Bell Flare Storage
- mbtrombone
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Jan 29, 2019
Hi everyone,
I have over the years accumulated a few extra bell flares for my Tenor and Bass trombones. Until yesterday I always had a spare case to hold them, but the day has finally come and I am out of cases. Normally I would just get another hard case, but I looked recently and the prices of cases are getting a little out of hand, and I also want something a little more space saving compared to a full hard shell bass case. Just curious if anyone out there has tried something else? I live in earthquake country, so something relatively hard would be preferable to a bag. Any ideas?
Thanks
I have over the years accumulated a few extra bell flares for my Tenor and Bass trombones. Until yesterday I always had a spare case to hold them, but the day has finally come and I am out of cases. Normally I would just get another hard case, but I looked recently and the prices of cases are getting a little out of hand, and I also want something a little more space saving compared to a full hard shell bass case. Just curious if anyone out there has tried something else? I live in earthquake country, so something relatively hard would be preferable to a bag. Any ideas?
Thanks
- muschem
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Jan 17, 2021
I haven't run into the problem you describe as yet, as I'm still in the process of rebuilding my stable of horns. But, I can imagine being in this situation before too long. One of my back burner projects is to build a road/flight case for my screw bell tenor. I like the idea of having something very robust and also sized exactly to fit my use case.
There are a pretty wide array of options if you go this route. You can customize the dimensions, materials, and features to your liking, so I'd imagine the approach might work well for storing extra flares, either individually, or in sets. If you like to DIY, there are suppliers for the materials you'd need (one example: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.diyroadcasesstore.com/categ ... -kits.html">https://www.diyroadcasesstore.com/categories/case-kits.html</LINK_TEXT>). Or, if you prefer to buy ready-made, there are some options for custom-sized cases that way as well.
Before I had the idea to build a road case, I was thinking about using a case originally meant for a different purpose, like a bow or rifle case. I was looking at something like a Nanuk 985 (<LINK_TEXT text="https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?va ... 1895261229">https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?variant=33591895261229</LINK_TEXT>) for a screw bell tenor (other similar options exist from Pelican, SKB, and other manufacturers), but I'm sure you could find options like this with a little more depth to store a non-screw bell flare. The pick-and-pluck foam should be easy enough to form into an appropriate bell flare shape, but I don't know what the long-term impacts might be to lacquer or plating if/when the foam breaks down. Most cases like this can come without foam insert as well if the foam contact on the finish is a concern. But, then you'd need a different solution for holding the flares securely in place. For air-tight cases like this, you'd probably also want to use a desiccant pack (one option: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidif ... B015OTBKAA">https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidifier-Desiccant-Orange-Chloride/dp/B015OTBKAA</LINK_TEXT>) for long-term storage.
These may not be what you were going for, but hopefully they're good for inspiring some other ideas if nothing else.
There are a pretty wide array of options if you go this route. You can customize the dimensions, materials, and features to your liking, so I'd imagine the approach might work well for storing extra flares, either individually, or in sets. If you like to DIY, there are suppliers for the materials you'd need (one example: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.diyroadcasesstore.com/categ ... -kits.html">https://www.diyroadcasesstore.com/categories/case-kits.html</LINK_TEXT>). Or, if you prefer to buy ready-made, there are some options for custom-sized cases that way as well.
Before I had the idea to build a road case, I was thinking about using a case originally meant for a different purpose, like a bow or rifle case. I was looking at something like a Nanuk 985 (<LINK_TEXT text="https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?va ... 1895261229">https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?variant=33591895261229</LINK_TEXT>) for a screw bell tenor (other similar options exist from Pelican, SKB, and other manufacturers), but I'm sure you could find options like this with a little more depth to store a non-screw bell flare. The pick-and-pluck foam should be easy enough to form into an appropriate bell flare shape, but I don't know what the long-term impacts might be to lacquer or plating if/when the foam breaks down. Most cases like this can come without foam insert as well if the foam contact on the finish is a concern. But, then you'd need a different solution for holding the flares securely in place. For air-tight cases like this, you'd probably also want to use a desiccant pack (one option: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidif ... B015OTBKAA">https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidifier-Desiccant-Orange-Chloride/dp/B015OTBKAA</LINK_TEXT>) for long-term storage.
