Gerry Pagano gone independent?
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
St Louis Symphony posted some photos yesterday which seem to show GP playing an independent valve bass [url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.facebook.com/stltrombones/p ... 9295635638">https://www.facebook.com/stltrombones/photos/pcb.4444187655635802/4444189295635638</LINK_TEXT>
Bit surprising given that he was well known as an advocate of the dependent setup. Anyone know if there are any other holdouts in the professional world still using stacked rotors?
Bit surprising given that he was well known as an advocate of the dependent setup. Anyone know if there are any other holdouts in the professional world still using stacked rotors?
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
Seems like dependent bass trombones are very common in the (La) Studio and Jazz scene.
Bill Reichenbach, Alan Kaplan, formerly Phil Teele, others.
Also especially in the UK orchestras you see quite a few dependent basses from my knowledge.
If I would buy a new bass I would potentially have a preference in that direction...
Bill Reichenbach, Alan Kaplan, formerly Phil Teele, others.
Also especially in the UK orchestras you see quite a few dependent basses from my knowledge.
If I would buy a new bass I would potentially have a preference in that direction...
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Sort of like Joe not playing his Griego mouthpiece on the Rouse concerto when we saw him a few years ago.
You pose for a pic and use it when it makes sense, maybe, but you don't really get rid of your gear you love. Pretty sure Pagano will be keeping his 502d, though all his social media for the last year shows him with various new looking indie basses.
Looks like he ditched the harmonic brace too! Have a change, it's fine.
You pose for a pic and use it when it makes sense, maybe, but you don't really get rid of your gear you love. Pretty sure Pagano will be keeping his 502d, though all his social media for the last year shows him with various new looking indie basses.
Looks like he ditched the harmonic brace too! Have a change, it's fine.
- mahlertwo
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Apr 03, 2019
I thought I saw a video where he talked about moving over to an indie bass because one of the new Edwards valves finally felt to him like he wasn't losing tone quality from having inline valves as opposed to dependent. I could be misremembering.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="elmsandr"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="162339" time="1636663122" user_id="3131">
Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
</QUOTE>
Of course, but the proof is in the pudding... The dependents are gone, the indies are in.
Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
</QUOTE>
Of course, but the proof is in the pudding... The dependents are gone, the indies are in.
- mahlertwo
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Apr 03, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="elmsandr" post_id="162364" time="1636680701" user_id="147">
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Of course, but the proof is in the pudding... The dependents are gone, the indies are in.
</QUOTE>
I mean, it makes sense. If dependent sales are dropping, there won't be a lot of time and money put into developing and improving those horns as opposed to indies.
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Of course, but the proof is in the pudding... The dependents are gone, the indies are in.
</QUOTE>
I mean, it makes sense. If dependent sales are dropping, there won't be a lot of time and money put into developing and improving those horns as opposed to indies.
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="elmsandr"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="162339" time="1636663122" user_id="3131">
Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
</QUOTE>
Well if your horn dies and the manufacturer is no longer making anything in the old spec, there may not be much choice in switching.
[quote="mahlertwo"]I thought I saw a video where he talked about moving over to an indie bass because one of the new Edwards valves finally felt to him like he wasn't losing tone quality from having inline valves as opposed to dependent. I could be misremembering.[/quote]
I'd be very interested if you can find it again! Obviously independent valves are technically superior as long as the response doesn't suffer, but aren't the Edwards using fairly standard modern rotors? To stick to dependents for superior tone quality all through the emergence of Thayers and other specialty valves and then to decide that independent standard rotors are fine after all is interesting.
Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy
</QUOTE>
Well if your horn dies and the manufacturer is no longer making anything in the old spec, there may not be much choice in switching.
[quote="mahlertwo"]I thought I saw a video where he talked about moving over to an indie bass because one of the new Edwards valves finally felt to him like he wasn't losing tone quality from having inline valves as opposed to dependent. I could be misremembering.[/quote]
I'd be very interested if you can find it again! Obviously independent valves are technically superior as long as the response doesn't suffer, but aren't the Edwards using fairly standard modern rotors? To stick to dependents for superior tone quality all through the emergence of Thayers and other specialty valves and then to decide that independent standard rotors are fine after all is interesting.
