Franken F?
- blap73
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 26, 2021
OK, most likely a dumb idea...
has anyone made a "Franken F" - Tenor with F attachment? For example take a King 606, plus a King 3B F-attachment . . . cut and graft? OK the 3B is .507" bore and a 606 is .500, so that's not ideal. But maybe some other combination. Clearly this would be a relatively small bore horn as I don't see many bargain big bores to do this kind of surgery on.
has anyone made a "Franken F" - Tenor with F attachment? For example take a King 606, plus a King 3B F-attachment . . . cut and graft? OK the 3B is .507" bore and a 606 is .500, so that's not ideal. But maybe some other combination. Clearly this would be a relatively small bore horn as I don't see many bargain big bores to do this kind of surgery on.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
There are lots of smaller bore tenors with F attachment:
The King 605F
Olds Recording with F
Olds Super Star with F
Some of us like to use Medium Bore (0.525") horns with F. Lots of those around
Could you make one? Sure. You can buy a valve section and graft it in. Not a job for the faint of heart, though. You need to have some soldering skills, some tube bending skills, and a lot of patience.
Would be a useful tool for small ensemble musicals where the part goes way below the bass staff, but the ensemble is only 8 musicians so a large bore tenor with F would overpower the rest of the band (not to mention the cast if they are amateurs).
The King 605F
Olds Recording with F
Olds Super Star with F
Some of us like to use Medium Bore (0.525") horns with F. Lots of those around
Could you make one? Sure. You can buy a valve section and graft it in. Not a job for the faint of heart, though. You need to have some soldering skills, some tube bending skills, and a lot of patience.
Would be a useful tool for small ensemble musicals where the part goes way below the bass staff, but the ensemble is only 8 musicians so a large bore tenor with F would overpower the rest of the band (not to mention the cast if they are amateurs).
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Technically, ALL of my trombones are Franken-somethings. I don’t think I owe a single trombone in its original form. I think this is true of many people on TromboneChat.
You mentioned some smaller bore horns. Are you interested in a small bore F-attachment? Have you considered a G-attachment? I know a couple jazz trombonists who use a G-attachment on a small bore horn and do very well with it.
You mentioned some smaller bore horns. Are you interested in a small bore F-attachment? Have you considered a G-attachment? I know a couple jazz trombonists who use a G-attachment on a small bore horn and do very well with it.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
I had an extra neckpipe for an Edwards .508, and I bought a 3B f attachment section from a friend. I have a detachable F attachment section now for my .508 Edwards. It could use some work on the ergonomics - we made it work with minimal expense and "surgery", but it does work. If I used that horn more, and had a need for a valve with it more often, I would get someone th bend some tubing, and change out the thumb valve.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Adding an f-attachment to a small-bore straight tenor isn't something that's done that often. Part of the problem is that there's just not that much room for the tubing; small bore straight tenors tend to be rather "narrow" through the bell section.
A few years back there was someone pitching a couple Olds A-15 Ambassadors that they'd grafted f-attachments onto; it was discussed on a forum (not sure if it was this one or the old one). As I recall, the attachment wrap was rather "unique".
I've seen a few large bore straight tenors that have been converted; that usually works out OK, as compatible parts are readily available.
A few years back there was someone pitching a couple Olds A-15 Ambassadors that they'd grafted f-attachments onto; it was discussed on a forum (not sure if it was this one or the old one). As I recall, the attachment wrap was rather "unique".
I've seen a few large bore straight tenors that have been converted; that usually works out OK, as compatible parts are readily available.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I'd thought about doing it in various methods for years and so I have quite the collection of parts and small bore F attachment trombones I' consider selling if you were interested. King 605F (Full horn), King 3BF (Rotor + tubing only), King 607F (Rotor + tubing only), Yamaha 646 (Rotor + Tubing), probalby other stuff. I was planning on putting a pbone bell on the 605F lol but I haven't gotten around to it... just moved a few months ago and now starting to get settled but I might put it on another neckpipe I have instead.
