Choosing a MP by Buzzing
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've noticed that when I buzz various pitches on different, but similar, MPs I have that certain ones focus and center the buzz noticeably better than others. One MP in particular stands out. Have anyone else noticed or tried this? Could this be a viable way in choosing a MP?
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Some mouthpieces can probably be excluded from further consideration by buzzing (eg if the rim is super uncomfortable) but you almost certainly want to know how that buzz translates into sound out of the bell before deciding on an MP
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
My guess is that it's totally irrelevant. What's important is how it behaves in combination with the horn.
I know others will disagree. And I could be wrong.
I know others will disagree. And I could be wrong.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
First of all, I would not choose a mouthpiece based on buzzing it without the instrument.
As an aside, in my experience mouthpieces with longer shanks tend to reinforce the buzzing pitch a little more. All other things being equal or close to it, I don't usually like the longer shank mouthpiece in the instrument itself, even if I find it a little more gratifying (or useful, which is more important to me) to buzz with it.
As an aside, in my experience mouthpieces with longer shanks tend to reinforce the buzzing pitch a little more. All other things being equal or close to it, I don't usually like the longer shank mouthpiece in the instrument itself, even if I find it a little more gratifying (or useful, which is more important to me) to buzz with it.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Actually, I'd suggest it's probably inversely correlated if anything. I find it very satisfying to use those assorted buzzing devices... burps, buzzarellas, or whatnot. The more resistance the better. But if you were to build a mouthpiece that was based around adding resistance in such a way, it would probably be an abysmally awful mouthpiece.
Certainly, it is not applicable universally to all brass mouthpieces too. For instance, on trumpet mouthpieces I generally find standard pieces with really tight throats and standard length shanks buzz really well. But I prefer to play on short shank with 18+ throats. I hate buzzing on my flugel piece which has like... maybe a 10 throat. But it's waaaaay better sounding when I put it in the horn.
I'm on vacation now so I can't try it because I didn't bring my tuba piece with me but I suspect I'd much prefer it with a really small trombone shank rather than the TUAm one I have in it now if the sole purpose was to make the buzzing more satisfying.
Certainly, it is not applicable universally to all brass mouthpieces too. For instance, on trumpet mouthpieces I generally find standard pieces with really tight throats and standard length shanks buzz really well. But I prefer to play on short shank with 18+ throats. I hate buzzing on my flugel piece which has like... maybe a 10 throat. But it's waaaaay better sounding when I put it in the horn.
I'm on vacation now so I can't try it because I didn't bring my tuba piece with me but I suspect I'd much prefer it with a really small trombone shank rather than the TUAm one I have in it now if the sole purpose was to make the buzzing more satisfying.
- cigmar
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
For clarification, I did not intend to imply that one should choose a mouthpiece entirely on how it buzzes. My thought was that it may be useful in thinning the herd when looking at multiple pieces, then moving on to play testing with the horn. Also, on the other end of the process, perhaps a tool for choosing between one piece or the other.
Ironically Gabe, the piece of mine that produces the most resonant buzz has a shank that appears equal to or shorter than the others.
Ironically Gabe, the piece of mine that produces the most resonant buzz has a shank that appears equal to or shorter than the others.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
My apologies if I sounded dogmatic in my assertion; that was not my intention. It isn't unreasonable to think that an object whose sole intention is to produce a buzz would be capable of being chosen by it's primary functionality. It's just that I find that the attributes that cause a mouthpiece to have a resonant buzz are things that cause a mouthipece to not play well, or at least for me. Or in other words, if you have say 3 pieces to choose between, I suspect I would prefer the one that had the "worst" buzz.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Ignoring buzzing, I think this premise is just backwards, or at least it's an attempt to separate something that is short of a circular process.
No, I don't think you can pick a mouthpiece without a trombone attached to it. We don't play the mouthpiece. Can you pick a trombone without a mouthpiece? No, you can't. You need both components to assess what you're doing.
Now, that said I think the mouthpiece is something that has more of an effect on how a setup plays and sounds than the horn itself. That's just me. So over time a player will gravitate towards what mouthpiece works best for them. They have to use their trombone to do that over time, and maybe we never settle on what the "best" mouthpiece is, but we might get close. We're not going to give up on this mouthpiece unless something drastically better comes along. Again, the normal way to assess all that is by playing the trombone.
Maybe we want to try a new trombone. We're going to use our best mouthpiece(s) when we test out new horns. We might reject a good horn because it doesn't cooperate with a mouthpiece we already know works. It wouldn't make sense to swap out to some uncomfortable mouthpiece just to satisfy the needs of a new trombone that didn't make the cut otherwise. So, building off that, you're probably only going to pick a new horn that plays nice with what you've already got, unless it's somehow obviously better. Not really likely.
You can't have one without the other.
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.
No, I don't think you can pick a mouthpiece without a trombone attached to it. We don't play the mouthpiece. Can you pick a trombone without a mouthpiece? No, you can't. You need both components to assess what you're doing.
Now, that said I think the mouthpiece is something that has more of an effect on how a setup plays and sounds than the horn itself. That's just me. So over time a player will gravitate towards what mouthpiece works best for them. They have to use their trombone to do that over time, and maybe we never settle on what the "best" mouthpiece is, but we might get close. We're not going to give up on this mouthpiece unless something drastically better comes along. Again, the normal way to assess all that is by playing the trombone.
