Harmon Mutes for bass no more?
- vetsurginc
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Jun 29, 2019
Playing in community bands I see notations for Harmon mutes infrequently for trombones, especially bass bones. Most times no mute is used, or at most a straight mute.
Is the Harmon becoming a relic of the past, or just a rare bird?
Is the Harmon becoming a relic of the past, or just a rare bird?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Was it ever popular? I own a harmon for bass and I have used it a grand total of 3 times in 11, 12 years. Big bands, wind ensembles, orchestras, you name it.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Harmon was a rare bird in most concert band or orchestral literature (I've never seen one specified for bass trombone). Big Bands / Stage Bands / Jazz Bands had some writing for Harmon, but I have to say that Harmon on bass trombone is not a satisfactory solution. Most times a plunger is used for the Wah-wah effect. And a standard toilet plunger is actually a bit small for a bass trombone (I have a 7" diameter one that I found online).
Community Big Bands tend to limit mute use to straight, cup, and plunger. Sometimes they will call for bucket. But most of the ones I've played with tended to try to minimize the number of mute you need to shlep to a gig. I even played with one band where the only mute was a plunger, held different ways to simulate straight, cup, and bucket.
Community Big Bands tend to limit mute use to straight, cup, and plunger. Sometimes they will call for bucket. But most of the ones I've played with tended to try to minimize the number of mute you need to shlep to a gig. I even played with one band where the only mute was a plunger, held different ways to simulate straight, cup, and bucket.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
A plunger held tight against the bell gives a very close approximation of a Harmon sound. Play loud to give it a buzz like a Harmon, you have to really push but it doesn't come out loud.
If you see "Tight Plunger" in a part, that's what it means - or that's my interpretation of it.
Here's Urbie doing that:
https://youtu.be/tPOYIgbpksw?t=1743
If you see "Tight Plunger" in a part, that's what it means - or that's my interpretation of it.
Here's Urbie doing that:
https://youtu.be/tPOYIgbpksw?t=1743
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
To the OP... LOL.
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it. If I'm getting paid? Maybe. But it better be decent pay or I'm just going to make it up. AND I ALREADY OWN THE MUTES.
They are a pain and not fun to use. The sound isn't that unique that it is worth it to me.
Cheers,
Andy
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it. If I'm getting paid? Maybe. But it better be decent pay or I'm just going to make it up. AND I ALREADY OWN THE MUTES.
They are a pain and not fun to use. The sound isn't that unique that it is worth it to me.
Cheers,
Andy
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="elmsandr"]To the OP... LOL.
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it. If I'm getting paid? Maybe. But it better be decent pay or I'm just going to make it up. AND I ALREADY OWN THE MUTES.
They are a pain and not fun to use. The sound isn't that unique that it is worth it to me.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Add to that "plunger in the trigger range". I've never found an easy or effective way to do that.
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it. If I'm getting paid? Maybe. But it better be decent pay or I'm just going to make it up. AND I ALREADY OWN THE MUTES.
They are a pain and not fun to use. The sound isn't that unique that it is worth it to me.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Add to that "plunger in the trigger range". I've never found an easy or effective way to do that.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The consensus coincides with my many years of experience - big bands, small bands, concert bands, symphony orchestra, ...
Perhaps only once did I even see Harmon called out.
In my current big bands, most common mutes are;
* Bucket ( we use Softone)
* Cup
* Plunger
* Straight
(Pretty much in that order)
Perhaps only once did I even see Harmon called out.
In my current big bands, most common mutes are;
* Bucket ( we use Softone)
* Cup
* Plunger
* Straight
(Pretty much in that order)
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
If you need a good sounding Harmon for bass, why not try Trapani Mutes?
http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="elmsandr" post_id="168879" time="1642645683" user_id="147">
To the OP... LOL.
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it.[/quote]
Add to that "plunger in the trigger range". I've never found an easy or effective way to do that.
</QUOTE>
I would concur. My Duo-Gravis tenon joint holds unless a cup mute is inserted. The bell plus mute weight by itself gets unwieldy. I won’t bother getting a Harmon for bass.
