Conn 6H vs. 48H
- johntarr
- Posts: 368
- Joined: May 07, 2018
I’m curious as to what the difference is in playing and sound between the Conn 6H and 48H models. I know the 48H has a nickel bell, and perhaps a bronze slide.
Any comments would be interesting and thanks in advance,
John
Any comments would be interesting and thanks in advance,
John
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
For me the 48H brightens up when i push it. I like using it for lead.
My 6H can brighten and darken up depending what i need it to.
Design wise the 48H slide i had was a little too narrow for me, so i sold it and use my 6H slide with the 48H bell. Works great.
My 6H can brighten and darken up depending what i need it to.
Design wise the 48H slide i had was a little too narrow for me, so i sold it and use my 6H slide with the 48H bell. Works great.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I like both horns, but the 48h is just a better all-around horn for me. Plus, you can really dig out from under a lot of noise with that bell. And I think the slide grip with gussets is more comfortable. I don't mind the width, but when slides get down to the width of a 32h, that's where I draw the line. I had a 10h slide with a wide glide crook on it, and stupidly traded it to some lucky Frenchman.
- Rusty
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Jun 01, 2018
Haven’t played a 6h but I had a nice 48h for a while. The bell is weighty…not quite King Silversonic, but it has a density and power to it that really projects well. I found the sound a little harder to blend with a horn section, but if it was my full time horn I could’ve made it work well for a man all round commercial/lead/jazz horn.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
I have a nice 6h and had a decent 48h with director slide for a while.
The 48h played great at home, in an ensemble I didn’t get enough feedback behind the horn for my personal taste and tended to overdo it a little. I noticed a similar thing with a 3bss which I effectively sold the 48h to fund. I found the 6h to give me more feedback behind the bell and am reliably informed by the saxes and band leader that enough sound still comes out of the front also.
In the end, I prefer the 6h and am happy to trade a little bit of top-end volume for more feedback and easier ability to colour the sound. If I played in a rock band or a really loud big band, I’d still have the 48h or 3bss. I’ve made some changes to my playing since I sold that 48h though and would love to give a 48h another go sometime.
The 48h played great at home, in an ensemble I didn’t get enough feedback behind the horn for my personal taste and tended to overdo it a little. I noticed a similar thing with a 3bss which I effectively sold the 48h to fund. I found the 6h to give me more feedback behind the bell and am reliably informed by the saxes and band leader that enough sound still comes out of the front also.
In the end, I prefer the 6h and am happy to trade a little bit of top-end volume for more feedback and easier ability to colour the sound. If I played in a rock band or a really loud big band, I’d still have the 48h or 3bss. I’ve made some changes to my playing since I sold that 48h though and would love to give a 48h another go sometime.
- btone
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I love both these horns and they do sound different, as described above. I have had some old 48hs, eventually selling one bell on Trombone Forum, and one complete horn to a student. I kept one, too. The much-used LW slides were just okay, so I often used the ultra smooth slide from my 70's 6h. The 6H plays great, a very all purpose sound, not as much heft or apparent projection from the bell as the 48H's but a really nice sound and so user-friendly. I played a state Miss America pageant with a fine player from Dallas back in the late 80's who used his early 60's 6H for most of his work and just sounded great on it. Btw, I had a friend put a Conn tenon on a spare King 3b slide once, and it worked fine on the 48H, giving it a bit more open blow.
- djkennedy
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Apr 15, 2018
Are the 48H flares
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="djkennedy"]Are the 48H flares
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????[/quote]
Not really sure, but I think 48H Connstellation bell flares are spun yellow brass, possibly copper-plated, then nickel-plated ("nickel-silver") to create a sturdy, dense, hard-to-tarnish silver-looking bell. I'm pretty sure that these 48H bells are heavier than 6H bells, as well as "denser" sounding.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn48H1968image.html
There may have been some 48Hs made with the Coprion copper technology, but I am skeptical.
