. So you don't really know how it plays until you play one. I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet. Even the Shires that people faun over seem rather... sterile... free of personality to me. I grew up with that 88h sound in my head, and it remains. It's a good sound. So is my 79h. And all the other horns I've kept after a few years of ebay and trombone forum classifieds safari. It's complex. There is no one factor that overrides everything else. And then there's personal taste...[/quote]
New to the Board, but can you put a 52H slide on a 88H?
I'm a life long 88h owner. But I usually play a 525 slide on mine, and even my 547 slide has had the cork barrel/grip assembly replaced with a modern one with a removable leadpipe, so it's not 100% vintage. (even so, I play horns other than the 88h - I mostly play a small bore Courtois, or a Chinese euphonium, or an Olds Recording, or my Kanstul bass, or my Conn-Bach-Blessing frankenbone, so I'm not married to a single horn or a single brand or a single era)
About 15 years ago I bought a gen2 8h with a 525 slide from Steve Ferguson, and it was every bit the horn that my Elkhart is. I'd like a chance to play the new models. That will be the way to tell how good they are.
But at the same time I've passed over a number of Conns, new and old. I don't think there's a new small bore Conn that doesn't bore me. Opposite is true for Shires - I don't like the big ones, but the MD+ is one of the best horns I've ever owned.
Just to say that horns are more complex than you can usually capture in specs. So you don't really know how it plays until you play one. I think age is a factor in how some horns play. If they could reproduce that, they would, but they haven't yet. Even the Shires that people faun over seem rather... sterile... free of personality to me. I grew up with that 88h sound in my head, and it remains. It's a good sound. So is my 79h. And all the other horns I've kept after a few years of ebay and trombone forum classifieds safari. It's complex. There is no one factor that overrides everything else. And then there's personal taste...[/quote]
New to the Board, but can you put a 52H slide on a 88H?
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Yeah, I think that works.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"][url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/CO_ktEngGZd ... bJetAY500/">https://www.instagram.com/p/CO_ktEngGZdZ03E0w_lSzSEPIZ4UJMbJetAY500/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Sorry - can't see. Says I need a Facebook account. :?
Sorry - can't see. Says I need a Facebook account. :?
- Andyc
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Jun 24, 2020
Has anyone had a chance to try one yet? How does it compare to a vintage Elkhart 88H? If so what are your thoughts?
- EOlson9
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Apr 19, 2018
Keith Hilson at the Schmitt Music Trombone Shop posted a video just recently about it. His is the part 2 video, as the other guy (can't remember his name) did his own, as part 1.
- EOlson9
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Apr 19, 2018
Makes me want to have my store get one in for me to demo, but I don't have the cash to buy one... :(
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Slidennis"]What Steve Ferguson says about : <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... r-trombone">https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn-88hnv-new-vintage-tenor-trombone</LINK_TEXT>[/quote] I saw that. I'm not that much on the up and up with Conn 88H bells. Do they normally have a brazing seam on the spout? I remember that they weld the flares onto the spout of the bell, so there usually isn't a brazing line there.
- Slidennis
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Jan 08, 2019
[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="Slidennis" post_id="155204" time="1629193301" user_id="4264">
What Steve Ferguson says about : <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... r-trombone">https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn-88hnv-new-vintage-tenor-trombone</LINK_TEXT>[/quote] I saw that. I'm not that much on the up and up with Conn 88H bells. Do they normally have a brazing seam on the spout? I remember that they weld the flares onto the spout of the bell, so there usually isn't a brazing line there.
</QUOTE>
IIRC, brazing is when you use de metal itself to make the joint, and soldering, when you use another alloy...
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).
What Steve Ferguson says about : <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... r-trombone">https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn-88hnv-new-vintage-tenor-trombone</LINK_TEXT>[/quote] I saw that. I'm not that much on the up and up with Conn 88H bells. Do they normally have a brazing seam on the spout? I remember that they weld the flares onto the spout of the bell, so there usually isn't a brazing line there.
</QUOTE>
IIRC, brazing is when you use de metal itself to make the joint, and soldering, when you use another alloy...
