WTB: Olds 21
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I'm looking for an Olds 21 mouthpiece in serviceable condition.
PM or email hyperbolica at outlook daht calm.
PM or email hyperbolica at outlook daht calm.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Anyone have something like this getting dusty on a shelf?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Just curious - what size is an Olds 21? Must be pretty rare. Large (Olds) or small (Olds) shank? :idk:
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]Just curious - what size is an Olds 21? Must be pretty rare. Large (Olds) or small (Olds) shank? :idk:[/quote]
Large bore. 1.5G size, special shank
Large bore. 1.5G size, special shank
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think that was what the 21 was called previous to its name being changed. What condition is it in and how much do you want for it? (I'm hoping to actually play it, not just collect.)
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Ok, thanks! Item obtained!
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Remember that Olds used two different "bass" shanks. I've never been able to nail down exactly when they made the change, but the receiver on my 1962 O-23 and all of the earlier large-shank horns in my collection is smaller than the receiver on my 1969 S-20 and the later horns in my collection (O-25, S-24G, and P-24G).
I only have one "G", but it fits the smaller receiver and sits quite deep in the larger one. The 21's I've seen fit the larger receiver correctly and do not insert fully in the smaller shank.
All I have to measure with is a dial caliper, but I make the 21 just a bit larger than a Conn 1.5G (sorry, no Bach 1.5G's around) and the G maybe a bit larger still.
I only have one "G", but it fits the smaller receiver and sits quite deep in the larger one. The 21's I've seen fit the larger receiver correctly and do not insert fully in the smaller shank.
All I have to measure with is a dial caliper, but I make the 21 just a bit larger than a Conn 1.5G (sorry, no Bach 1.5G's around) and the G maybe a bit larger still.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Right now I'm using standard large shank 1.25 and 2 g. They sit about 3/8" less into the receiver, and play very flat. Anything will be an improvement. My S-20 is much later, I think 1979, so the G may be a bit small.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I received the Olds G mouthpiece, and it fits into the receiver the same way that the other standard mouthpieces fit (which is about 3/8" too shallow). The horn is an Olds S-20 (9" bell, 547/562 dual bore, TIS).
I have 5 mouthpieces that I might consider using on this horn, but so far none of them fit far enough into the receiver:
Olds G - feels most like a tenor
VB 2G - sounds powerful
DE 104 Euph J8 - feels very civilized, if that's a feeling, good sound, not a big ripping sound
VB 1 1/4G - very powerful, great down to the pedals
Schilke 60 - sounds good only below the staff, everything else is unfocused
Obviously, this is with me playing, and I usually play DE XT 104 xxxxx on tenor. My goal with the horn is to replace the valve with a double set from a Duo Gravis, and use it as a small bass, because I'm old, and don't have the wind or strength I used to have when I was 25, and because it can play low notes and yet still sound/feel like a trombone.
It's tempting to get Doug to make the proper shank for it, but with the funky taper, I might not get it right the first time. Since this thing is going under the torch anyway, I might just get a new upper cork barrel and leadpipe so I can use standard mouthpieces, in which I already have good options.
I've played this with a couple of groups, and I really do like the sound. It's just a nice trombone sound, not a woofy, unfocused, euphonium sound. Other people like the warm, dark, velvety sound of a big bass, but I just like the trombone sound. But there have been the single valve bass limitations, and the bother of being a guy with short arms trying to reach 7+th position for low C, in time and rhythm.
I have 5 mouthpieces that I might consider using on this horn, but so far none of them fit far enough into the receiver:
Olds G - feels most like a tenor
VB 2G - sounds powerful
DE 104 Euph J8 - feels very civilized, if that's a feeling, good sound, not a big ripping sound
VB 1 1/4G - very powerful, great down to the pedals
Schilke 60 - sounds good only below the staff, everything else is unfocused
Obviously, this is with me playing, and I usually play DE XT 104 xxxxx on tenor. My goal with the horn is to replace the valve with a double set from a Duo Gravis, and use it as a small bass, because I'm old, and don't have the wind or strength I used to have when I was 25, and because it can play low notes and yet still sound/feel like a trombone.
It's tempting to get Doug to make the proper shank for it, but with the funky taper, I might not get it right the first time. Since this thing is going under the torch anyway, I might just get a new upper cork barrel and leadpipe so I can use standard mouthpieces, in which I already have good options.
I've played this with a couple of groups, and I really do like the sound. It's just a nice trombone sound, not a woofy, unfocused, euphonium sound. Other people like the warm, dark, velvety sound of a big bass, but I just like the trombone sound. But there have been the single valve bass limitations, and the bother of being a guy with short arms trying to reach 7+th position for low C, in time and rhythm.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Looks like you have the older, smaller receiver. A 21 is not going to do it for that horn. AFAIK, they made 15's, 20's, and G's in that shank size. A 15 or a 20 wouldn't be big enough (mouthpiece-wise, not shank-wise), and G's are pretty rare.
At this point, I think Doug Elliott might be your best bet. If he does not have an exemplar for that shank size, have him contact me and I'll loan him one. Kanstul might be an option; I had them scan my "G" a few years back. Not sure if they be willing and/or able to produce more copies now. Going with Doug gives you a lot more flexibility as far as cups and rims.
Good to know that they made G's in the later, larger shank size.
At this point, I think Doug Elliott might be your best bet. If he does not have an exemplar for that shank size, have him contact me and I'll loan him one. Kanstul might be an option; I had them scan my "G" a few years back. Not sure if they be willing and/or able to produce more copies now. Going with Doug gives you a lot more flexibility as far as cups and rims.
Good to know that they made G's in the later, larger shank size.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I thought the horn was from 1979, but I could be wrong. Anyway, it's not a historical relic, it's not in fantastic condition, and these horns don't seem that widely sought after, so I'm going to have the leadpipe/receiver replaced so I can use normal mouthpieces properly. Looks like I might have an Olds G in fair condition available if someone wants one.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]I thought the horn was from 1979, but I could be wrong.[/quote]
The S-20 is listed in the 1970 catalog, but not the 1973 catalog (nor in any of the later ones I have). Of course, it's possible they were still producing some even though they weren't in the catalog.
What are the first three characters in the serial number?
The S-20 is listed in the 1970 catalog, but not the 1973 catalog (nor in any of the later ones I have). Of course, it's possible they were still producing some even though they weren't in the catalog.
What are the first three characters in the serial number?
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
JohnL,
the first 3 of the serial are 740xxx.
the first 3 of the serial are 740xxx.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]JohnL,
the first 3 of the serial are 740xxx.[/quote]
That dates it to 1971. A little later than I would have expected to have the smaller receiver.
the first 3 of the serial are 740xxx.[/quote]
That dates it to 1971. A little later than I would have expected to have the smaller receiver.
- doctortrombone
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Apr 21, 2018
I have an Olds 21, and it's a standard large shank taper. It goes into the receiver on my Opera exactly the same amount that a Bach large shank does. I pulled the leadpipe, and it looks like that was intentional. The leadpipe has an expanded section, and then a sudden reduction in diameter, right at the point where the mouthpiece bottoms out. I guess that could be from people using it with the larger shank.