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????[/quote]
Not really sure, but I think 48H Connstellation bell flares are spun yellow brass, possibly copper-plated, then nickel-plated ("nickel-silver") to create a sturdy, dense, hard-to-tarnish silver-looking bell. I'm pretty sure that these 48H bells are heavier than 6H bells, as well as "denser" sounding.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn48H1968image.html
There may have been some 48Hs made with the Coprion copper technology, but I am skeptical.
- DaveAshley
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Aug 01, 2018
My experience with 48H (have owned three) is that they have a darker sound than the 6H much of the time, but really light up when you put some "stank" on it. Maybe even a bit much at times. They also don't have as flexible a feel as a 6H - Partials seemed a little more rigid.
Still like them a lot! Wish I still had one, actually.
Still like them a lot! Wish I still had one, actually.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="djkennedy" post_id="150880" time="1623688859" user_id="3073">
Are the 48H flares
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????[/quote]
Not really sure, but I think 48H Connstellation bell flares are spun yellow brass, possibly copper-plated, then nickel-plated ("nickel-silver") to create a sturdy, dense, hard-to-tarnish silver-looking bell. I'm pretty sure that these 48H bells are heavier than 6H bells, as well as "denser" sounding.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn48H1968image.html
There may have been some 48Hs made with the Coprion copper technology, but I am skeptical.
</QUOTE>
There was a thread about this awhile back, and the suggestion was made that the rumor of them using coprion bells was due to the fact that there's a base layer of copper plating under the nickel plating. So perhaps someone saw the copper color where the nickel had worn off and made a wrong assumption. I can confirm that mine is definitely a brass bell with nickel plating over copper plating. You can see this by looking inside the bell throat. I seriously doubt that any bells were made of all nickel silver or all copper. Conn called it "Electro-D" plating. They advertised it as a special type of plating, but I don't think the entire bells were electro-formed, just the plating. I'm pretty sure 48Hs are lacquered, so I believe that is the reason they don't tarnish.
I prefer the 48H to the 6H. I tried a 6H and didn't feel like I could make it "get out" when I needed to. The 48H can be very bright if you need it to be, but can also be warm. I think it does slot tighter than the 6H. I never actually weighed it, but just touching the bell gives me the impression it is rather thick and heavy. Mine has a lightweight slide with bronze outer tubes.
Are the 48H flares
Copprion.
Yellow brass
Nickle Silver
?????????????????????????[/quote]
Not really sure, but I think 48H Connstellation bell flares are spun yellow brass, possibly copper-plated, then nickel-plated ("nickel-silver") to create a sturdy, dense, hard-to-tarnish silver-looking bell. I'm pretty sure that these 48H bells are heavier than 6H bells, as well as "denser" sounding.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn48H1968image.html
There may have been some 48Hs made with the Coprion copper technology, but I am skeptical.
</QUOTE>
There was a thread about this awhile back, and the suggestion was made that the rumor of them using coprion bells was due to the fact that there's a base layer of copper plating under the nickel plating. So perhaps someone saw the copper color where the nickel had worn off and made a wrong assumption. I can confirm that mine is definitely a brass bell with nickel plating over copper plating. You can see this by looking inside the bell throat. I seriously doubt that any bells were made of all nickel silver or all copper. Conn called it "Electro-D" plating. They advertised it as a special type of plating, but I don't think the entire bells were electro-formed, just the plating. I'm pretty sure 48Hs are lacquered, so I believe that is the reason they don't tarnish.
I prefer the 48H to the 6H. I tried a 6H and didn't feel like I could make it "get out" when I needed to. The 48H can be very bright if you need it to be, but can also be warm. I think it does slot tighter than the 6H. I never actually weighed it, but just touching the bell gives me the impression it is rather thick and heavy. Mine has a lightweight slide with bronze outer tubes.