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Slidennis"]IIRC, brazing is when you use de metal itself to make the joint, and soldering, when you use another alloy...
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).[/quote] I think this indicates the differences the best: "Brazing differs from welding in that it does not involve melting the work pieces and from soldering in using higher temperatures for a similar process, while also requiring much more closely fitted parts than when soldering"
The seams in bells are brazed together with by melting brass into the joint. That's why the line looks yellow: they use yellow brass for the brazing. Often, for yellow brass bells they use red brass to braze, and vice versa, so that they can see the seam, and then put it on the bottom of the bell where it is least noticeable.
If there is no brazing seam visible, then the connection is welded.
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).[/quote] I think this indicates the differences the best: "Brazing differs from welding in that it does not involve melting the work pieces and from soldering in using higher temperatures for a similar process, while also requiring much more closely fitted parts than when soldering"
The seams in bells are brazed together with by melting brass into the joint. That's why the line looks yellow: they use yellow brass for the brazing. Often, for yellow brass bells they use red brass to braze, and vice versa, so that they can see the seam, and then put it on the bottom of the bell where it is least noticeable.
If there is no brazing seam visible, then the connection is welded.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Soldered bell = boooooooo
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="Slidennis" post_id="155213" time="1629209249" user_id="4264">IIRC, brazing is when you use de metal itself to make the joint, and soldering, when you use another alloy...
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).[/quote] I think this indicates the differences the best: "Brazing differs from welding in that it does not involve melting the work pieces and from soldering in using higher temperatures for a similar process, while also requiring much more closely fitted parts than when soldering"
The seams in bells are brazed together with by melting brass into the joint. That's why the line looks yellow: they use yellow brass for the brazing. Often, for yellow brass bells they use red brass to braze, and vice versa, so that they can see the seam, and then put it on the bottom of the bell where it is least noticeable.
If there is no brazing seam visible, then the connection is welded.
</QUOTE>
I don't think you can braze yellow brass using red brass solder, as the melting temperature increases with the copper content. Logically, if you tried to braze yellow brass using red brass solder, you'd burn through the bell before your solder has even melted.
It is possible to have a very discreet seam, quasi invisible, by using brass solder that is as close as possible in composition to the piece you're soldering, but the closer you get, the smaller the margin between the melting points is, and the trickier it is to solder without destroying the piece.
So, on my 88HTO bell, there is soldering of the spout (yellow line) that is brazed onto the flare (you don't see a solder line between the spout and the flare).[/quote] I think this indicates the differences the best: "Brazing differs from welding in that it does not involve melting the work pieces and from soldering in using higher temperatures for a similar process, while also requiring much more closely fitted parts than when soldering"
The seams in bells are brazed together with by melting brass into the joint. That's why the line looks yellow: they use yellow brass for the brazing. Often, for yellow brass bells they use red brass to braze, and vice versa, so that they can see the seam, and then put it on the bottom of the bell where it is least noticeable.
If there is no brazing seam visible, then the connection is welded.
</QUOTE>
I don't think you can braze yellow brass using red brass solder, as the melting temperature increases with the copper content. Logically, if you tried to braze yellow brass using red brass solder, you'd burn through the bell before your solder has even melted.
It is possible to have a very discreet seam, quasi invisible, by using brass solder that is as close as possible in composition to the piece you're soldering, but the closer you get, the smaller the margin between the melting points is, and the trickier it is to solder without destroying the piece.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Brazing still uses a filler, but a filler with higher melting point than lead/Solder. I think silver is used for that.
Yamaha uses welding where the same metal is used to join the stem and flare. I'm guessing that's the process Horn Guys is saying is being used on the new Conns. Elkharts are high temp brazed, so they have a visible colored seam along the stem and one around the flare. Welding is much higher temp than brazing. I'm sure the bells require a lot of annealing and other heat treat processes to get them back where they need to be after welding.
