Budget jazz horn

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 11:33 a.m.

What would be a good Jazz trombone used for around 500 bucks? Looks don't really matter just the slide action and sound.

BurckhardtS · by **BurckhardtS** » 2021-12-29 11:37 a.m.

YSL 354 - I use one at the professional level, they are incredibly consistent and they can usually be found for $150-200 and the cost of getting it cleaned/slide aligned at a tech

hyperbolica · 2021-12-29 11:39 a.m.

Wessex Urbie Green 4501. Really nice horn, cheap. You might get an Olds Super super cheap. And Olds Recordings have a ton of personality, very underrated.

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 11:52 a.m.

Wessex stuff isn't really in the states I don't think

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 11:53 a.m.

I'll try to find one cheap, but there are just so many options.

noordinaryjoe · by **noordinaryjoe** » 2021-12-29 12:08 p.m.

For my money the vintage Yamahas are big bang for the buck..YSL-651, YSL-653...

This one is a bit more than your budget, (there is a make an offer option) but it looks really clean and probably won't need a slide tune up:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/203595543769?h ... OSwqK1hNOk">https://www.ebay.com/itm/203595543769?hash=item2f673d74d9:g:XukAAOSwqK1hNOk</LINK_TEXT>~

Less pretty ones can be found within your budget with a bit of searching.

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 12:26 p.m.

That sure is a looker!

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2021-12-29 12:30 p.m.

[quote="TheFilthOfFrank"]Wessex stuff isn't really in the states I don't think[/quote]

Wessex show room in Chicago: https://us.wessex-tubas.com/pages/chicago-showroom

And they ship almost anywhere.

And the PB4501 is in stock: <LINK_TEXT text="https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collections ... ier-pb4501">https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collections/trombones-and-sackbut/products/bb-tenor-trombone-0-500-premier-pb4501</LINK_TEXT>

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 12:38 p.m.

I stand corrected! Thanks

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-12-29 2:04 p.m.

You should be able to find a big pile of suitable instruments at your price point.

Look for a Martin Imperial or Martin Committee. Committee was a pro horn of the late 1940s.

Holton Stratodyne (67) or 69

Olds Radio, Recording, Super, Standard. You might even be able to get away with an Ambassador.

Reynolds Argenta

Conn 4H, 24H (and lots of others)

Besson 10-10 (although I found a 2-20 works pretty good as well).

And you might be able to find a King 2B at your price point.

I assume by "jazz horn" you just mean something smaller bore than the typical 0.547" bore that seems to be the school standard these days.

Fact is, any horn you play jazz on is a "jazz horn". For a while I used a King 4B to play dixieland jazz. Later I found a Martin Imperial and switched to that.

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 2:44 p.m.

I was meaning a smaller bore straight horn such as the ones you described. I was looking for that different sound profile since I already have a symphonic tenor.

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 2:46 p.m.

I assume the Ambassador is the "Higher" class in olds lineup from back in the day?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-12-29 2:55 p.m.

[quote="TheFilthOfFrank"]I assume the Ambassador is the "Higher" class in olds lineup from back in the day?[/quote]

Ambassador was sold as the Student model, although it was made on the same equipment and using the same tools as the higher level instruments. If it hasn't been too bashed, an Ambassador can be good; though the other lines are better.

TheFilthOfFrank · by **TheFilthOfFrank** » 2021-12-29 4:11 p.m.

Oh, so I had It backward.

Jpechroer · by **Jpechroer** » 2021-12-29 6:21 p.m.

I’ve got a 6h that’s a great playing horn, not the prettiest girl at the dance but she’ll swing

John · by **John** » 2022-08-02 5:01 p.m.

[quote="TheFilthOfFrank"]What would be a good Jazz trombone used for around 500 bucks? Looks don't really matter just the slide action and sound.[/quote]

any conn director except 50h

OneTon · by **OneTon** » 2022-08-02 7:09 p.m.

To get a good slide you might need to consider paying $665 to $675. Dillon’s has some 0.485 bore Conn 4H trombones. Brass exchange has an Olds Studio that runs 0.500 and a Reynolds at 0.500 bore. His Bach Mercury might work for you at $500. My outdoor horn is a Olds Super that I paid DJ Kennedy under $400 for a long time ago. It does surprisingly well. Those are all professional horns except for the Mercury which causes some arguments.

OneTon · by **OneTon** » 2022-08-03 10:49 p.m.

The Bach Loyalist site gives a Bach catalog description of what Mercury is. The one at Brass Exchange might be what you’re looking for.

modelerdc · by **modelerdc** » 2022-08-03 10:58 p.m.

One more vote for the Yamaha 354, easy to find under 500, just get one with a good slide, they play well. Also consider Conn 77H and the student line king.

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2022-08-03 11:16 p.m.

The Yamaha 200 is a sister horn to the 354. Same quality of material and execution. Whatever Yamaha builds, they build right.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2022-08-04 3:14 p.m.