These may not be what you were going for, but hopefully they're good for inspiring some other ideas if nothing else.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Are you talking "just flares" or do your flares also have the tuning slides and modular connecting hardware on them. If what you have is "just flares," they can be stacked on top of each other. Just make sure the smallest flares are on the bottom and they should get progressively larger toward the top.
If you have flares with the modular connectors on them, life gets more complicated. I recommend finding a very large suitcase and customizing the inside with pieces of foam rubber. You could probably fit up to four flares inside a very large suitcase.
For me, bell flares are just part of the decor in my "music cave." If I turn around from my computer, I think I have at least a dozen bell flares on the floor and up on a shelf. My wife refers to them as "brass dust magnets."
If you have flares with the modular connectors on them, life gets more complicated. I recommend finding a very large suitcase and customizing the inside with pieces of foam rubber. You could probably fit up to four flares inside a very large suitcase.
For me, bell flares are just part of the decor in my "music cave." If I turn around from my computer, I think I have at least a dozen bell flares on the floor and up on a shelf. My wife refers to them as "brass dust magnets."
- mbtrombone
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Jan 29, 2019
So yeah to clarify they are Shires bells with fittings. I also am trying not to leave them out since I live in Earthquake country and recently we have had a few small quakes that made me a bit nervous about leaving instruments and parts out.
- Mamaposaune
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Sep 22, 2018
To keep it simple and inexpensive, you could just get some sturdy cardboard boxes, just large enough for the flares wrapped in foam or bubble wrap. Easy to mark and stack.
- mbtrombone
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Jan 29, 2019
[quote="Mamaposaune"]To keep it simple and inexpensive, you could just get some sturdy cardboard boxes, just large enough for the flares wrapped in foam or bubble wrap. Easy to mark and stack.[/quote]
That would work for long term storage, but I plan on swapping the bells quite a bit for the foreseeable future as I rediscover my tenor sound and dial in my bass sound.
I am now toying with the idea of replacing some bookcases in the room and putting in new ones with glass doors to hold parts like bells and valve sets. Some of the ikea stuff is going to be cheaper than buying a bunch of decent hard cases…
That would work for long term storage, but I plan on swapping the bells quite a bit for the foreseeable future as I rediscover my tenor sound and dial in my bass sound.
I am now toying with the idea of replacing some bookcases in the room and putting in new ones with glass doors to hold parts like bells and valve sets. Some of the ikea stuff is going to be cheaper than buying a bunch of decent hard cases…
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
If you have the wall space for it, I see brackets for sale online every now and then that screw into wall studs with what looks like the top of a trombone stand pointing up vertically. A few of those along a wall would be easy to access, and would serve as a bit of "art" in a practice studio. You could also put entire horns on those as well.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]If you have the wall space for it, I see brackets for sale online every now and then that screw into wall studs with what looks like the top of a trombone stand pointing up vertically. A few of those along a wall would be easy to access, and would serve as a bit of "art" in a practice studio. You could also put entire horns on those as well.
Jim Scott[/quote]
I‘d be interested in a couple of these, anyone know where I might be able to find them and what they might be called?
Jim Scott[/quote]
I‘d be interested in a couple of these, anyone know where I might be able to find them and what they might be called?
- HRMBTrombone
- Posts: 131
- Joined: May 05, 2019
String Swing Trombone Hanger - Flat Wall Holder for All Trombones - Stand Accessories Home or Band Room Studio Wall - Musical Instruments Safe without Hard Cases - Made in USA
That’s what I got trombone stand for the wall I bought on Amazon.
That’s what I got trombone stand for the wall I bought on Amazon.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Thanks, that‘s exactly what I meant.
Having thought about it my landlord may not be too pleased about me drilling a load of holes in the wall but seeing the picture has given me the idea of just buying a couple of compact trombone stands and putting them safely in the corner of the room. Will come in handy for gigs when I play more than one horn as well.
Having thought about it my landlord may not be too pleased about me drilling a load of holes in the wall but seeing the picture has given me the idea of just buying a couple of compact trombone stands and putting them safely in the corner of the room. Will come in handy for gigs when I play more than one horn as well.
- mbtrombone
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Jan 29, 2019
I have seen those wall mount trombone stands before, but they make me nervous. I don’t mind the idea of putting my Conn 18H on one, but my double axial, Sterling Silver bell bass makes me a lot more nervous. For now I bought a really cheap case from a friend, but the plan is to get a few book/display cases for displaying/storing the bell flares I am trying and the euphoniums I am playing (hard cases were impossible to find specs that matched my horns on the euphs). Right now the only things sitting out each night are a bell flare and a marching trombone by olds. Once I finish everything I will post some pics.
