The La Rosa topic

blast · by **blast** » 2018-09-16 6:09 p.m.

This is becoming ugly.... and ugly in an old TTF political way.

I am off to bed.... UK. ....

Please shut it if it continues to deteriorate.

Chris

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-09-16 7:39 p.m.

Yeah that went down hill REALLY fast after you went to sleep. I went ahead and locked it. What think everyone else? My thoughts are we could let it continue in ways that are actually productive. E.g. my suggestion that maybe as teachers (and perhaps as students though I hate putting the onus on victims) we should get into the habit of recording all the interactions we have with students. That's something that can actually be done about the situation that woudl at least, say, not be a negative.

mrpillow · by **mrpillow** » 2018-09-16 7:49 p.m.

I do regret that it went down before I could share my 5 cents, but I see no reason to re-opening it. If we want a topic on dealing with the environment of sexual assault as teachers/students perhaps that should be a separate topic, though I don't see it lasting long either.

Maybe instead of locking topics that get out of hand we could dole out individual punishments for not keeping things in control? If every topic that turns into an argument just gets locked and goes away, people don't really have any reason to behave better the next time around.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-09-16 8:08 p.m.

It becomes difficult who to blame for a topic going off the rails like the LaRosa topic. Lockdown and wait is probably best.

It's similar to the James Levine topic. There are those who will defend him to the death based on either a need to brown-nose or respect for his stature. And there are others who want to go at him with pitchforks and torches on just a hint of malfeasance. Both are wrong. The allegations need to be investigated to draw proper conclusions.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-09-16 8:30 p.m.

I tend to agree that things might continue to get out of control if we don't 'punish' individuals though I also agree with Bruce that I didn't see any one singular thing being in the wrong per se, at least in that thread. It just got way more heated than it should given that literally everyone agreed that sexual assault is bad. Like nobody was saying, "Yeah I mean but they probably were asking for it" or any such nonsense. --- That actually would be against the TOS. Actually, I should revisit the TOS maybe I did put something in there that would be relevant.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-09-16 8:37 p.m.

Promotion or perpetuation of negative racial, ethnic, sexual, religious, or cultural stereotypes are not allowed, as determined by the moderation team. Posts may be edited or deleted without notice. In addition, any post may be removed or edited by members of the moderation team for any reason, including for any reason not yet covered in this section or for no reason whatsoever.

Yeah the closest I wrote was this. So technically someone saying something like 'women asked for it' would fall under that umbrella (negative stereotype) and we'd at least give them a warning. We might want to consider making that a little more clear or adding another section but I really don't think we'd ever have to exercise it because it seems like everyone is largely on the same page just perhaps with different degrees of what "we" should do about it.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-09-16 9:13 p.m.

The discussion was getting farther away from LaRosa and more into the general topic, which I think was a good thing, and I would not have closed it. I don't think anybody was crossing the TOU line.

I'm just really surprised nobody brought up the Catholic Church where it was only sort of a secret, or Olympic doctor Larry Nassar with 300 accusers and many people aware of the complaints who did nothing. Both excellent examples of decades-long ignoring of totally valid complaints because of no actual witnesses.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-09-16 9:44 p.m.

Seems like its really easy to get into the weeds and not bring up more concrete examples, which is odd to me as there are so many that would really bolster that argument. At least more than faceless statistics; those stories all have a tangible victim.

blast · by **blast** » 2018-09-17 2:53 a.m.

Well, I think it was right to lock it, as I understand it is discussing live legal action. That would not be safe on a public forum in the UK and this forum is worldwide. Interesting how little trust some people have in the American legal system. We have our problems in the UK for sure but our law is above politics at least. I know both people who have behaved badly and gotten away with it and people who have had teaching careers ruined by allegations that were eventually proved to be false. This is a minefield.

Chris

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-10-24 9:18 p.m.

I've received an indication that someone wanted the La Rosa topic opened up again --- thoughts? This is with regards to his recent firing. I don't mind it now that its, more or less, resolved. Though I'd prefer it to be productive and I have my doubts if that's possible given how contentious it is (which may not be a bad thing, and at least its pertinent to the field one way or another unlike other potentially divisive issues.)

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-10-24 10:03 p.m.

I'm having flashbacks to the Rossolino topic on TTF, where some members got so worked up over his suicide that they wouldn't consider his musicianship.

I don't think there is any reason to reopen it unless there is some kind of positive development (new job, etc.).

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2018-10-25 10:41 a.m.

Maybe they can start a new topic if they really like. Doesn't matter to me too much either way.

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