Schilke shanks?
- NordicTrombone
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
Here's a question to all you Schilke fans:
On all three Schilke mouthpieces I've tried the last year(51D and two 52E2) there's an issue with them not fitting perfectly in the reciever. I've tried them in two euphoniums and a couple of trombones and the problem was the same. Is this a common problem and can it be fixed?
I think they're newer versions and not long shank ones, they are all the same length as other mouthpieces in my collection. And I don't have this issue with any other large shank mouthpieces so I think my horns are OK.
I'm looking forward to hear your experiences and tips :biggrin:
On all three Schilke mouthpieces I've tried the last year(51D and two 52E2) there's an issue with them not fitting perfectly in the reciever. I've tried them in two euphoniums and a couple of trombones and the problem was the same. Is this a common problem and can it be fixed?
I think they're newer versions and not long shank ones, they are all the same length as other mouthpieces in my collection. And I don't have this issue with any other large shank mouthpieces so I think my horns are OK.
I'm looking forward to hear your experiences and tips :biggrin:
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
In what way do they not fit?
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
Are they bottoming out? As in, are they hitting the knurling at the large end of the shank?
I have both modern and old, long shank 58s and found that the space between knurling and receiver on the modern 58 was very close on my Besson, about ⅛" of space. The old one sticks out about as far between knurling and receiver as my Bach mouthpieces do on my Holton tenor (about ½").
Disclosure: for some reason, neither Schilke fits right in the Holton... They wobble, suggesting the shank end is hitting the end of the receiver.
I have both modern and old, long shank 58s and found that the space between knurling and receiver on the modern 58 was very close on my Besson, about ⅛" of space. The old one sticks out about as far between knurling and receiver as my Bach mouthpieces do on my Holton tenor (about ½").
Disclosure: for some reason, neither Schilke fits right in the Holton... They wobble, suggesting the shank end is hitting the end of the receiver.
- NordicTrombone
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]In what way do they not fit?[/quote]
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.
- NordicTrombone
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
[quote="Kevbach33"]Are they bottoming out? As in, are they hitting the knurling at the large end of the shank?
I have both modern and old, long shank 58s and found that the space between knurling and receiver on the modern 58 was very close on my Besson, about ⅛" of space. The old one sticks out about as far between knurling and receiver as my Bach mouthpieces do on my Holton tenor (about ½").
Disclosure: for some reason, neither Schilke fits right in the Holton... They wobble, suggesting the shank end is hitting the end of the receiver.[/quote]
They all wobble a bit. On my euphonium it sounds as if they hit the start of leadpipe and on my large tenor they just don't fit snugly. The wobble is consistent in all my large shank leadpipes :idk:
I have both modern and old, long shank 58s and found that the space between knurling and receiver on the modern 58 was very close on my Besson, about ⅛" of space. The old one sticks out about as far between knurling and receiver as my Bach mouthpieces do on my Holton tenor (about ½").
Disclosure: for some reason, neither Schilke fits right in the Holton... They wobble, suggesting the shank end is hitting the end of the receiver.[/quote]
They all wobble a bit. On my euphonium it sounds as if they hit the start of leadpipe and on my large tenor they just don't fit snugly. The wobble is consistent in all my large shank leadpipes :idk:
- Vegastokc
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Jun 15, 2018
[quote="NordicTrombone"]
They all wobble a bit....[/quote]
My daily for the past couple years is a small shank 51. Wobbles in every horn except maybe the pBone. :D
FWIW: I use a little Teflon tape - about a 2 inch length wrapped on the very end.
It works well to create a seal. Plus it's cheap and readily available.
Usually have to replace it about every 2-3 days. :good:
They all wobble a bit....[/quote]
My daily for the past couple years is a small shank 51. Wobbles in every horn except maybe the pBone. :D
FWIW: I use a little Teflon tape - about a 2 inch length wrapped on the very end.
It works well to create a seal. Plus it's cheap and readily available.
Usually have to replace it about every 2-3 days. :good:
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="NordicTrombone"]<QUOTE author="hornbuilder" post_id="154299" time="1628104388" user_id="3205">
In what way do they not fit?[/quote]
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.
</QUOTE>
Just to be sure: You have one of the newer Schilkes with the standard Morse taper? And you have an instrument with the standard Morse taper in the leadpipe? (I know, “Morse taper” is not really accurate, but it’s understood in this context.)
