MB Double tenor/bass case horn doesn't fit....help!
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
Hello,
I just got a mb double (tenor/bass) case, but when I close it the lid hits the thumb rest and the valve engages completely. Even after that, there is still an inch or more to push together in order for the case to close. I contacted the vendor and they said it should be fine if I push the case closed all the way, but I am still unsure and really don't want to damage my horn from prolonged pressure. Does anyone have any work arounds or suggestions? I love MB cases and really hope to be able to fix this issue.
The Shires trubore wrapping and backside of the trigger linkage seems to prevent the tenor bell from laying flat, so I have the velcro braces on the bell side as shown in the picture.
I have attached some pics. Thanks in advance!
I just got a mb double (tenor/bass) case, but when I close it the lid hits the thumb rest and the valve engages completely. Even after that, there is still an inch or more to push together in order for the case to close. I contacted the vendor and they said it should be fine if I push the case closed all the way, but I am still unsure and really don't want to damage my horn from prolonged pressure. Does anyone have any work arounds or suggestions? I love MB cases and really hope to be able to fix this issue.
The Shires trubore wrapping and backside of the trigger linkage seems to prevent the tenor bell from laying flat, so I have the velcro braces on the bell side as shown in the picture.
I have attached some pics. Thanks in advance!
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
Whoops, must have messed up the picture uploads! Let me try that again.
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
[quote="BGuttman"]Pictures?[/quote]
Whoops, must have messed up the picture uploads! Let me try that again.
Whoops, must have messed up the picture uploads! Let me try that again.
- slidefunk
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 19, 2020
I saw this post and knew exactly what you were talking about without seeing the pictures. I took a short video to explain the issue and what you can do to mitigate the risk to your horn.
<YOUTUBE id="IbgaGWA8U7Q">[media]https://youtu.be/IbgaGWA8U7Q</YOUTUBE>
In my opinion, this is a design flaw with the case. Your horns shouldn't be at immediate risk while zipped up in the case, but I believe they are susceptible to damage under certain conditions. Happy to answer any questions you have.
Your case should close without damaging the horns. The pad separating the two bell sections is flexible and has enough cushion to protect the instruments from one another. It's going to feel like the case doesn't want to close but don't be alarmed, they should be fine.
<YOUTUBE id="IbgaGWA8U7Q">
In my opinion, this is a design flaw with the case. Your horns shouldn't be at immediate risk while zipped up in the case, but I believe they are susceptible to damage under certain conditions. Happy to answer any questions you have.
Your case should close without damaging the horns. The pad separating the two bell sections is flexible and has enough cushion to protect the instruments from one another. It's going to feel like the case doesn't want to close but don't be alarmed, they should be fine.
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
[quote="slidefunk"]I saw this post and knew exactly what you were talking about without seeing the pictures. I took a short video to explain the issue and what you can do to mitigate the risk to your horn.
<YOUTUBE id="IbgaGWA8U7Q">[media]https://youtu.be/IbgaGWA8U7Q</YOUTUBE>
In my opinion, this is a design flaw with the case. Your horns shouldn't be at immediate risk while zipped up in the case, but I believe they are susceptible to damage under certain conditions. Happy to answer any questions you have.
Your case should close without damaging the horns. The pad separating the two bell sections is flexible and has enough cushion to protect the instruments from one another. It's going to feel like the case doesn't want to close but don't be alarmed, they should be fine.[/quote]
Thank you for making this super helpful video! I agree with your weight distribution choices and will have to try this out soon. I'm glad to know that it's not just my horns that don't fit. Seriously thanks again for the video.
<YOUTUBE id="IbgaGWA8U7Q">
In my opinion, this is a design flaw with the case. Your horns shouldn't be at immediate risk while zipped up in the case, but I believe they are susceptible to damage under certain conditions. Happy to answer any questions you have.
Your case should close without damaging the horns. The pad separating the two bell sections is flexible and has enough cushion to protect the instruments from one another. It's going to feel like the case doesn't want to close but don't be alarmed, they should be fine.[/quote]
Thank you for making this super helpful video! I agree with your weight distribution choices and will have to try this out soon. I'm glad to know that it's not just my horns that don't fit. Seriously thanks again for the video.
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Simple question:
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
It looks like the higher density hard rubbery pieces are being used in ways that push the bell section up, where they are often used to stop the instrument from sliding around. In my Bonna cases, I use those to immobilize the instrument, not to pad it or prop it up.