Yamaha uses welding where the same metal is used to join the stem and flare. I'm guessing that's the process Horn Guys is saying is being used on the new Conns. Elkharts are high temp brazed, so they have a visible colored seam along the stem and one around the flare. Welding is much higher temp than brazing. I'm sure the bells require a lot of annealing and other heat treat processes to get them back where they need to be after welding.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Brazing brass can use a brass filler or a copper filler. Using a brass filler of the same zinc content as the items to be brazed can minimize any visible seam line.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Has anyone seen an 8hnv version? That's where I'd be interested. The 88hnv looks good, but I've already got all the 547 I need.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Steve has the bell rim thing backwards.
Soldered bell rims can bleed, "because" they're soldered. Non-soldered bell rims don't bleed, because they're "not" soldered.
Soldered bell rims can bleed, "because" they're soldered. Non-soldered bell rims don't bleed, because they're "not" soldered.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]Steve has the bell rim thing backwards.
Soldered bell rims can bleed, "because" they're soldered. Non-soldered bell rims don't bleed, because they're "not" soldered.[/quote]
Yeah, I noticed that too.
But he definitely uses the word "welded" when describing how the stem is attached to the flare. But if the stem is soldered, wouldn't welding the flare on blow out the solder joint? Yamaha has been welding bells for a long time, so this isn't really new, but if they can improve on the old Elkhart bells, I'd get one. I don't think this has to be something the world has never seen before to be interesting. If it were something new, it wouldn't be an 88h. It would be some other number, and you'd have other expectations. Your expectations are pretty locked in when you use the model number 88h, at least mine are.
Soldered bell rims can bleed, "because" they're soldered. Non-soldered bell rims don't bleed, because they're "not" soldered.[/quote]
Yeah, I noticed that too.
But he definitely uses the word "welded" when describing how the stem is attached to the flare. But if the stem is soldered, wouldn't welding the flare on blow out the solder joint? Yamaha has been welding bells for a long time, so this isn't really new, but if they can improve on the old Elkhart bells, I'd get one. I don't think this has to be something the world has never seen before to be interesting. If it were something new, it wouldn't be an 88h. It would be some other number, and you'd have other expectations. Your expectations are pretty locked in when you use the model number 88h, at least mine are.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
The type of brazing that is done to join the seam on the stem is a very high heat process. It isn't "soldering" as such. Similar process, just different material and heat requirement.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I must be the odd duck out, I actually like the open-but-barely wrap on this one :lol: I'm not a fan of the way open wraps look usually, especially on Conns and Yamaha. Just too narrow for me. Which is ironic because I'm toying with putting on on my Shires or parting out my Shires stuff.
At any rate, I wonder if Steve wrote that up and they changed the specs on him and he only updated some of the wording on the ad. I also wonder if the reason for the soldered bell bead is that these horns may be used on other CS products as their screw bell model. IIRC, the Ralph Sauer bell on the Shires is similar to a 1RVET7 or somthing rather than a 2RVET7 which I always assumed was to counter the effect of the heavier screw bell components. Pure speculation on my part.
At any rate, I wonder if Steve wrote that up and they changed the specs on him and he only updated some of the wording on the ad. I also wonder if the reason for the soldered bell bead is that these horns may be used on other CS products as their screw bell model. IIRC, the Ralph Sauer bell on the Shires is similar to a 1RVET7 or somthing rather than a 2RVET7 which I always assumed was to counter the effect of the heavier screw bell components. Pure speculation on my part.
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]Has anyone seen an 8hnv version? That's where I'd be interested. The 88hnv looks good, but I've already got all the 547 I need.[/quote]
I played one at ITF. It wasn't bad, but my Greenhoe 88H is, for me, a much better instrument. It's a decent horn, interesting looking, but wasn't life-changing. :)
I played one at ITF. It wasn't bad, but my Greenhoe 88H is, for me, a much better instrument. It's a decent horn, interesting looking, but wasn't life-changing. :)
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="LeTromboniste"]I don't think you can braze yellow brass using red brass solder, as the melting temperature increases with the copper content. Logically, if you tried to braze yellow brass using red brass solder, you'd burn through the bell before your solder has even melted.