- baroquetrombone
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Apr 16, 2018
This is what I came here to say. There are lots of case options that would work well for just bells, I think. I'm not sure they're all that space-saving compared to trombone cases, but they're guaranteed safe especially if you cut the standard foam well, and it's easy to get them in/out. My flight cases are all Pelican Storm and I've had no damage over many thousands of miles.
As for the wall storage thing, when at home, all of my trombones are on the wall. They're on little custom made wood hangers that use the slide brace rather than the bell (because many of my instruments are friction-fit), but I don't worry about them falling. I even have an old million pound contra on one. No problems yet, but they also aren't in a high traffic (or earthquake prone) area.
[quote="muschem"]Before I had the idea to build a road case, I was thinking about using a case originally meant for a different purpose, like a bow or rifle case. I was looking at something like a Nanuk 985 (<LINK_TEXT text="https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?va ... 1895261229">https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?variant=33591895261229</LINK_TEXT>) for a screw bell tenor (other similar options exist from Pelican, SKB, and other manufacturers), but I'm sure you could find options like this with a little more depth to store a non-screw bell flare. The pick-and-pluck foam should be easy enough to form into an appropriate bell flare shape, but I don't know what the long-term impacts might be to lacquer or plating if/when the foam breaks down. Most cases like this can come without foam insert as well if the foam contact on the finish is a concern. But, then you'd need a different solution for holding the flares securely in place. For air-tight cases like this, you'd probably also want to use a desiccant pack (one option: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidif ... B015OTBKAA">https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidifier-Desiccant-Orange-Chloride/dp/B015OTBKAA</LINK_TEXT>) for long-term storage.[/quote]
As for the wall storage thing, when at home, all of my trombones are on the wall. They're on little custom made wood hangers that use the slide brace rather than the bell (because many of my instruments are friction-fit), but I don't worry about them falling. I even have an old million pound contra on one. No problems yet, but they also aren't in a high traffic (or earthquake prone) area.
[quote="muschem"]Before I had the idea to build a road case, I was thinking about using a case originally meant for a different purpose, like a bow or rifle case. I was looking at something like a Nanuk 985 (<LINK_TEXT text="https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?va ... 1895261229">https://nanuk.com/products/nanuk-985?variant=33591895261229</LINK_TEXT>) for a screw bell tenor (other similar options exist from Pelican, SKB, and other manufacturers), but I'm sure you could find options like this with a little more depth to store a non-screw bell flare. The pick-and-pluck foam should be easy enough to form into an appropriate bell flare shape, but I don't know what the long-term impacts might be to lacquer or plating if/when the foam breaks down. Most cases like this can come without foam insert as well if the foam contact on the finish is a concern. But, then you'd need a different solution for holding the flares securely in place. For air-tight cases like this, you'd probably also want to use a desiccant pack (one option: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidif ... B015OTBKAA">https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Dehumidifier-Desiccant-Orange-Chloride/dp/B015OTBKAA</LINK_TEXT>) for long-term storage.[/quote]
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="baroquetrombone"]This is what I came here to say. There are lots of case options that would work well for just bells, I think. I'm not sure they're all that space-saving compared to trombone cases, but they're guaranteed safe especially if you cut the standard foam well, and it's easy to get them in/out. [color=#FF0000]My flight cases are all Pelican Storm and I've had no damage over many thousands of miles.[/quote]
Do you recall which case dimensions you purchased?
--Andy in OKC
Do you recall which case dimensions you purchased?
--Andy in OKC
- baroquetrombone
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Apr 16, 2018
[quote="afugate"]Do you recall which case dimensions you purchased?
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I use an iM3100 and an iM3220, but the biggest bells that go in them are 19th century French trombones. Afaik, there isn't one Storm case that will fit a modern bell AND a slide, sadly.
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
I use an iM3100 and an iM3220, but the biggest bells that go in them are 19th century French trombones. Afaik, there isn't one Storm case that will fit a modern bell AND a slide, sadly.
