Lassalle TrombOlympic exercise
- Claudio
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Dec 03, 2021
Hi everybody.
I'm studying with Lassalle TrombOlympic method and I've found a difficult exercise, N.10 Pag.49, attached herebelow. Some suggestion in order to achieve a better (and smooth) passage between each note ?
I'm also wandering which metronome speed should be acceptable.
Thank you.
I'm studying with Lassalle TrombOlympic method and I've found a difficult exercise, N.10 Pag.49, attached herebelow. Some suggestion in order to achieve a better (and smooth) passage between each note ?
I'm also wandering which metronome speed should be acceptable.
Thank you.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Clearly he's going from detache to slurred. An implied variant is with no slurs and you should be able to do this before starting to slur the notes.
Also, start slow and find your best way to achieve the partials before trying to do it at "tempo di tear-ass". This should be easier without the slurs.
Also, start slow and find your best way to achieve the partials before trying to do it at "tempo di tear-ass". This should be easier without the slurs.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
There are many ways to do this. Natural slurs would be my inclination. Slur-two-tongue-two is good, as is notated for a few lines.
For speed, use what you can play without making mistakes, and speed up next time through. Try to memorize it and think chords.
For speed, use what you can play without making mistakes, and speed up next time through. Try to memorize it and think chords.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
That surely looks like something you take as slow as you need to to play accurately and then advance the speed from there.
How about quarter = 60 to start?
If you are having trouble with a pattern like this at a tempo, you can build it up in fragments.
First play it like A, in tempo. When you have that under control, add a note, as in B.
When that is working... play it as in C.
<ATTACHMENT filename="build.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]build.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
You could also play the whole pattern, but just on beat 1 in each measure
Then beat 1 and 3...
Then beat 1 2 and 3...
Finally, the complete measure.
There are lots of other way break these things into pieces and build them back up.
How about quarter = 60 to start?
If you are having trouble with a pattern like this at a tempo, you can build it up in fragments.
First play it like A, in tempo. When you have that under control, add a note, as in B.
When that is working... play it as in C.
<ATTACHMENT filename="build.jpg" index="0">
You could also play the whole pattern, but just on beat 1 in each measure
Then beat 1 and 3...
Then beat 1 2 and 3...
Finally, the complete measure.
There are lots of other way break these things into pieces and build them back up.
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
Drive your partial changes with your tongue.
Take just one of these arpeggios working well in slur only, then find how to tongue in such a way as to allow the underlying slur driven by tongue to operate without disturbance.
Alternating repeats, slur then tongue, is the best way I know to test for disturbance, as previously described somewhere in another topic.
Take just one of these arpeggios working well in slur only, then find how to tongue in such a way as to allow the underlying slur driven by tongue to operate without disturbance.
Alternating repeats, slur then tongue, is the best way I know to test for disturbance, as previously described somewhere in another topic.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="Claudio"]Hi everybody.
I'm studying with Lassalle TrombOlympic method and I've found a difficult exercise, N.10 Pag.49, attached herebelow. Some suggestion in order to achieve a better (and smooth) passage between each note ?
I'm also wandering which metronome speed should be acceptable.
Thank you.[/quote]
From my experience working with him and former students of his, the acceptable metronome speed for his exercises usually is as fast as possible. Meaning yes, build the tempo up and don't try to play too fast but constantly try to get it faster.
Some commenters before might not have understood the French directions. You should practice this exercise as written, all detached, as well as using each of the 6 articulation patterns he provides.
[quote="baileyman"]Drive your partial changes with your tongue.
Take just one of these arpeggios working well in slur only, then find how to tongue in such a way as to allow the underlying slur driven by tongue to operate without disturbance.
Alternating repeats, slur then tongue, is the best way I know to test for disturbance, as previously described somewhere in another topic.[/quote]
That would be my approach as well.
I'm studying with Lassalle TrombOlympic method and I've found a difficult exercise, N.10 Pag.49, attached herebelow. Some suggestion in order to achieve a better (and smooth) passage between each note ?
I'm also wandering which metronome speed should be acceptable.
Thank you.[/quote]
From my experience working with him and former students of his, the acceptable metronome speed for his exercises usually is as fast as possible. Meaning yes, build the tempo up and don't try to play too fast but constantly try to get it faster.