- Swingray
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Dec 30, 2018
Just coming back to this. My 48h (1970) is much lighter than most I’ve tried.I usually like heavy (1945 2B and a Recording. But this is a great horn….
- Swingray
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Dec 30, 2018
Just coming back to this. My 48h (1970) is much lighter than most I’ve tried and lighter than most bores. I even wondered if this was some kind I’d special order. I usually like heavy (1945 2B and a Recording. But this is a great horn….
- Fairweather
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Jul 12, 2022
Just about to buy a 1966 48H in great condition as a successor to my well used 2b+. I like both horns, the king likes the mic and the conn likes to kick ass.
- pietaune
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Apr 13, 2023
Hello, first time poster here. My question might have been discussed before, but I couldn't find it with a search, so I ask here.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="pietaune"]Hello, first time poster here. My question might have been discussed before, but I couldn't find it with a search, so I ask here.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn[/quote]
I would think a Yamaha 897 or 697 would be as close as you will find in a stock instrument. There are also instruments in this size from Wessex Tubas. Other Chinese makes may be of variable quality.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn[/quote]
I would think a Yamaha 897 or 697 would be as close as you will find in a stock instrument. There are also instruments in this size from Wessex Tubas. Other Chinese makes may be of variable quality.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="pietaune"]
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
Martijn[/quote]
To me, these models are both still relevant and you can find playable examples of both. You could step into any jazz situation with a 6h and be taken seriously.
I played my 48h on lead with a trombone choir doing baroque tunes. It behaves if you don't push it too hard.
To replace a 6h I might look to the Greenhoe GC2. Its an improvement, but i think it has enough 6h in there to share a certain feel.
Replacing the 48h, I'd probably look to a Rath R2 with a nickel silver bell.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
Martijn[/quote]
To me, these models are both still relevant and you can find playable examples of both. You could step into any jazz situation with a 6h and be taken seriously.
I played my 48h on lead with a trombone choir doing baroque tunes. It behaves if you don't push it too hard.
To replace a 6h I might look to the Greenhoe GC2. Its an improvement, but i think it has enough 6h in there to share a certain feel.
Replacing the 48h, I'd probably look to a Rath R2 with a nickel silver bell.
- glenp
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Oct 31, 2020
[quote="BGuttman"]I would think a Yamaha 897 or 697 would be as close as you will find in a stock instrument.[/quote]
I didn’t get that vibe at all from the 897 I played. It’s been a while so I don’t recall exactly how I’d describe it, but my 6H feels drastically different. Definitely more open.
But that’s just my perception.
I didn’t get that vibe at all from the 897 I played. It’s been a while so I don’t recall exactly how I’d describe it, but my 6H feels drastically different. Definitely more open.
But that’s just my perception.
- pietaune
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Apr 13, 2023
[quote="hyperbolica"]<QUOTE author="pietaune" post_id="211241" time="1685531542" user_id="16520">
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
Martijn[/quote]
To me, these models are both still relevant and you can find playable examples of both. You could step into any jazz situation with a 6h and be taken seriously.
I played my 48h on lead with a trombone choir doing baroque tunes. It behaves if you don't push it too hard.
To replace a 6h I might look to the Greenhoe GC2. Its an improvement, but i think it has enough 6h in there to share a certain feel.
Replacing the 48h, I'd probably look to a Rath R2 with a nickel silver bell.
</QUOTE>
I know both models are still available in even very good shapes. But in Europe they are more difficult to find.
Thanks for the suggestions. Certainly the Yamaha and Rath are very interesting
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
Martijn[/quote]
To me, these models are both still relevant and you can find playable examples of both. You could step into any jazz situation with a 6h and be taken seriously.
I played my 48h on lead with a trombone choir doing baroque tunes. It behaves if you don't push it too hard.
To replace a 6h I might look to the Greenhoe GC2. Its an improvement, but i think it has enough 6h in there to share a certain feel.