- slidefunk
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 19, 2020
[quote="afugate"]Simple question:
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
Looking at pics on the Marcus Bonna site and Hornguys, I'm more and more convinced that propping it up with the dense foam may not be helping. Check these pics out:
Both pics show the rubbery/dense foam used to keep the instrument from sliding around. Obviously, I don't own this case (even though I own 3 other Bonna cases), so I'm speculating here.
Both pics show the rubbery/dense foam used to keep the instrument from sliding around. Obviously, I don't own this case (even though I own 3 other Bonna cases), so I'm speculating here.
- slidefunk
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 19, 2020
[quote="ChadA"]It looks like the higher density hard rubbery pieces are being used in ways that push the bell section up, where they are often used to stop the instrument from sliding around. In my Bonna cases, I use those to immobilize the instrument, not to pad it or prop it up.[/quote]
The hard foam blocks don't push the bell section up at all, they rest like a millimeter or two below the horn. It still sits on its linkage and F tubing. The blocks are just there to redistribute weight when it gets tossed under a plane or set down roughly by a handler. Here it is without the blocks. The lever still comes into contact with the lid when closing it up.
The triangular foam piece is supposed to sit in front of the slide receiver and prevent the bell from moving forward on impact, but mine isn't tall enough to do so because the horn is sitting so high on its linkage.
The hard foam blocks don't push the bell section up at all, they rest like a millimeter or two below the horn. It still sits on its linkage and F tubing. The blocks are just there to redistribute weight when it gets tossed under a plane or set down roughly by a handler. Here it is without the blocks. The lever still comes into contact with the lid when closing it up.
The triangular foam piece is supposed to sit in front of the slide receiver and prevent the bell from moving forward on impact, but mine isn't tall enough to do so because the horn is sitting so high on its linkage.
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="slidefunk"]<QUOTE author="afugate" post_id="155412" time="1629423952" user_id="86">
Simple question:
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.
</QUOTE>
He swings! and a miss... :lol:
Thanks for testing out my goofy suggestion. It just doesn't look like it works in either orientation. :(
--Andy in OKC
Simple question:
Would this work any better if the tenor bell were in the case with the lever facing down toward the inside of the case?
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.
</QUOTE>
He swings! and a miss... :lol:
Thanks for testing out my goofy suggestion. It just doesn't look like it works in either orientation. :(
--Andy in OKC
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
Okay. :) It looks like the tenor bell is resting against a moveable pad (see pic below) instead of against the end of the case.
<ATTACHMENT filename="24802D51-80CF-4D90-BD14-1A9B4CC750E2.jpeg" index="0">[attachment=0]24802D51-80CF-4D90-BD14-1A9B4CC750E2.jpeg</ATTACHMENT>
If that Velcro pad comes out and the bell sits right up against the bell rest, does that make it any better? It might change the angle and make things worse.
Is there too much padding under the bass valve section or is it just too thick? Maybe moving padding under the bass bell (and/or using some of the thinner pads MB put in there) will help. Also, I’d imagine both bells need to be shoved hard against opposite ends of the case, which might move the tenor linkage away from sitting on top of a high point in the bass valve section. Or try pushing the slides in (or out) on the bass valve section (if you haven’t) to see if the spindle/linkage move into a void left by their moving.
But I’m sure you’ve thought of those things. :) By the way, your idea of having both hand slides facing the same way matches the HornGuys and Marcus Bonna pics and seems to be the way things were intended to go.
<ATTACHMENT filename="24802D51-80CF-4D90-BD14-1A9B4CC750E2.jpeg" index="0">
If that Velcro pad comes out and the bell sits right up against the bell rest, does that make it any better? It might change the angle and make things worse.
Is there too much padding under the bass valve section or is it just too thick? Maybe moving padding under the bass bell (and/or using some of the thinner pads MB put in there) will help. Also, I’d imagine both bells need to be shoved hard against opposite ends of the case, which might move the tenor linkage away from sitting on top of a high point in the bass valve section. Or try pushing the slides in (or out) on the bass valve section (if you haven’t) to see if the spindle/linkage move into a void left by their moving.
But I’m sure you’ve thought of those things. :) By the way, your idea of having both hand slides facing the same way matches the HornGuys and Marcus Bonna pics and seems to be the way things were intended to go.
- slidefunk
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 19, 2020
I've tried it without the pad at the end. It helps a little but the thumb lever is still basically resting on the outer shell. I think the main culprit here is my bass trombone, a close wrapped Holton.