The older Schilke mpcs had a long shank that was intended to fit in both types of receivers: the standard “Morse” taper and the “Brown and Sharpe/Remington” taper.
If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>newer </I>Schilke mpcs, perhaps the receiver is mis-shapen? OTOH, If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>older</I> Schilke mpcs, then plumber’s type (as mentioned above) can help. Same with a “Remington” receiver and a Schilke long shank.
In what way do they not fit?[/quote]
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.
</QUOTE>
Just to be sure: You have one of the newer Schilkes with the standard Morse taper? And you have an instrument with the standard Morse taper in the leadpipe? (I know, “Morse taper” is not really accurate, but it’s understood in this context.)
The older Schilke mpcs had a long shank that was intended to fit in both types of receivers: the standard “Morse” taper and the “Brown and Sharpe/Remington” taper.
If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>newer </I>Schilke mpcs, perhaps the receiver is mis-shapen? OTOH, If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>older</I> Schilke mpcs, then plumber’s type (as mentioned above) can help. Same with a “Remington” receiver and a Schilke long shank.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Complete diversion…
“Longshanks” was the name given to Edward I, one of the first English kings to invade Scotland. He was known as Edward Longshanks and the Hammer of the Scots (Latin: Malleus Scotorum), and was King of England from 1272 to 1307. He’s mentioned in the movie Braveheart (which was historically inaccurate in many ways). He was, from historical accounts, very tall—and a right b@stard.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming…
“Longshanks” was the name given to Edward I, one of the first English kings to invade Scotland. He was known as Edward Longshanks and the Hammer of the Scots (Latin: Malleus Scotorum), and was King of England from 1272 to 1307. He’s mentioned in the movie Braveheart (which was historically inaccurate in many ways). He was, from historical accounts, very tall—and a right b@stard.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming…
- NordicTrombone
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]<QUOTE author="NordicTrombone" post_id="154304" time="1628109193" user_id="3005">
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.[/quote]
Just to be sure: You have one of the newer Schilkes with the standard Morse taper? And you have an instrument with the standard Morse taper in the leadpipe? (I know, “Morse taper” is not really accurate, but it’s understood in this context.)
The older Schilke mpcs had a long shank that was intended to fit in both types of receivers: the standard “Morse” taper and the “Brown and Sharpe/Remington” taper.
If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>newer </I>Schilke mpcs, perhaps the receiver is mis-shapen? OTOH, If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>older</I> Schilke mpcs, then plumber’s type (as mentioned above) can help. Same with a “Remington” receiver and a Schilke long shank.
</QUOTE>
I believe I have newer ones, yes. They are all the same length as other large shank mouthpieces I have.
All other brands fits perfectly in my horns, it´s only the Schilkes that wobble. This leads me to think that the issue is not in my instruments :) I will certainly give tape on the shank a try!
My op was a bit inaccurate, they wobble.[/quote]
Just to be sure: You have one of the newer Schilkes with the standard Morse taper? And you have an instrument with the standard Morse taper in the leadpipe? (I know, “Morse taper” is not really accurate, but it’s understood in this context.)
The older Schilke mpcs had a long shank that was intended to fit in both types of receivers: the standard “Morse” taper and the “Brown and Sharpe/Remington” taper.
If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>newer </I>Schilke mpcs, perhaps the receiver is mis-shapen? OTOH, If you have an instrument with a “Morse” taper leadpipe and one of the <I>older</I> Schilke mpcs, then plumber’s type (as mentioned above) can help. Same with a “Remington” receiver and a Schilke long shank.
</QUOTE>
I believe I have newer ones, yes. They are all the same length as other large shank mouthpieces I have.
All other brands fits perfectly in my horns, it´s only the Schilkes that wobble. This leads me to think that the issue is not in my instruments :) I will certainly give tape on the shank a try!
- pjanda1
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Aug 29, 2021
By "same length," how long are they? My new shank 51 fits perfectly snug in my Edwards. My old long shank 51C4 and 51 wobble a bit in both a Remington leadpipe (Elkhart 8H) and the Edwards, though less so in the Edwards. My shorter/newer Schilke is the same length as Griego/Bach etc, so you are probably right that it isn't a long shank.