Replacing the 48h, I'd probably look to a Rath R2 with a nickel silver bell.
</QUOTE>
I know both models are still available in even very good shapes. But in Europe they are more difficult to find.
Thanks for the suggestions. Certainly the Yamaha and Rath are very interesting
- Rusty
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Jun 01, 2018
I feel the Yamahas are more based on the classic Kings, I’d look at the new Greenhoe GC2 models, there’s a yellow brass version based on a 6H, and a nickel bell, gold brass slide version based on a 48H.
- DaveAshley
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Aug 01, 2018
[quote="pietaune"]Hello, first time poster here. My question might have been discussed before, but I couldn't find it with a search, so I ask here.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn[/quote]
I would say the most modern, refined equivalent would be the Greenhoe GC2 - The yellow brass version would be the 6H and the nickel version would be the 48H.
Edit: Oops! Just saw the previous comment…. :idk:
P.S. I have a GC2-Y for sale. Amazing instrument, but the Lawler 1 has a more personal sound for me.
What would be a modern equivalent to both the 6H and 48H? Of course with customisation anything is possible, but if you would have to take it from stock?
I play a 48H from the seventies in a horn section and I am happy with it, but would be interested in a more modern horn.
Martijn[/quote]
I would say the most modern, refined equivalent would be the Greenhoe GC2 - The yellow brass version would be the 6H and the nickel version would be the 48H.
Edit: Oops! Just saw the previous comment…. :idk:
P.S. I have a GC2-Y for sale. Amazing instrument, but the Lawler 1 has a more personal sound for me.
- Northernigel
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Feb 28, 2024
I'm have both a 6H Victor and a 48H. Both fab to play but a very different, the 6H can cut across any big band if required. The 48H has a lighter sound, well suited to tutti ensemble playing.
I sometimes mix n' match the 48H slide with the Victor Bell, a great lead instrument
I sometimes mix n' match the 48H slide with the Victor Bell, a great lead instrument
- MultiTbone
- Posts: 3
- Joined: May 01, 2024
I grew up playing a 48H, shifted to a 6H for 20 years and own both. They complement each other, but are not the same. The 48H plays like a bigger horn and takes more wind. Conn’s “Coprion” bell horns had amazing projection when played forte, but were muddy pianissimo, so enter the 48H Constellation, a (mostly) copper bell coated with nickel. Like instruments of silver, the nickel provides a soft finish to the sound. I use the 48H for orchestra, and can whisper, as needed. But the design is schizophrenic because when pushed the horn projects amazingly with clear brilliant tone. The 6H is simpler to play, faster, and the ultimate crossover horn. You can cut a bop tune cleanly, play a sweet ballad, back up an R&B band, or play just about anything. I go back and forth between the two. After blowing the 48H, the 6H seems nimble and easy, and after blowing the 6H, the 48H add a dynamic range that entrances. Love those old Conn's.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="MultiTbone"]I grew up playing a 48H, shifted to a 6H for 20 years and own both. They complement each other, but are not the same. The 48H plays like a bigger horn and takes more wind. Conn’s “Coprion” bell horns had amazing projection when played forte, but were muddy pianissimo, so enter the 48H Constellation, a (mostly) copper bell coated with nickel. Like instruments of silver, the nickel provides a soft finish to the sound. I use the 48H for orchestra, and can whisper, as needed. But the design is schizophrenic because when pushed the horn projects amazingly with clear brilliant tone. The 6H is simpler to play, faster, and the ultimate crossover horn. You can cut a bop tune cleanly, play a sweet ballad, back up an R&B band, or play just about anything. I go back and forth between the two. After blowing the 48H, the 6H seems nimble and easy, and after blowing the 6H, the 48H add a dynamic range that entrances. Love those old Conn's.[/quote]
:good:
I think you've nailed it.
Love those old Conns! 8-)
:good:
I think you've nailed it.