Honestly, I don't trust that bell rest at all. If it covered the whole bell it would be awesome and I wouldn't use the extra padding, but it barely covers anything. The whole upper bell ends up resting against the outer fiberglass, which is very flexible at that part of the case. If you're standing the case up its fine because it has those little metal feet to spread the weight, but if it were to get shoved roughly against a suitcase wheel at the right spot I'm not sure how it would hold up. I feel much better having the extra pad there.
If the horn is set down lengthwise on its feet as intended the horns don't actually rest on top of one another, they lay side by side and you don't really have to worry about the linkage at all. It's only really a worry when its being handled by others.
Honestly, I don't trust that bell rest at all. If it covered the whole bell it would be awesome and I wouldn't use the extra padding, but it barely covers anything. The whole upper bell ends up resting against the outer fiberglass, which is very flexible at that part of the case. If you're standing the case up its fine because it has those little metal feet to spread the weight, but if it were to get shoved roughly against a suitcase wheel at the right spot I'm not sure how it would hold up. I feel much better having the extra pad there.
If the horn is set down lengthwise on its feet as intended the horns don't actually rest on top of one another, they lay side by side and you don't really have to worry about the linkage at all. It's only really a worry when its being handled by others.
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
[quote="slidefunk"]I've tried it without the pad at the end. It helps a little but the thumb lever is still basically resting on the outer shell. I think the main culprit here is my bass trombone, a close wrapped Holton.[/quote]
If I take out the padding under the bass valve section and at the end of the tenor bell, the shell still comes into contact with the thumb lever....which seems like something that shouldn't happen... None-the-less, I am using a slightly thinner pad at the end of the tenor bell to try and help bring the thumb lever lower.
I have a Shires open-wrap Thayer valve section. Perhaps it's a bit wider than other valve section, but I wouldn't know.
If I take out the padding under the bass valve section and at the end of the tenor bell, the shell still comes into contact with the thumb lever....which seems like something that shouldn't happen... None-the-less, I am using a slightly thinner pad at the end of the tenor bell to try and help bring the thumb lever lower.
I have a Shires open-wrap Thayer valve section. Perhaps it's a bit wider than other valve section, but I wouldn't know.
- DillonMac
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Aug 18, 2021
[quote="afugate"]<QUOTE author="slidefunk" post_id="155456" time="1629484923" user_id="10403">
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.[/quote]
He swings! and a miss... :lol:
Thanks for testing out my goofy suggestion. It just doesn't look like it works in either orientation. :(
--Andy in OKC
</QUOTE>
I read somewhere that someone else does this and uses cloth to protect the slides from the thumb lever. My main concern is that the bell gets pushed up a little higher because it doesn't fit the angle as well. The case lid ends up pushing down on the rim of the bell a little bit. I also tried it without the pad, but the angle really ends up forcing the thumb rest even further towards the slides.
I've experimented with that orientation. I think it has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's tough to tell whether or not the lid is coming into contact with the back side of the linkage. I would guess not, but there certainly can't be much extra space. Either way, the horn is sitting partially on its linkage. You would need to still place hard foam segments under the bell bracing to redistribute some of the pressure.
The one thing that jumps out to me in this configuration is that if the bell section shifts, the lever is now potentially coming into contact with the slide compartment. Adding padding above the slides may or may not help. My tenor slide has jumped out of its compartment before.[/quote]
He swings! and a miss... :lol:
Thanks for testing out my goofy suggestion. It just doesn't look like it works in either orientation. :(
--Andy in OKC
</QUOTE>
I read somewhere that someone else does this and uses cloth to protect the slides from the thumb lever. My main concern is that the bell gets pushed up a little higher because it doesn't fit the angle as well. The case lid ends up pushing down on the rim of the bell a little bit. I also tried it without the pad, but the angle really ends up forcing the thumb rest even further towards the slides.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
There are multiple people who didn't test how horns fit in a $900 case, and didn't return the case? I'm not sure which part of this story has me scratching my head the most.
- slidefunk
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 19, 2020
[quote="hyperbolica"]There are multiple people who didn't test how horns fit in a $900 case, and didn't return the case? I'm not sure which part of this story has me scratching my head the most.[/quote]
The horns fit, you just need to arrange the padding correctly. There are only like 3 doubling cases out on the market and this one still seems like the best option if you travel often.
The horns fit, you just need to arrange the padding correctly. There are only like 3 doubling cases out on the market and this one still seems like the best option if you travel often.