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK, as well as Randy Campora. I'm pretty sure part of the reason was just that the manufacturers don't want to devote resources to the small sales of dependent horns, so they may as well get their artists on indies.[/quote]
While Dave owns independent valves, he absolutely still plays dependent as well.
While Dave owns independent valves, he absolutely still plays dependent as well.
- mahlertwo
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Apr 03, 2019
[quote="spencercarran"]<QUOTE author="elmsandr" post_id="162364" time="1636680701" user_id="147">
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Well if your horn dies and the manufacturer is no longer making anything in the old spec, there may not be much choice in switching.
[quote="mahlertwo"]I thought I saw a video where he talked about moving over to an indie bass because one of the new Edwards valves finally felt to him like he wasn't losing tone quality from having inline valves as opposed to dependent. I could be misremembering.[/quote]
I'd be very interested if you can find it again! Obviously independent valves are technically superior as long as the response doesn't suffer, but aren't the Edwards using fairly standard modern rotors? To stick to dependents for superior tone quality all through the emergence of Thayers and other specialty valves and then to decide that independent standard rotors are fine after all is interesting.
</QUOTE>
If my memory is correct (which is no guarantee, it might not have been Gerry), it was the same design Artist Rotor they're using in the 396.
Now, I have never sat and talked horns and shop with these guys, but from the conversations I have been present for… I cannot image any of these guys caring at all what resources Getzen and Edwards put or do not put to working on an independent versus a dependent. I can imagine them being interested if presented with a horn that does something they want to do better and giving it a try…. But if it didn’t do something better I have a hard time believing they would care at all. It isn’t like there is a lot of money in these endorsements.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Well if your horn dies and the manufacturer is no longer making anything in the old spec, there may not be much choice in switching.
[quote="mahlertwo"]I thought I saw a video where he talked about moving over to an indie bass because one of the new Edwards valves finally felt to him like he wasn't losing tone quality from having inline valves as opposed to dependent. I could be misremembering.[/quote]
I'd be very interested if you can find it again! Obviously independent valves are technically superior as long as the response doesn't suffer, but aren't the Edwards using fairly standard modern rotors? To stick to dependents for superior tone quality all through the emergence of Thayers and other specialty valves and then to decide that independent standard rotors are fine after all is interesting.
</QUOTE>
If my memory is correct (which is no guarantee, it might not have been Gerry), it was the same design Artist Rotor they're using in the 396.
- BigBadandBass
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Feb 13, 2020
[quote="Burgerbob"]Dave Taylor has also switched AFAIK[/quote]
I had a studio class with Dave 4 weeks ago. He played a dependent setup then, but mentioned he’s got a double digit collection of bass trombones. He also just picked up a carbon fiber bell and slide…..
I had a studio class with Dave 4 weeks ago. He played a dependent setup then, but mentioned he’s got a double digit collection of bass trombones. He also just picked up a carbon fiber bell and slide…..
- mahlertwo
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Apr 03, 2019
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- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Edwards says he's on the 502-I-R
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Gerry Pagano is one of the (several) great personalities in the trombone world! :cool:
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
There will always be a place for dependent horns, and there will always be players who prefer them.
One primary difference between independent and dependent horns is the neckpipe. Independent horns tend to have very short neckpipes, while dependents have longer ones. This greatly affects the sound and feel. Whether that’s a positive or negative things depends mostly on the player…
One primary difference between independent and dependent horns is the neckpipe. Independent horns tend to have very short neckpipes, while dependents have longer ones. This greatly affects the sound and feel. Whether that’s a positive or negative things depends mostly on the player…
- amoss1s
- Posts: 50
- Joined: May 22, 2018
Gerry told me in my lessons with him that he liked the resonance of a dependent set up. He even had a bass bone without a removable lead pipe. He was onto something because he had one of the most resonant sounds I’ve ever heard. He’s a kind of player you have to hear in person!