Flugabone restoration
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Other than J. Landress Brass and Sweeney Brass are there any other folks out there doing flugabone restorations?
I don't mind shipping mine out to the east coast (I live in the midwest), but wanted to know who else was out there doing cool stuff with these horns. Is what they're doing with flugabones something that any good tech could do?
I don't mind shipping mine out to the east coast (I live in the midwest), but wanted to know who else was out there doing cool stuff with these horns. Is what they're doing with flugabones something that any good tech could do?
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
I think restoring should be easy for any “good” tech. Cosmetic restoring would require special skills though, but if you just need dings and cleaning done then that should be fairly easy. If you want screw bell and other mods i would go with one of the shops you mentioned.
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
Not sure how many flugabones they’ve done but BAC does build bass trumpets and they do custom work, so they would be worth looking into, especially as far as the location goes.
I agree with Elow though on the special skillset. Many mods take some ingenuity to make them work. A buddy of mine got his flugabone done by Sweeney and apart from the bell cutting for the screwbell there were multiple new bracing points needed and new bends in critical tubing.
I agree with Elow though on the special skillset. Many mods take some ingenuity to make them work. A buddy of mine got his flugabone done by Sweeney and apart from the bell cutting for the screwbell there were multiple new bracing points needed and new bends in critical tubing.
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="TromboneSam"]Not sure how many flugabones they’ve done but BAC does build bass trumpets and they do custom work, so they would be worth looking into, especially as far as the location goes.
I agree with Elow though on the special skillset. Many mods take some ingenuity to make them work. A buddy of mine got his flugabone done by Sweeney and apart from the bell cutting for the screwbell there were multiple new bracing points needed and new bends in critical tubing.[/quote]
Yeah, I’ve heard this too. One of my friend’s sent hers to Sweeney too and didn’t get the cut bell. Looks great and seems relatively affordable for what they do.
I’ve thought about BAC as well. I might have to make some calls. Does BAC have the old FE Olds equipment? I’m not sure if that was at all part of the Kanstul acquisition
I agree with Elow though on the special skillset. Many mods take some ingenuity to make them work. A buddy of mine got his flugabone done by Sweeney and apart from the bell cutting for the screwbell there were multiple new bracing points needed and new bends in critical tubing.[/quote]
Yeah, I’ve heard this too. One of my friend’s sent hers to Sweeney too and didn’t get the cut bell. Looks great and seems relatively affordable for what they do.
I’ve thought about BAC as well. I might have to make some calls. Does BAC have the old FE Olds equipment? I’m not sure if that was at all part of the Kanstul acquisition
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JLivi"]Does BAC have the old FE Olds equipment? I’m not sure if that was at all part of the Kanstul acquisition[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.
- mbtrombone
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Jan 29, 2019
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="JLivi" post_id="161050" time="1635434696" user_id="3264">
Does BAC have the old FE Olds equipment? I’m not sure if that was at all part of the Kanstul acquisition[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.
</QUOTE>
I might have to agree. I just got an Olds Marching trombone and the store I got it from also had a new old stock Blessing and the designs looked identical. I also was talking to a tuba player that thought UMI and Bach had bought most of the Olds Tooling back in the day? That’s why Bach Bell front euphoniums were identical to Olds as well as some of their older Tubas before rebranding of Yamahas was happening in the 90/00s?
But it wouldn’t hurt to contact BAC to find out!
The issue I have is I know Zig had some strange things in Anaheim. I had a custom bronze bell made on an old 42 mandrel he had, so… who knows what he bought if anything when Olds closed up.
Does BAC have the old FE Olds equipment? I’m not sure if that was at all part of the Kanstul acquisition[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.
</QUOTE>
I might have to agree. I just got an Olds Marching trombone and the store I got it from also had a new old stock Blessing and the designs looked identical. I also was talking to a tuba player that thought UMI and Bach had bought most of the Olds Tooling back in the day? That’s why Bach Bell front euphoniums were identical to Olds as well as some of their older Tubas before rebranding of Yamahas was happening in the 90/00s?
But it wouldn’t hurt to contact BAC to find out!
The issue I have is I know Zig had some strange things in Anaheim. I had a custom bronze bell made on an old 42 mandrel he had, so… who knows what he bought if anything when Olds closed up.
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="mbtrombone"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="161064" time="1635438086" user_id="158">
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.[/quote]
I might have to agree. I just got an Olds Marching trombone and the store I got it from also had a new old stock Blessing and the designs looked identical. I also was talking to a tuba player that thought UMI and Bach had bought most of the Olds Tooling back in the day? That’s why Bach Bell front euphoniums were identical to Olds as well as some of their older Tubas before rebranding of Yamahas was happening in the 90/00s?