Maybe we want to try a new trombone. We're going to use our best mouthpiece(s) when we test out new horns. We might reject a good horn because it doesn't cooperate with a mouthpiece we already know works. It wouldn't make sense to swap out to some uncomfortable mouthpiece just to satisfy the needs of a new trombone that didn't make the cut otherwise. So, building off that, you're probably only going to pick a new horn that plays nice with what you've already got, unless it's somehow obviously better. Not really likely.
You can't have one without the other.
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Ignoring buzzing, I think this premise is just backwards, or at least it's an attempt to separate something that is short of a circular process.
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.[/quote]
That's going to be expensive though.
You take your best horn. You try mouthpieces and find the best one.
Now you have a good mouthpiece. So you try a bunch of horns, and find one better.
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.[/quote]
That's going to be expensive though.
You take your best horn. You try mouthpieces and find the best one.
Now you have a good mouthpiece. So you try a bunch of horns, and find one better.
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="timothy42b"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="148697" time="1621292560" user_id="3642">
Ignoring buzzing, I think this premise is just backwards, or at least it's an attempt to separate something that is short of a circular process.
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.[/quote]
That's going to be expensive though.
You take your best horn. You try mouthpieces and find the best one.
Now you have a good mouthpiece. So you try a bunch of horns, and find one better.
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............
</QUOTE>
Umm...yeah. I don't know what to tell you haha. I almost never get a new horn. It's gotta blow me away. Mouthpieces aren't so expensive.
Buy I feel like your comment is a bit unfair. Lots of professional players can probably relate to the process I described. It either matters to you or it doesn't.
Ignoring buzzing, I think this premise is just backwards, or at least it's an attempt to separate something that is short of a circular process.
As for using buzzing to whittle down the herd, no. Just try them in your best horn, and see how they go.[/quote]
That's going to be expensive though.
You take your best horn. You try mouthpieces and find the best one.
Now you have a good mouthpiece. So you try a bunch of horns, and find one better.
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............
</QUOTE>
Umm...yeah. I don't know what to tell you haha. I almost never get a new horn. It's gotta blow me away. Mouthpieces aren't so expensive.
Buy I feel like your comment is a bit unfair. Lots of professional players can probably relate to the process I described. It either matters to you or it doesn't.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="timothy42b"]
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............[/quote]
If you want things to be good, this is what you do. There's eventually a compromise, of course, but no reason to settle on the first setup you find.
Uh oh, now the mouthpiece search starts again. Try a bunch of mouthpieces, and...............[/quote]
If you want things to be good, this is what you do. There's eventually a compromise, of course, but no reason to settle on the first setup you find.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Presumably you start somewhere in that search too. Tons of people started on a 354. The Yamaha 48 works well with it. After you play on it for awhile it might not be optimal (or it could be for your whole career, who knows). So you try something else. After awhile, you play on that and then you play a pro level horn... King 3B or something. Works great for awhile but you discover the mouthpiece isn't optimal on that, so you tweak a little more. That's... kind of what I did. Took like 10 years. Radically changing the whole setup, including mouthpiece at the same time... probably not advisable. Although I've known people who had never touched a large (or medium) bore prior to being a freshman in college and just went from playing a 354 w/ 12C to something like a Bach 42 with a 5G. A little sudden but it seemed to be okay for them.
- Doubler
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Jan 07, 2019
Try this experiment.
Part 1 - Make sure your mouthpiece is not in so tight that you can't easily pull it out of the horn. Play a note, any note. Without changing a thing about how you're forming the note, carefully separate the horn from the mouthpiece. Is there a buzz, or just a small-to-medium movement of air? Connect the trombone to the mouthpiece again without changing anything else. Are you back to playing the note you started?
Part 2 - Create a buzz on your mouthpiece. Plug the mouthpiece into your trombone. Are you still playing the same pitch as you were when you were buzzing? Try this with different pitches. Does the buzz before putting mouthpiece into horn have the same pitch as the resulting note afterward?
Part 3 - Get a nice, fat, resonant buzz on your mouthpiece. Connect mouthpiece to horn. Can you improve on the sound after you put them together?
What is the relationship between getting a fat, resonant buzz on a mouthpiece and getting a fat, resonant sound on your trombone? Could there be other factors at play in reaching the goal of a good sound and trying to predict how a mouthpiece will interact with an instrument without actually combining it with the instrument?
Part 1 - Make sure your mouthpiece is not in so tight that you can't easily pull it out of the horn. Play a note, any note. Without changing a thing about how you're forming the note, carefully separate the horn from the mouthpiece. Is there a buzz, or just a small-to-medium movement of air? Connect the trombone to the mouthpiece again without changing anything else. Are you back to playing the note you started?
Part 2 - Create a buzz on your mouthpiece. Plug the mouthpiece into your trombone. Are you still playing the same pitch as you were when you were buzzing? Try this with different pitches. Does the buzz before putting mouthpiece into horn have the same pitch as the resulting note afterward?
Part 3 - Get a nice, fat, resonant buzz on your mouthpiece. Connect mouthpiece to horn. Can you improve on the sound after you put them together?
What is the relationship between getting a fat, resonant buzz on a mouthpiece and getting a fat, resonant sound on your trombone? Could there be other factors at play in reaching the goal of a good sound and trying to predict how a mouthpiece will interact with an instrument without actually combining it with the instrument?
- bigbandbone
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Jan 17, 2019
[quote="Doug Elliott"]My guess is that it's totally irrelevant. What's important is how it behaves in combination with the horn.
I know others will disagree. And I could be wrong.[/quote]
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I know others will disagree. And I could be wrong.[/quote]
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