- muschem
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Jan 17, 2021
[quote="HRMBTrombone"]String Swing Trombone Hanger - Flat Wall Holder for All Trombones - Stand Accessories Home or Band Room Studio Wall - Musical Instruments Safe without Hard Cases - Made in USA
That’s what I got trombone stand for the wall I bought on Amazon.[/quote]
I looked at those on Amazon, and I almost went that way. Instead, I decided to make some myself using walnut plaques, black iron pipe, and brass fittings. I put in a horizontal 90 degree bend, so that the slide could be closer to the wall. The last part I haven't yet finished is to wrap the slide-facing part of the pipe extending from the wall in a thick black leather, to protect against metal-on-metal contact in over-rotation scenarios. Perhaps not a style with universal appeal (sort of came out with a steampunk vibe), but I like how it turned out:
<ATTACHMENT filename="uncovered.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]uncovered.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="sock_cover.jpg" index="2">[attachment=2]sock_cover.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="two_stands.jpg" index="1">[attachment=1]two_stands.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
That’s what I got trombone stand for the wall I bought on Amazon.[/quote]
I looked at those on Amazon, and I almost went that way. Instead, I decided to make some myself using walnut plaques, black iron pipe, and brass fittings. I put in a horizontal 90 degree bend, so that the slide could be closer to the wall. The last part I haven't yet finished is to wrap the slide-facing part of the pipe extending from the wall in a thick black leather, to protect against metal-on-metal contact in over-rotation scenarios. Perhaps not a style with universal appeal (sort of came out with a steampunk vibe), but I like how it turned out:
<ATTACHMENT filename="uncovered.jpg" index="0">
<ATTACHMENT filename="sock_cover.jpg" index="2">
<ATTACHMENT filename="two_stands.jpg" index="1">
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
Cleaver and attractive. Like the slides being protected as well.
I had a trumpet teacher who had a large chest he made to store his rather large trumpet collection. It was four foot high and eight foot long (sheet of plywood was the back). It was as deep as a trumpet with cubicles about 8x8 square. He used carpet to cushion the horns.
While he stored his horns horizontally a similar chest could be built for trombone bells. It could be made modular with extra cells added as needed. Put a lid on it and they are protected.
I had a trumpet teacher who had a large chest he made to store his rather large trumpet collection. It was four foot high and eight foot long (sheet of plywood was the back). It was as deep as a trumpet with cubicles about 8x8 square. He used carpet to cushion the horns.
While he stored his horns horizontally a similar chest could be built for trombone bells. It could be made modular with extra cells added as needed. Put a lid on it and they are protected.
- andym
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 23, 2018
Those are nice wall hangers. I am guessing that those are threaded fittings. What did you do to make sure they are solid at the angles you wanted?
I have one horn on a String Swing wall mount. I do rotate the slide so it is next to the metal edge and protected the slide with rubber tubing along the edges. I just sliced the tubing along the length and slid it onto the sheet metal. Not as pretty as yours but it works. I also didn’t like the rubber parts from the string swing and swapped them with a K&M stand.
I have one horn on a String Swing wall mount. I do rotate the slide so it is next to the metal edge and protected the slide with rubber tubing along the edges. I just sliced the tubing along the length and slid it onto the sheet metal. Not as pretty as yours but it works. I also didn’t like the rubber parts from the string swing and swapped them with a K&M stand.
- muschem
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Jan 17, 2021
Thanks!
They are threaded fittings, yes. I soldered the joints after tightening, to make it less likely that they would move. The choice of position helps also, as the load is oriented in the direction of rotation which further tightens the connections. If you start with a very snug joint, the relatively light weight of the horn acting on a pretty short moment arm probably won’t produce any undesired movement.
For the bell support, I was considering taking parts from some spare floor stands. I found a combination of a round plaque of a certain size topped by a small sink plunger works pretty well, so I stuck with that. The top end of the pipe inserted into the bell is covered with a rubber cap.
They are threaded fittings, yes. I soldered the joints after tightening, to make it less likely that they would move. The choice of position helps also, as the load is oriented in the direction of rotation which further tightens the connections. If you start with a very snug joint, the relatively light weight of the horn acting on a pretty short moment arm probably won’t produce any undesired movement.
For the bell support, I was considering taking parts from some spare floor stands. I found a combination of a round plaque of a certain size topped by a small sink plunger works pretty well, so I stuck with that. The top end of the pipe inserted into the bell is covered with a rubber cap.
- baroquetrombone
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Apr 16, 2018
That looks great! Well done.
- andym
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 23, 2018
Thanks for the additional info. Using the plaques is a brilliant time saver on the woodworking.
I’d have to learn how to solder joints. I might also consider using the engine grade thread locking compound. That stuff is essentially a permanent bond.