- blap73
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 26, 2021
[quote="JohnL"]Adding an f-attachment to a small-bore straight tenor isn't something that's done that often. Part of the problem is that there's just not that much room for the tubing; small bore straight tenors tend to be rather "narrow" through the bell section.[/quote]
Good point. I was thinking the F-attachment might need to be mounted at an angle.
Good point. I was thinking the F-attachment might need to be mounted at an angle.
- blap73
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 26, 2021
[quote="BGuttman"]Could you make one? Sure. You can buy a valve section and graft it in. Not a job for the faint of heart, though. You need to have some soldering skills, some tube bending skills, and a lot of patience.[/quote]
I was thinking that there wouldn't be a need for tube bending? Where / what would need bending?
And thanks for the encouragement that the beast could have a useful role other than handy-man amusement!
I was thinking that there wouldn't be a need for tube bending? Where / what would need bending?
And thanks for the encouragement that the beast could have a useful role other than handy-man amusement!
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
Hm. What if you took a Yamaha 350, reversed the rotor action, and sourced longer tuning slides for both main horn and valve section?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="blap73"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="166941" time="1640911558" user_id="53">
Could you make one? Sure. You can buy a valve section and graft it in. Not a job for the faint of heart, though. You need to have some soldering skills, some tube bending skills, and a lot of patience.[/quote]
I was thinking that there wouldn't be a need for tube bending? Where / what would need bending?
And thanks for the encouragement that the beast could have a useful role other than handy-man amusement!
</QUOTE>
If you source only a valve you may need to build the rest of the attachment. Or maybe you need to alter the trasplant attachment tubing to get it to fit.
Could you make one? Sure. You can buy a valve section and graft it in. Not a job for the faint of heart, though. You need to have some soldering skills, some tube bending skills, and a lot of patience.[/quote]
I was thinking that there wouldn't be a need for tube bending? Where / what would need bending?
And thanks for the encouragement that the beast could have a useful role other than handy-man amusement!
</QUOTE>
If you source only a valve you may need to build the rest of the attachment. Or maybe you need to alter the trasplant attachment tubing to get it to fit.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="spencercarran"]Hm. What if you took a Yamaha 350, reversed the rotor action, and sourced longer tuning slides for both main horn and valve section?[/quote]
Reversing the rotor and extending the valve wrap might make a nice C/G horn or similar, but putting a whole tone of extra length into the main tuning slide - where expansion is already underway - would make for some seriously messy tuning. Anyway, it's a normal length bell section, and the valve wrap just replaces the amount by which the slide is short. Reversing the rotor, extending the valve wrap and using a normal length 354 or 356 slide might be a good basis for a Bb/G horn, though.
Anyway, to the OP, save your time and money and just buy one of the cheaper King or Olds models mentioned above. (Or a 3BF.)
Reversing the rotor and extending the valve wrap might make a nice C/G horn or similar, but putting a whole tone of extra length into the main tuning slide - where expansion is already underway - would make for some seriously messy tuning. Anyway, it's a normal length bell section, and the valve wrap just replaces the amount by which the slide is short. Reversing the rotor, extending the valve wrap and using a normal length 354 or 356 slide might be a good basis for a Bb/G horn, though.
Anyway, to the OP, save your time and money and just buy one of the cheaper King or Olds models mentioned above. (Or a 3BF.)
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="spencercarran"]Hm. What if you took a Yamaha 350, reversed the rotor action, and sourced longer tuning slides for both main horn and valve section?[/quote]
You would essentially have a really expensive YSL356 <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
You would essentially have a really expensive YSL356 <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
- spencercarran
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Oct 17, 2020
[quote="Matt K"]<QUOTE author="spencercarran" post_id="166981" time="1640969694" user_id="10390">
Hm. What if you took a Yamaha 350, reversed the rotor action, and sourced longer tuning slides for both main horn and valve section?[/quote]
You would essentially have a really expensive YSL356 <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
</QUOTE>
But one with a valve!
Hm. What if you took a Yamaha 350, reversed the rotor action, and sourced longer tuning slides for both main horn and valve section?[/quote]
You would essentially have a really expensive YSL356 <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
</QUOTE>
But one with a valve!