If you are patient, check on shopgoodwill.com. You can get a student horn like one of the Yamahas for under $100 and if you wait long enough, a pro horn might pop when somebody doesn't know what they have. I got a 6H for $100 on there once, but then spent $500 fixing it up.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2022-08-04 3:33 p.m.

[quote="TheFilthOfFrank"]I assume the Ambassador is the "Higher" class in olds lineup from back in the day?[/quote]
As Bruce said, it's the student model. The Special was the intermediate model, and they are very good horns. You could easily get one for under $500. The Super, the Studio and the Recording were pro models so probably would cost a bit more.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-08-04 7:03 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]As Bruce said, [the Ambassador was] the student model. The Special was the intermediate model, and they are very good horns. You could easily get one for under $500. The Super, the Studio and the Recording were pro models so probably would cost a bit more.[/quote]

:good:

ParLawGod · by **ParLawGod** » 2022-08-05 12:17 p.m.

The JP Rath 230 deserves more attention IMO. It can sing! 7.5" bell with .500 bore.

CharlieB · 2022-08-05 1:38 p.m.

There is a trombonist/dealer named D.J. Kennedy, who is a member here but hasn't posted on this forum in quite awhile. He has a great (if somewhat eccentric) reputation for finding good affordable used trombones.

Many of the horns are at his home in Chester, Illinois, and others are located elsewhere. Maybe he knows of one near you. if you want to talk with D.J., here's a link to an old Chat post that gives contact info for him.

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6743

tjonz · by **tjonz** » 2022-08-05 6:38 p.m.

CharlieB writes:

> There is a used trombonist/dealer named D.J. Kennedy

DJ may be slightly used but he's still in good working order.

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2022-08-05 10:07 p.m.

[quote="tjonz"]CharlieB writes:

> There is a used trombonist/dealer named D.J. Kennedy

DJ may be slightly used but he's still in good working order.[/quote]

Oops.

Fixed it.

Thanks.

adrielo19 · by **adrielo19** » 2022-08-07 6:50 a.m.

I recommend a vintage Yamaha YSL-354. Solid horn.

Geordie · by **Geordie** » 2022-08-07 7:35 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="185262" time="1659641639" user_id="4102">
As Bruce said, [the Ambassador was] the student model. The Special was the intermediate model, and they are very good horns. You could easily get one for under $500. The Super, the Studio and the Recording were pro models so probably would cost a bit more.[/quote]

:good:
</QUOTE>

I own both a Special and a Recording, using them in jazz, blues, samba type settings. Both will do the job well and are lower priced, Special is a little lighter. Both are nose heavy. Authentic counterweights are not common but anything that fits and weighs 8 ounces will do the job, I had both mine retrofitted.

Trav1s · by **Trav1s** » 2022-08-07 12:58 p.m.

I'll also suggest the 24H - I have a 30's era horn that is so much fun to play. It can sound sweet and mellow or will bark loud and clear if needed. It has quickly become one of my favorites along side my 79H.

patrickb · by **patrickb** » 2022-08-08 12:43 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="TheFilthOfFrank" post_id="166819" time="1640807171" user_id="14483">
I assume the Ambassador is the "Higher" class in olds lineup from back in the day?[/quote]
As Bruce said, it's the student model. The Special was the intermediate model, and they are very good horns. You could easily get one for under $500. The Super, the Studio and the Recording were pro models so probably would cost a bit more.
</QUOTE>

I've been looking for something similar to get back into playing after having played in high school long ago - a bit nicer than a p-bone or the old conn student horn my son started on but not expensive. Read this and then ran across 1975 Olds Special at a local thrift store yesterday for $50 whose slide is prety good but needs some dents pulled out of the bell.

Thanks for the info!

Aznguyy · by **Aznguyy** » 2022-08-08 2:54 p.m.

King Cleveland 605. Poor man's King 2B. You can get them around $200

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2022-08-08 3:49 p.m.

[quote="patrickb"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="185262" time="1659641639" user_id="4102">

As Bruce said, it's the student model. The Special was the intermediate model, and they are very good horns. You could easily get one for under $500. The Super, the Studio and the Recording were pro models so probably would cost a bit more.[/quote]

I've been looking for something similar to get back into playing after having played in high school long ago - a bit nicer than a p-bone or the old conn student horn my son started on but not expensive. Read this and then ran across 1975 Olds Special at a local thrift store yesterday for $50 whose slide is prety good but needs some dents pulled out of the bell.

Thanks for the info!
</QUOTE>
That's a great price. Does it have the 2-tone bell?

patrickb · by **patrickb** » 2022-08-08 3:56 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="patrickb" post_id="185601" time="1659977035" user_id="15571">

I've been looking for something similar to get back into playing after having played in high school long ago - a bit nicer than a p-bone or the old conn student horn my son started on but not expensive. Read this and then ran across 1975 Olds Special at a local thrift store yesterday for $50 whose slide is prety good but needs some dents pulled out of the bell.