It is possible to have a very discreet seam, quasi invisible, by using brass solder that is as close as possible in composition to the piece you're soldering, but the closer you get, the smaller the margin between the melting points is, and the trickier it is to solder without destroying the piece.[/quote] I had asked Kanstul a question back in 2014 regarding why I couldn't see the seam on my 1570CR bell, but could on my 1588CR bell:
Also, the brazed seams on my Bach 42 and my King 3b definitely show a brazing material that is more "red" than the yellow brass of the bell. The 3B also has a brazed seam between the spout and flare as well.
It is possible to have a very discreet seam, quasi invisible, by using brass solder that is as close as possible in composition to the piece you're soldering, but the closer you get, the smaller the margin between the melting points is, and the trickier it is to solder without destroying the piece.[/quote] I had asked Kanstul a question back in 2014 regarding why I couldn't see the seam on my 1570CR bell, but could on my 1588CR bell:
David,
Both of these bells are brazed together.....
The 1570 has a yellow brass bell and the brazing material for this is an exact match so you cannot see the seam.
The 1588 has a bronze bell and the brazing material for this is not an exact match so that is why you can see the seam.
As for the engraving.....we did change our engraving on our horns a few years ago and that is why there is a difference.
Carrie
KMI
Also, the brazed seams on my Bach 42 and my King 3b definitely show a brazing material that is more "red" than the yellow brass of the bell. The 3B also has a brazed seam between the spout and flare as well.
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not :)
- Bach42t
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Aug 11, 2018
[quote="TromboneSam"]My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not :)[/quote]
Great, you can play it at my retirement ceremony (in less than 5 years) if you are up to it. I think I might take up salsa trombone after my Army career is done. :D
Great, you can play it at my retirement ceremony (in less than 5 years) if you are up to it. I think I might take up salsa trombone after my Army career is done. :D
- Boneuphtoner
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Jul 05, 2018
I got to play one of these recently. Aside from the slide that had so-so action out of the box, I thought it played very well and had a beautiful tone quality. I haven't played an 88H in years, but it seemed to have a darker, thicker tone quality as compared to what I remembered from years ago. It would be interesting to compare this against a stock 88H.
- sstelmack
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Dec 23, 2021
I just played one of these this morning. I really liked it. The upper range was really easy for me on this horn. The only thing I was a bit iffy on it was the slide is really close to the bell. I kept hitting my fingers on the way up the slide. That is something I think I would just get used to though. If I needed a new horn, I probably would get one of these.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="TromboneSam"]My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not :)[/quote]
So... Does it?
So... Does it?
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="TromboneSam" post_id="157481" time="1631650550" user_id="3584">
My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not :)[/quote]
So... Does it?
</QUOTE>
It actually showed up last week but supposedly the army bureaucrats have decided that while it has arrived at the warehouse, our band is not allowed to touch it yet. Hopefully they let us have it by the end of the week :idk:
My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not :)[/quote]
So... Does it?
</QUOTE>
It actually showed up last week but supposedly the army bureaucrats have decided that while it has arrived at the warehouse, our band is not allowed to touch it yet. Hopefully they let us have it by the end of the week :idk:
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
It’s here!
Came in yesterday. How come nobody mentioned how nice the case is?? Compact quilted leather??? Also the bell engraving is super pretty.
<IMGUR id="a/fKODhi2">https://imgur.com/a/fKODhi2</IMGUR>
Some first impressions:
The slide was absolute dogshit out of the box. Would not move smoothly, sounded scratchy, kept sticking. Seems almost like the factory did not buff the inside of the outers. I wiped off the inners, applied some of the conn slide cream that the horn came with and spritzed with water and it’s manageable. Given the time to work some yamasnot or slideomix into the slide I’m sure it’ll be like lightning. Slide lock is very stiff but doesn’t feel like it has tight tolerances. Almost feels scratchy to move. A very very small amount of lanolin would probably fix it right up. There are also some lacquer imperfections on the slide lock.
I’m not up to date with leadpipes but this does not have the remington shank. Did they stop putting them in all modern 88h’s? Mouthpiece sits even higher that it does on my army Bach 42 and Edwards 396-AR. Doesn’t seem too high though.
Intonation is pretty nice. B flat on the 2nd line is a tad sharp; top of the staff and the one above it are also right in tune.