I eventually hope to have more horns on the wall and your hangers are definitely the nicest looking.
I’d have to learn how to solder joints. I might also consider using the engine grade thread locking compound. That stuff is essentially a permanent bond.
I eventually hope to have more horns on the wall and your hangers are definitely the nicest looking.
- muschem
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Jan 17, 2021
[quote="andym"]Thanks for the additional info. Using the plaques is a brilliant time saver on the woodworking.[/quote]
I'm glad it is helpful.
Some additional info and parts references:
Plaques:
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013IU9VW6]Plymor Solid Walnut Rectangular Wood Display Base with Ogee Edge
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013IU8HCG]Plymor Solid Walnut Round Wood Display Base with Ogee Edge
For the plaques, I used solid walnut. The back plate is 10" x 5", while the bell support plaque is round, with 4.75" diameter. You could probably save some here by using stained/painted pine or poplar instead.
The brass fittings:
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074DWG5R4]Brass 90 Degree Elbow 1/2" NPT Female x 1/2" NPT Female
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018IWI18O]Brass Floor Flange, 1/2"
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089XTJKCT]Brass 1/2" FIP Flange
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QZPPX44]Brass Screw Caps, 18mm
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074ZZJBKQ]Brass screws, #8 x 3/4"
I miscalculated the size of the decorative top flange, and it doesn't fully cover the base flange, so some of the attaching screws still show. If you can find a brass flange with full coverage, the material used on the base flange and screws is probably less important (i.e. it may not need to be brass in order to look consistent).
Rubber pieces:
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004670XF0]Rubber leg tip
[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YBDY1WT]Small sink plunger
Pipe:
The pipe is just standard 1/2" black iron pipe. The horizontal section extending from the wall is 8", while the section extending over to the right of center is 6". You could probably get away with 6" on both legs of the L, but you'd have less clearance from the wall for the slide if you reduced the 8" to 6". I also used 8" for the vertical section, as that's what I had handy. I think if I did it again, I'd probably choose a slightly longer piece for the vertical, like 10"-12". A 7/8" drill bit (I used a Forstner bit) makes the right size hole through the bell support plaque. It is difficult to see in the pictures, but I used a[url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HPQKHZ1]cable clamp to space the bell support plaque up from the elbow a bit. This works well, and with a longer vertical pipe, you could adjust the height of the support plaque up using this method. I cleaned up the pipe surface a bit and painted a gloss black. I painted after assembly, which covers the messy solder job on the joints, but the downside is needing to tape off all the parts that don't need to be black.
[quote="andym"]I’d have to learn how to solder joints. I might also consider using the engine grade thread locking compound. That stuff is essentially a permanent bond.[/quote]
Soldering was probably not the best method for stabilizing this, in retrospect. It is just what occurred to me to do at the time. I like your idea of the thread locking compound. I'd love to hear how that goes if you give it a try. It sounds much easier than soldering.
I'm glad it is helpful.
Some additional info and parts references:
Plaques:
For the plaques, I used solid walnut. The back plate is 10" x 5", while the bell support plaque is round, with 4.75" diameter. You could probably save some here by using stained/painted pine or poplar instead.
The brass fittings:
I miscalculated the size of the decorative top flange, and it doesn't fully cover the base flange, so some of the attaching screws still show. If you can find a brass flange with full coverage, the material used on the base flange and screws is probably less important (i.e. it may not need to be brass in order to look consistent).
Rubber pieces:
Pipe:
The pipe is just standard 1/2" black iron pipe. The horizontal section extending from the wall is 8", while the section extending over to the right of center is 6". You could probably get away with 6" on both legs of the L, but you'd have less clearance from the wall for the slide if you reduced the 8" to 6". I also used 8" for the vertical section, as that's what I had handy. I think if I did it again, I'd probably choose a slightly longer piece for the vertical, like 10"-12". A 7/8" drill bit (I used a Forstner bit) makes the right size hole through the bell support plaque. It is difficult to see in the pictures, but I used a
[quote="andym"]I’d have to learn how to solder joints. I might also consider using the engine grade thread locking compound. That stuff is essentially a permanent bond.[/quote]
Soldering was probably not the best method for stabilizing this, in retrospect. It is just what occurred to me to do at the time. I like your idea of the thread locking compound. I'd love to hear how that goes if you give it a try. It sounds much easier than soldering.