Some commenters before might not have understood the French directions. You should practice this exercise as written, all detached, as well as using each of the 6 articulation patterns he provides.
[quote="baileyman"]Drive your partial changes with your tongue.
Take just one of these arpeggios working well in slur only, then find how to tongue in such a way as to allow the underlying slur driven by tongue to operate without disturbance.
Alternating repeats, slur then tongue, is the best way I know to test for disturbance, as previously described somewhere in another topic.[/quote]
That would be my approach as well.
- VJOFan
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Apr 06, 2018
There are so many things that could be an issue with these harmonic patterns.
So the practice shouldn't be about how to get it better. Practice to find out what the hitch is/hitches are.
When you understand what is not working well you can focus on fixing that.
It will come down to some sort of coordination (articulation, mouth shape, air speed/intensity, lip/horn angle) issue that makes movement from one note to another unclean. Until you figure out what is stopping you from moving through the exercise as well as you would like, any practice tactic will just be throwing darts.
So the practice shouldn't be about how to get it better. Practice to find out what the hitch is/hitches are.
When you understand what is not working well you can focus on fixing that.
It will come down to some sort of coordination (articulation, mouth shape, air speed/intensity, lip/horn angle) issue that makes movement from one note to another unclean. Until you figure out what is stopping you from moving through the exercise as well as you would like, any practice tactic will just be throwing darts.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Your tongue will be shaped differently for each partial, and does nearly the all the work of moving between each. The rest is air.
- Claudio
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Dec 03, 2021
[quote="VJOFan"]...When you understand what is not working well you can focus on fixing that. ...[/quote]
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way. If I try to modify the exercise adding back partials, i.e. Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb2.F1.Bb1... instead of the original Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.... is easier (of course <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span> )
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way. If I try to modify the exercise adding back partials, i.e. Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb2.F1.Bb1... instead of the original Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.... is easier (of course <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span> )
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="Claudio"]
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way...[/quote]
curiosity... there must be some tempo at which you can do that... what would it be?
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way...[/quote]
curiosity... there must be some tempo at which you can do that... what would it be?
- Claudio
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Dec 03, 2021
[quote="robcat2075"]curiosity... there must be some tempo at which you can do that... what would it be?[/quote]
I'm getting better, 72bpm now is acceptable - the problem now is to shorten the space for breathe between groups of 16 sixteenths
I'm getting better, 72bpm now is acceptable - the problem now is to shorten the space for breathe between groups of 16 sixteenths
- VJOFan
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Apr 06, 2018
[quote="Claudio"]<QUOTE author="VJOFan" post_id="166611" time="1640624680" user_id="2988">
...When you understand what is not working well you can focus on fixing that. ...[/quote]
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way. If I try to modify the exercise adding back partials, i.e. Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb2.F1.Bb1... instead of the original Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.... is easier (of course <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span> )
</QUOTE>
I think that is pretty normal. It is hard to open up and slow things down without going overboard and losing the stream altogether. As someone who does buzz, that is where I might do a little exploration of mouthpiece glissandi from the high note to the low note to get a rough feeling of the difference between them and to learn the transition in slow motion. Then it would be back to the horn isolating that leap. after that it is about adding in more of the surrounding phrases.
Alternatively, it also sometimes works to just think of the low tone as the one to attack. Lay into it and let the rest of the notes flow out of that.
...When you understand what is not working well you can focus on fixing that. ...[/quote]
Actually the worst is going back from the highest partial to the lowest, an 11^ back jump - this is very difficult to manage in a smooth way. If I try to modify the exercise adding back partials, i.e. Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb2.F1.Bb1... instead of the original Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.Bb1.F1.Bb2.D2.... is easier (of course <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span> )
</QUOTE>
I think that is pretty normal. It is hard to open up and slow things down without going overboard and losing the stream altogether. As someone who does buzz, that is where I might do a little exploration of mouthpiece glissandi from the high note to the low note to get a rough feeling of the difference between them and to learn the transition in slow motion. Then it would be back to the horn isolating that leap. after that it is about adding in more of the surrounding phrases.
Alternatively, it also sometimes works to just think of the low tone as the one to attack. Lay into it and let the rest of the notes flow out of that.