High D slots, centers, and projects VERY nicely. Even the F above that feels nice and full.
Middle register is all nice, easy, and centered. The bell is pretty thin, so it resonates something wonderful.
My low register sucks but this horn helped a little. The trigger is pretty good and air through the wrap felt barely any different than air not through the wrap. Does that mean it’s an open blow? Tight blow? Even blow? Idk
The valve when dry was barely noisy at all but still didn’t really quiet down with Bach rotor oil. Again, almost feels scratchy to use. Kinda like it needs to be broken in.
There is quite a bit on tension of the F tuning slide. When I pull it out the pressure forces it out of alignment. Not sure if this is deliberate, but I assume not. Main tuning slide is perfectly aligned.
The horn sounds really nice, but I think the factory did not take much care to make the horn performance ready from the assembly line. It really feels like the whole horn has to be broken in, in a way. Our band’s new Edwards’ valve and slide were glass-like out of the box, as was our Bach 42B when it was new 5 years ago.
Hopefully this shed some light. If it were my personal horn I might contact the factory and see if I could send it back for evaluation/tweaking. The price tag is high enough that if I bought a new horn I would expect pretty-near perfection. Since it’s an army horn we will make do and avoid someone in the bureaucratic chain making a mistake and taking the horn away from us for good.
Hope this helped!
8/10 for the 88HNV
Came in yesterday. How come nobody mentioned how nice the case is?? Compact quilted leather??? Also the bell engraving is super pretty.
<IMGUR id="a/fKODhi2">https://imgur.com/a/fKODhi2</IMGUR>
Some first impressions:
The slide was absolute dogshit out of the box. Would not move smoothly, sounded scratchy, kept sticking. Seems almost like the factory did not buff the inside of the outers. I wiped off the inners, applied some of the conn slide cream that the horn came with and spritzed with water and it’s manageable. Given the time to work some yamasnot or slideomix into the slide I’m sure it’ll be like lightning. Slide lock is very stiff but doesn’t feel like it has tight tolerances. Almost feels scratchy to move. A very very small amount of lanolin would probably fix it right up. There are also some lacquer imperfections on the slide lock.
I’m not up to date with leadpipes but this does not have the remington shank. Did they stop putting them in all modern 88h’s? Mouthpiece sits even higher that it does on my army Bach 42 and Edwards 396-AR. Doesn’t seem too high though.
Intonation is pretty nice. B flat on the 2nd line is a tad sharp; top of the staff and the one above it are also right in tune.
High D slots, centers, and projects VERY nicely. Even the F above that feels nice and full.
Middle register is all nice, easy, and centered. The bell is pretty thin, so it resonates something wonderful.
My low register sucks but this horn helped a little. The trigger is pretty good and air through the wrap felt barely any different than air not through the wrap. Does that mean it’s an open blow? Tight blow? Even blow? Idk
The valve when dry was barely noisy at all but still didn’t really quiet down with Bach rotor oil. Again, almost feels scratchy to use. Kinda like it needs to be broken in.
There is quite a bit on tension of the F tuning slide. When I pull it out the pressure forces it out of alignment. Not sure if this is deliberate, but I assume not. Main tuning slide is perfectly aligned.
The horn sounds really nice, but I think the factory did not take much care to make the horn performance ready from the assembly line. It really feels like the whole horn has to be broken in, in a way. Our band’s new Edwards’ valve and slide were glass-like out of the box, as was our Bach 42B when it was new 5 years ago.
Hopefully this shed some light. If it were my personal horn I might contact the factory and see if I could send it back for evaluation/tweaking. The price tag is high enough that if I bought a new horn I would expect pretty-near perfection. Since it’s an army horn we will make do and avoid someone in the bureaucratic chain making a mistake and taking the horn away from us for good.
Hope this helped!
8/10 for the 88HNV
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="TromboneSam"]I’m not up to date with leadpipes but this does not have the remington shank. Did they stop putting them in all modern 88h’s?[/quote]
Ever since the GenII redesign in the mid-90s, 88H trombones have had standard Morse shank tapers. They do (did?) sell a slide with 3 removable leadpipes, one of which was Remington.