Thanks for the info![/quote]
That's a great price. Does it have the 2-tone bell?
</QUOTE>

No, it's straight nickel silver. I expect it'll take a bit of $$ to true up and get the larger dents of bell, and it'll need a new case, but even if it costs $250-300 total to get everything together, it's still a good place to restart for a pretty minimal investment. I'll post some pictures when it gets back from the shop. )

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-08-08 5:27 p.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="patrickb" post_id="185601" time="1659977035" user_id="15571">
... 1975 Olds Special at a local thrift store yesterday for $50 whose slide is prety good but needs some dents pulled out of the bell.[/quote]
That's a great price. Does it have the 2-tone bell?
</QUOTE>

I think it the Olds Studio that had the two-tone bell.

(yellow/gold brass neck, nickel-silver flare)

patrickb · 2022-09-03 3:06 p.m.

Followup: Back from the shop. Only $125 to repair dents and fully clean on top of the original $50.

Cotboneman · by **Cotboneman** » 2022-09-13 1:41 a.m.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/download/file. ... w&id=16231">https://trombonechat.com/download/file.php?mode=view&id=16231</LINK_TEXT>

Another vote for a good budget jazz horn, if you can find one, is the Getzen Eterna 1050, in .508 bore and in yellow or rose brass and a fixed lead pipe. It can really sizzle! Getzen I think originally intended it to compete with the 3B, so it was considered a pro horn. That is until they developed the 3508 line, which is a dual bore. That pushed it to the intermediate label, and was it finally discontinued. It's price point of about $1800 back then wouldn't make it competitive with the horns flooding in from Asia now in the intermediate market.

I bought this horn back in about 1998 from Steve Ferguson and used it as my prime small bore for teaching high school jazz ensembles and gigging. Over the years it developed red rot on the outer brass slides, acid bleed from the wire rim, and numerous dents and dings from being knocked around and used as an emergency horn for a bunch of years.

For sentimental reasons I had the horn refurbished; new inner chrome plates slides, nickel silver outer slides, King style single radius crook, press fit lead pipes, new tuning slide crook (the old one had a stress crack). And then I had it scratch brush finished. It'll be an heirloom that I'll pass down to my grandson I'm sure. He's already got his eye on it and he's not even band age yet.

bigbandbone · by **bigbandbone** » 2022-09-13 9:15 a.m.

Conn 20H Conquest. It’s basically a 4H with slightly different bracing and tuning slide. You can usually find them on the cheap.

Pezza · by **Pezza** » 2022-09-13 5:01 p.m.

I picked up a Bach 12 for $900 aussie.

JDHTbone · by **JDHTbone** » 2022-10-03 9:41 p.m.

Doug Elliott told me that he won the audition for The Airmen of Note on a YSL 354. He said the audition came up so quick that was the only horn he could lay his hands on at the time. I don't believe he play it now but I might be wrong.

Markandamber11 · by **Markandamber11** » 2022-10-22 9:30 p.m.

I agree on the Yamaha 354. They are darn near pro horns in my opinion. Easy to play and consistent. For what they offer and what they cost, i don't think you can get a better bang for your buck. I have a silver 356g and love it as well. Just solid horns.

JohnL · 2022-10-22 10:31 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]I think it the Olds Studio that had the two-tone bell. (yellow/gold brass neck, nickel-silver flare)[/quote]
One version of the Special had a nickel bell tail and a red brass (bronze) flare.

http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1970.pdf

Page 5.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-10-23 2:03 a.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="185633" time="1659994041" user_id="158">I think it was the Olds Studio that had the two-tone bell. (yellow/gold brass neck, nickel-silver flare)[/quote]
One version of the Special had a nickel bell tail and a red brass (bronze) flare.
</QUOTE>

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-10-23 10:31 a.m.

[quote="patrickb"]No, it's straight nickel silver.[/quote]
Missed this comment about the Olds Special earlier.

That's nickel plate over brass, not solid nickel silver.

http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1973.pdf

Page 18.

patrickb · by **patrickb** » 2022-10-25 9:13 a.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="patrickb" post_id="185623" time="1659988611" user_id="15571">No, it's straight nickel silver.[/quote]
Missed this comment about the Olds Special earlier.

That's nickel plate over brass, not solid nickel silver.

http://itsabear.com/Olds_Docs/Olds1973.pdf

Page 18.
</QUOTE>

Cool, thanks for the pointer. Still loving it. :)

JRmusic · by **JRmusic** » 2023-03-20 11:53 a.m.

I know this is an old thread, but I read it with interest because just this morning I pulled a YSL 354 out of the closet and played it for my wife alongside my 48H Constellation, ‘54 Olds Super, and 70s Bach Omega. She liked the sound of the Yamaha best. And it does play great. I think I may start using it for combo work- it’s light, and consistent across the whole playing range. I had never given it a real chance, because I thought of it as a student horn.

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