But it wouldn’t hurt to contact BAC to find out!
The issue I have is I know Zig had some strange things in Anaheim. I had a custom bronze bell made on an old 42 mandrel he had, so… who knows what he bought if anything when Olds closed up.
</QUOTE>
I could be wrong, but I thought Zig worked for Olds and eventually left for King. And that he had something to do with the marching trombone at Olds and Flugabone at King. It's likely he had nothing to do with obtaining equipment when Olds went under, but I know that Kanstul made a flugabone and assumed Zig had some tie, which in turn would've ended up at BAC. I'm make a LOT of assumptions here :lol:
I'm pretty sure that Kanstul got nothing from Olds, which folded in 1979. Two separate entities. And what BAC got from Kanstul's collection of tooling is probably not very helpful for this project.[/quote]
I might have to agree. I just got an Olds Marching trombone and the store I got it from also had a new old stock Blessing and the designs looked identical. I also was talking to a tuba player that thought UMI and Bach had bought most of the Olds Tooling back in the day? That’s why Bach Bell front euphoniums were identical to Olds as well as some of their older Tubas before rebranding of Yamahas was happening in the 90/00s?
But it wouldn’t hurt to contact BAC to find out!
The issue I have is I know Zig had some strange things in Anaheim. I had a custom bronze bell made on an old 42 mandrel he had, so… who knows what he bought if anything when Olds closed up.
</QUOTE>
I could be wrong, but I thought Zig worked for Olds and eventually left for King. And that he had something to do with the marching trombone at Olds and Flugabone at King. It's likely he had nothing to do with obtaining equipment when Olds went under, but I know that Kanstul made a flugabone and assumed Zig had some tie, which in turn would've ended up at BAC. I'm make a LOT of assumptions here :lol:
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JLivi"]
I could be wrong, but I thought Zig worked for Olds and eventually left for King. And that he had something to do with the marching trombone at Olds and Flugabone at King. It's likely he had nothing to do with obtaining equipment when Olds went under, but I know that Kanstul made a flugabone and assumed Zig had some tie, which in turn would've ended up at BAC. I'm make a LOT of assumptions here :lol:[/quote]
I've read that the Kanstul flugabone was much more like the King than the Olds. I personally like the Olds/Bach/Reynolds/Blessing design better than the King with the bigger bore and the smaller bell. Even most of the Chinese flugabones use the smaller bore.
I could be wrong, but I thought Zig worked for Olds and eventually left for King. And that he had something to do with the marching trombone at Olds and Flugabone at King. It's likely he had nothing to do with obtaining equipment when Olds went under, but I know that Kanstul made a flugabone and assumed Zig had some tie, which in turn would've ended up at BAC. I'm make a LOT of assumptions here :lol:[/quote]
I've read that the Kanstul flugabone was much more like the King than the Olds. I personally like the Olds/Bach/Reynolds/Blessing design better than the King with the bigger bore and the smaller bell. Even most of the Chinese flugabones use the smaller bore.
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]
I've read that the Kanstul flugabone was much more like the King than the Olds. I personally like the Olds/Bach/Reynolds/Blessing design better than the King with the bigger bore and the smaller bell. Even most of the Chinese flugabones use the smaller bore.[/quote]
Yeah, from Kantsul's website their flugabone looks like a King 1130. I thought I read or heard somewhere that Zig had a hand in developing the compact marching trombone for Olds and then moved over to King in the 70's and changed the design up a little bit. It's also possible I made that up in my head because I saw Kanstul sold a marching trombone and I just connected some dots that didn't exist :lol:
I've read that the Kanstul flugabone was much more like the King than the Olds. I personally like the Olds/Bach/Reynolds/Blessing design better than the King with the bigger bore and the smaller bell. Even most of the Chinese flugabones use the smaller bore.[/quote]
Yeah, from Kantsul's website their flugabone looks like a King 1130. I thought I read or heard somewhere that Zig had a hand in developing the compact marching trombone for Olds and then moved over to King in the 70's and changed the design up a little bit. It's also possible I made that up in my head because I saw Kanstul sold a marching trombone and I just connected some dots that didn't exist :lol:
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JLivi"]Yeah, from Kantsul's website their flugabone looks like a King 1130. I thought I read or heard somewhere that Zig had a hand in developing the compact marching trombone for Olds and then moved over to King in the 70's and changed the design up a little bit. It's also possible I made that up in my head because I saw Kanstul sold a marching trombone and I just connected some dots that didn't exist :lol:[/quote]
No, I think I saw that too. But I didn't think the King was an improvement over the Olds.