See if somebody has a proper truing tool (one you put the mouthpiece in; not something you put in the mouthpiece). They could be just a tiny bit out of round.
It also might be worth asking Schilke. I ordered a "Remington" shank Schilke 51 new from a reputable source. It was very much not a Remington shank or large shank. Smaller than either, but bigger than a small shank. The dealer explained that of the batch he ordered, there was one that was just right and the rest were like the one I returned. So I don't entirely trust the consistency of present-day Schilke.
Paul
See if somebody has a proper truing tool (one you put the mouthpiece in; not something you put in the mouthpiece). They could be just a tiny bit out of round.
It also might be worth asking Schilke. I ordered a "Remington" shank Schilke 51 new from a reputable source. It was very much not a Remington shank or large shank. Smaller than either, but bigger than a small shank. The dealer explained that of the batch he ordered, there was one that was just right and the rest were like the one I returned. So I don't entirely trust the consistency of present-day Schilke.
Paul
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
FWIW, here's a shot of Schilke shanks...
<ATTACHMENT filename="schilkes.jpg" index="1">[attachment=1]schilkes.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="schilketips.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]schilketips.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="schilkes.jpg" index="1">
<ATTACHMENT filename="schilketips.jpg" index="0">
- CarlVicVogel
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Jan 11, 2022
Looks like my older Schilke 50. I wound up buying the shorter version to work with my Bach 42.
CarlVicVogel
CarlVicVogel
- bigbandbone
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Jan 17, 2019
When I was still repairing horn before I retired I encountered this "wobble" problem on several brands of new mouthpieces. The worst being Jetone.
I determined that the problem was caused during the plating process. The end of the mouthpiece closest to the anode builds a thicker layer of silver plating.
To fix it I would mount the mouthpiece in the lathe with a live center and use 500 grit sandpaper to take down the diameter at the end of the shank. Just a little at a time till the wobble would disappear.
I determined that the problem was caused during the plating process. The end of the mouthpiece closest to the anode builds a thicker layer of silver plating.
To fix it I would mount the mouthpiece in the lathe with a live center and use 500 grit sandpaper to take down the diameter at the end of the shank. Just a little at a time till the wobble would disappear.
- drbucher
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Feb 16, 2022
My 1990s Schilke 51D wobbled in my Holton 156.The newer 51 drops in far but fits tight along the entire shank.
- pjanda1
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Aug 29, 2021
That 1979 60 is indeed a "long shank" or "dual taper" Schilke.
I attached a pic of random mouthpieces. The long shank Schilkes are in the middle (51C4 silver and 51 gold). The mouthpiece immediately to the right of the 51 long is a standard Schilke 51. As you can see, all the other markers (Faxx, Greigo, Greg Black). are the same length as the normal large shank Schilke.
The distinction is exactly the same for bass pieces. I don't think I have any long shank bass Schilke's right now. But I've had a 58 and 59 that are the same length as the 51 and a long shank 58 that is the same as the long shank 51C4 and 51.
Even with the differences in shine, the other 60 looks like it has a somewhat small shank. Any chance it is a euro or for an Olds or something? It could also just be defective--not unheard of from Schilke.
It sounds like you need a regular large shank Schilke 60. It won't wobble.
Somebody with an old Conn bass would probably love to buy that long 60 from you. I would be that guy, but my only Conn bass--a 1934 70H--is not yet Remington.
Paul
I attached a pic of random mouthpieces. The long shank Schilkes are in the middle (51C4 silver and 51 gold). The mouthpiece immediately to the right of the 51 long is a standard Schilke 51. As you can see, all the other markers (Faxx, Greigo, Greg Black). are the same length as the normal large shank Schilke.
The distinction is exactly the same for bass pieces. I don't think I have any long shank bass Schilke's right now. But I've had a 58 and 59 that are the same length as the 51 and a long shank 58 that is the same as the long shank 51C4 and 51.
Even with the differences in shine, the other 60 looks like it has a somewhat small shank. Any chance it is a euro or for an Olds or something? It could also just be defective--not unheard of from Schilke.
It sounds like you need a regular large shank Schilke 60. It won't wobble.
Somebody with an old Conn bass would probably love to buy that long 60 from you. I would be that guy, but my only Conn bass--a 1934 70H--is not yet Remington.
Paul