Love those old Conns! 8-)
- Aneeq
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Apr 18, 2024
Hi guys,
Hope you are well. Just curious to know which famous jazz players used the Conn 48H?
Hope you are well. Just curious to know which famous jazz players used the Conn 48H?
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
Kuhnl & Hoyer makes 0.500” bore nickel plated or brass Bart van Lier trombones. If i were in Europe, or not, I would be looking at those horns and who plays them. The K & H Bart van Lier 0.480-0.488” with a 7 inch bell is less like a 2B than Yamaha’s YSL 697Z, which is almost a 2B clone. They may be unique. But they’re good horns
- DaveAshley
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Aug 01, 2018
The 48H slide on a 6H bell is really cool!! Anyone with both horns would be crazy not to give it a shot.
Pop the 48H slide into a 24H bell and <I>LOOK OUT!</I> :amazed:
Pop the 48H slide into a 24H bell and <I>LOOK OUT!</I> :amazed:
- Zaid190
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Jul 17, 2024
I currently use an Olds Super and was wondering if maybe combining a 6H bell with a 48h slide would give me something closer to the olds but just different enough. Sounds like it might?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Zaid190"]I currently use an Olds Super and was wondering if maybe combining a 6H bell with a 48h slide would give me something closer to the olds but just different enough. Sounds like it might?[/quote]
What difference are you trying to achieve? Why?
This combo might be somewhat close ... but ... everything is different!
What difference are you trying to achieve? Why?
This combo might be somewhat close ... but ... everything is different!
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Zaid190"]I currently use an Olds Super and was wondering if maybe combining a 6H bell with a 48h slide would give me something closer to the olds but just different enough. Sounds like it might?[/quote]
The Olds Super is a heavy horn with a small bore. I don't think any Conn combination will sound like that. Both the 6h and 48h are better horns than the Super, in my view. You might compare the 48h and a Recording. They are both heavyish and dark sounding, but the small top slide bore makes the Recording articulate more quickly, and the nickel bell makes the 48h just more...... 48h ish.
The Olds Super is a heavy horn with a small bore. I don't think any Conn combination will sound like that. Both the 6h and 48h are better horns than the Super, in my view. You might compare the 48h and a Recording. They are both heavyish and dark sounding, but the small top slide bore makes the Recording articulate more quickly, and the nickel bell makes the 48h just more...... 48h ish.
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
People that like the 6H and 48H swear by them. The Super people swear by them. People may mix and match 5H, 6H, and 48H slides and bells. I never heard them compare the result with the Super. 0.485-0.500 bore horns don’t blow or sound like 0.500 bore horns. Inter-mixing is prohibited in Leviticus 19:19 but the result can be used if it were to occur naturally. Don’t store horns in dark closets.
I have 2Bs, a Super, and a 6H. I have played a Recording. The 6H is cliser to a Recording. The Super is closer to a 2B. The Super could have a little more versatility for jazz band 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, small group jazz, brass quintets and quartets, and maybe in brass bands, similar to a 6H. But they arr not the same, even with slide swaps.
I have 2Bs, a Super, and a 6H. I have played a Recording. The 6H is cliser to a Recording. The Super is closer to a 2B. The Super could have a little more versatility for jazz band 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, small group jazz, brass quintets and quartets, and maybe in brass bands, similar to a 6H. But they arr not the same, even with slide swaps.
- SteveM
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Dec 21, 2021
Although Conn designed and marketed the 48H as their top of the line .500 bore trombone, giving it their elite "Connstellation" branding, it never came close to catching up with the 6H (let alone the King 3B, by that time) as the choice of jazz and studio players.
- wayne88ny
- Posts: 82
- Joined: May 24, 2018
youtube video comparing the 6H and 48H
<YOUTUBE id="FYIgO9xc3dE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYIgO9xc3dE</YOUTUBE>
<YOUTUBE id="FYIgO9xc3dE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYIgO9xc3dE</YOUTUBE>