No, I think I saw that too. But I didn't think the King was an improvement over the Olds.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
When I visited the Kanstul factory, I was told that Kanstul did end up with some Olds tooling, so that would now be in the hands of BAC. At the very least, BAC says they have an original George Roberts bell mandrel
(scroll down to the bottom of this page: https://www.coolisbac.com/custom-trombones).
But the tooling for the tubas, baritones, and marching trombone is said to have ended up with Bach in Elkhart (the close resemblance of the Bach products to Olds products would tend to support this story). Probably the tooling for sousaphones and marching mellos, too.
(scroll down to the bottom of this page: https://www.coolisbac.com/custom-trombones).
But the tooling for the tubas, baritones, and marching trombone is said to have ended up with Bach in Elkhart (the close resemblance of the Bach products to Olds products would tend to support this story). Probably the tooling for sousaphones and marching mellos, too.
- bbocaner
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
The Kanstul 955 is wrapped like the King 1130 and the bore and bell size are identical, but it's not a copy. For one thing, it's several inches longer than the King. It does play significantly differently.
- TrumpetMartinez
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Feb 11, 2022
A few months ago I aquired an Olds valve trombone. A good tech should be a good bet at making it work (ceased slides, and dents) Sweeney and Laundress are you're best bet if you want a really good horn.
I'm a tinkerer so I'm reversing my 1st valve slide to affix a King System Blue Trigger from a marching Euphonium, a delaquer, and if I'm up to it cutting the bell.
I'm a tinkerer so I'm reversing my 1st valve slide to affix a King System Blue Trigger from a marching Euphonium, a delaquer, and if I'm up to it cutting the bell.
- TromboneSam
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jul 30, 2018
[quote="JLivi"]Other than J. Landress Brass and Sweeney Brass are there any other folks out there doing flugabone restorations?
I don't mind shipping mine out to the east coast (I live in the midwest), but wanted to know who else was out there doing cool stuff with these horns. Is what they're doing with flugabones something that any good tech could do?[/quote]
I don’t know how close you are to DJ in Chester, IL, but he actually just had ACME do a resto-job on a Reynolds (olds style) flugabone for me. It’s not the prettiest because I didn’t want/need that for now, but I know ACME has done full restos before. The valves, slides, and solder joints are all amazing. Would be worth reaching out to DJ!!
I don't mind shipping mine out to the east coast (I live in the midwest), but wanted to know who else was out there doing cool stuff with these horns. Is what they're doing with flugabones something that any good tech could do?[/quote]
I don’t know how close you are to DJ in Chester, IL, but he actually just had ACME do a resto-job on a Reynolds (olds style) flugabone for me. It’s not the prettiest because I didn’t want/need that for now, but I know ACME has done full restos before. The valves, slides, and solder joints are all amazing. Would be worth reaching out to DJ!!
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="TromboneSam"]
I don’t know how close you are to DJ in Chester, IL, but he actually just had ACME do a resto-job on a Reynolds (olds style) flugabone for me. It’s not the prettiest because I didn’t want/need that for now, but I know ACME has done full restos before. The valves, slides, and solder joints are all amazing. Would be worth reaching out to DJ!![/quote]
I'd love to see pictures of that! I live just outside chicago so ACME wouldn't be a bad idea. I've also been thinking about just taking the horn to a local guy, Dana Hofer, who is a magician with instruments. I just don't know if I need to bring it to someone that has experience with flugabones or not. But I would love to get the Sweeney Brass treatment. Scott's posted some really cool stuff on instagram, specific to flugabones.
I don’t know how close you are to DJ in Chester, IL, but he actually just had ACME do a resto-job on a Reynolds (olds style) flugabone for me. It’s not the prettiest because I didn’t want/need that for now, but I know ACME has done full restos before. The valves, slides, and solder joints are all amazing. Would be worth reaching out to DJ!![/quote]
I'd love to see pictures of that! I live just outside chicago so ACME wouldn't be a bad idea. I've also been thinking about just taking the horn to a local guy, Dana Hofer, who is a magician with instruments. I just don't know if I need to bring it to someone that has experience with flugabones or not. But I would love to get the Sweeney Brass treatment. Scott's posted some really cool stuff on instagram, specific to flugabones.
- hntjr
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Aug 05, 2019
Lot of discussion here about Olds tooling. Here is my posting of my Bach Merecedes 883. It will answer some questions about Bach and Olds tooling. http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=70949.