“The King” by H.N. White

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-16 7:57 p.m.

Hi all! I’ve had this trombone for a few years and know a little bit about it (made by the H.N. White company sometime between 1893 and 1899), but was wondering if anyone knew more about it!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 2:11 a.m.

I have one of these, too (actually 2: one High Pitch and one Low Pitch). Mine has a higher serial number -- in the 7,000s.

Is the brace under the cork barrel doubled (a straight part and a curved part)? If so, it's not as old as you think. The doubled brace was intended to strengthen the inner slide against misalignment. It was invented around 1907 and patented in 1913. I just find the doubled brace hard to hold.

Thomas King was a trombone soloist around the turn of the 20th Century and Henderson White was the technician who made the instrument (and founded the company).

You can find a lot of history about the HN White company on the hnwhote.com Web site.

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 4:03 p.m.

Do you know what model it is? This is what the slide looks like

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 4:29 p.m.

Without the patent on the cork barrel but with the double brace, I'd put it between 1907 and 1913. Depending on bore, it's the #1 Solo, #2 Solo, or #3 Solo (smallest bore #1). Most likely #2 as this appears to be the most popular model.

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 4:41 p.m.

The patent says “May 17-1910”

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 4:46 p.m.

You have a patent statement? If that's the case the horn is 1910 or newer. Somehow I missed that on your pictures. Is there also a lion head on the cork barrel?

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 4:48 p.m.

The patent is on the curved brace. There is a lion head on the barrel, the slide, and on the bell section where it receives the slide. Also, the inner slide diameter appears (tape measure and eye judgment haha) to be 15/32 of an inch.

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 4:54 p.m.

Also, the inside width of the hand slide is just under 2.75 inches, and the bell is 6 5/8 inches in diameter

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 5:29 p.m.

You may have the #1 solo based on the measurements you provided. Note that your slide is 0.468", about the same bore as a Bach #37 trumpet!

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 5:41 p.m.

Very cool! Any guesses of when it’s from? I’m thinking early 1910s. Also, do you mean the number 1 from the picture below?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 7:53 p.m.

Yup. No. 1.

Now the question is whether it's High Pitch or Low Pitch. If you are having real problems tuning to other instruments, it's probably High Pitch (almost a half step sharp). Low Pitch is a little flat.

Also, even though a modern small shank mouthpiece "sorta" fits, you really need a shorter mouthpiece with a smaller shank.

Arendsdale · 2021-10-17 8:36 p.m.

Yup, definitely flat! And I do use a modern small shank, but it actually seems a little too small/goes further into the horn than it should. Maybe the bore got widened somehow. What gives it away as a No. 1 vs a No. 2 or 3?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-17 10:02 p.m.

Bell diameter rules out #3. Your measurement of bore indicated 0.468", which is about the same size as a Conn 2H and smaller than anything we use today. That would indicate more likely a #1 than a #2.

Arendsdale · by **Arendsdale** » 2021-10-17 10:31 p.m.

Ah ok. I was thinking it might be a No. 2 because on the 1911 version on the website, the image actually has the patent as May 16-1910 and my horn says the 17th. And the No. 1 doesn’t mention the patent date.

nfloyd77 · by **nfloyd77** » 2021-10-29 6:15 p.m.

I may have found one of the pre-1930’s models in silver. I’m not sure yet which model it is. What are they generally worth? Are they more or less valuable than the later years?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-29 6:31 p.m.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but these very old Kings are not terribly valuable nor are they very desirable. They are generally way too small for today's requirements. The friction fit between slide and bell is not desirable (and tends to come apart at the worst times). The double brace for the inner slide is uncomfortable to hold. If it's High Pitch, it's absolutely unusable.

They do have nice engraving, and if the silver plate is not too tarnished it can be polished up to look great.

If you have a period instrument group for its period, it may have a use. Otherwise, no.

nfloyd77 · by **nfloyd77** » 2021-10-29 7:36 p.m.

Thanks for the honest assessment. The asking price on this one is $280 but it’s definitely a friction fit and if I can’t play it regularly I don’t have much use for it.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-10-29 8:35 p.m.

Note: I have two of them; one each High Pitch and Low Pitch. The Low Pitch is below A-440 even with the tuning slide all the way in. I can make the High Pitch bell + Low Pitch slide sorta work. I also had to do a lot of work on the slide to get it almost passable. I paid about $100 each.

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“The King” by H.N. White