It's a shame the assembly was a bit imprecise.
Ever since the GenII redesign in the mid-90s, 88H trombones have had standard Morse shank tapers. They do (did?) sell a slide with 3 removable leadpipes, one of which was Remington.
It's a shame the assembly was a bit imprecise.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Sorry to learn about the scratchy slide. Two weeks ago, I purchased a "new" Conn SL2547 slide from Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. (Thanks Aaron.) It was apparently found in a salesman's sample case in the back room; its age is uncertain - probably only a few years old. :idk: It had never been played – still wrapped in plastic. It came with 3 leadpipes.
The quality of the slide is amazing. Smoother than smooth - a true 10/10; no break-in (and very little slide lube) required. It works great with my vintage Conn 88H! I don't know when this slide was manufactured, but ... if everything that Conn-Selmer makes were this good, they would have no critics left!
The quality of the slide is amazing. Smoother than smooth - a true 10/10; no break-in (and very little slide lube) required. It works great with my vintage Conn 88H! I don't know when this slide was manufactured, but ... if everything that Conn-Selmer makes were this good, they would have no critics left!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Could it be an Eastlake slide? They made the best slides I have ever played,both on the 88H and the alto.
- ZacharyThornton
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="ZacharyThornton"]All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.[/quote]
Is Eastlake plant closed entirely? I thought they were still doing student tubas there.
Is Eastlake plant closed entirely? I thought they were still doing student tubas there.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
French horns are still being made in Eastlake.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="ZacharyThornton"]All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.[/quote]
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="ZacharyThornton" post_id="172867" time="1646273187" user_id="109">
All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.[/quote]
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"
</QUOTE>
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :(
All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.[/quote]
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"
</QUOTE>
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :(
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="172879" time="1646287036" user_id="3642">
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"[/quote]
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :(
</QUOTE>
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.
Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"[/quote]
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :(
</QUOTE>
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Thanks TromboneSam for the detailed review.
Sounds like a case of a fundamentally good design, unfortunately let down by some final touches.
Do you happen to have played a GenII 88H as a point of comparison?
For anyone interested, I don't know if it's a pricing error, but at Thomann, the 88HNV is the same price as the standard 88H:
[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.thomann.de/de/cgconn_88hnv_ ... ombone.htm">https://www.thomann.de/de/cgconn_88hnv_bb_f_trombone.htm</LINK_TEXT>
At other places they seem to be at least a few hundred more
Sounds like a case of a fundamentally good design, unfortunately let down by some final touches.
Do you happen to have played a GenII 88H as a point of comparison?
For anyone interested, I don't know if it's a pricing error, but at Thomann, the 88HNV is the same price as the standard 88H:
At other places they seem to be at least a few hundred more
- asmith
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Dec 04, 2021
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="172883" time="1646289467" user_id="158">
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :([/quote]
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.
</QUOTE>
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.
Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!
Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that. :([/quote]
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.
</QUOTE>
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.
- ZacharyThornton
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The new professional line trombones come from the same place: Elkhart. The student brass still comes from Eastlake I assume as well as the background brass (tubas, French Horns).
- Monkhouse
- Posts: 55
- Joined: May 12, 2020
[quote="asmith"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="172886" time="1646290721" user_id="3642">
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.[/quote]
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.
</QUOTE>
Do you still have a 2547 available?
Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.[/quote]
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.
</QUOTE>
Do you still have a 2547 available?
- asmith
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Dec 04, 2021
[quote="Monkhouse"]<QUOTE author="asmith" post_id="172901" time="1646322823" user_id="14003">
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.[/quote]
Do you still have a 2547 available?
</QUOTE>
Unfortunately not, those were clearance items. You can still order a new one, but they are about $1200 now.
Everything I still have available is listed here: <LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... 65#p172865">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25262&p=172865#p172865</LINK_TEXT>
You're welcome for the slide!
They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.
I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.[/quote]
Do you still have a 2547 available?
</QUOTE>
Unfortunately not, those were clearance items. You can still order a new one, but they are about $1200 now.
Everything I still have available is listed here: <LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... 65#p172865">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25262&p=172865#p172865</LINK_TEXT>