I’ve had a conductor insist on a cup mute in the trigger range and then laugh when the cup mute fell out and clattered across the floor. I learned a lot about music from him but not much about mutes.
I give them a straight mute, a handheld plunger or cup mute without the trigger, or bury the bell in a black Manhasset stand. The plunger or bell in the music stand covers a lot of sound modification territory. For blended ensemble or exposed duet, the results are good enough. I do carry plungers wiih and without center holes. The reasonable band leadership usually trusts us and works with us.
To the OP... LOL.
If you write anything other than Straight, Cup, or maybe plunger for bass.... I'm not likely doing it.[/quote]
Add to that "plunger in the trigger range". I've never found an easy or effective way to do that.
</QUOTE>
I would concur. My Duo-Gravis tenon joint holds unless a cup mute is inserted. The bell plus mute weight by itself gets unwieldy. I won’t bother getting a Harmon for bass.
I’ve had a conductor insist on a cup mute in the trigger range and then laugh when the cup mute fell out and clattered across the floor. I learned a lot about music from him but not much about mutes.
I give them a straight mute, a handheld plunger or cup mute without the trigger, or bury the bell in a black Manhasset stand. The plunger or bell in the music stand covers a lot of sound modification territory. For blended ensemble or exposed duet, the results are good enough. I do carry plungers wiih and without center holes. The reasonable band leadership usually trusts us and works with us.
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
I used it once this year. They work nice on trumpets, but doesn't have the same effect on bass trombone. Unless you blow ffff
It can work nice in solo stuff, James Markey used it in one of his arr. Wa-wa effect.
Leif
It can work nice in solo stuff, James Markey used it in one of his arr. Wa-wa effect.
Leif
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
As a professional orchestral and chamber music player on bass, I've used a harmon a fair amount. Way more than a bucket. Less than a straight or cup, obviously. If you're a professional player, expect to have to buy one at some point. It may take a while for it to pay for itself, though.... :)
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
I agree with the last post. I'm not a bass trombonist, but I have used harmons on Pops concerts (and Rhapsody in Blue), and some contemporary Classical pieces. We played a piece recently where there was an exposed harmon part in the bass trombone part.
I just received my Trapani harmon a couple of weeks ago. It's a tenor mute, but it plays all the way down to the pedal range, and seems to be pretty well in tune, with or without stem. I had trouble with my old metal mutes not being able to play some low passages in a modern opera part. The Trapani is rather light too, and seems to be durable.
I get why some people say that harmon never gets used in their circles, but I find that the more "exotic" mutes are being required more often, and if you don't have one, it can be difficult to find on short notice.
Jim Scott
I just received my Trapani harmon a couple of weeks ago. It's a tenor mute, but it plays all the way down to the pedal range, and seems to be pretty well in tune, with or without stem. I had trouble with my old metal mutes not being able to play some low passages in a modern opera part. The Trapani is rather light too, and seems to be durable.
I get why some people say that harmon never gets used in their circles, but I find that the more "exotic" mutes are being required more often, and if you don't have one, it can be difficult to find on short notice.
Jim Scott
- bassclef
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]If you need a good sounding Harmon for bass, why not try Trapani Mutes?
http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html[/quote]
Yep. I've been through all of the available options and these are by far the best by every metric one would want to measure: sound, weight and staying put in the bell to name a few.
http://www.trapanimutes.com/available-mutes.html[/quote]
Yep. I've been through all of the available options and these are by far the best by every metric one would want to measure: sound, weight and staying put in the bell to name a few.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I see those are Noah's...
I'll get one, although I can hardly remember the last time I needed a Harmon for anything.
I remember now... it was a recording with Dave Taylor. He likes Harmons.
I'll get one, although I can hardly remember the last time I needed a Harmon for anything.
I remember now... it was a recording with Dave Taylor. He likes Harmons.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
I don't believe that Noah is distributing them anymore. I got ordered mine through him, but by the time it came through the mail, they weren't on his site anymore and it was suggested that I email Trapani directly when the mail service was slow. It ended up coming the very next day so I never spoke to him. I'm sure Noah can put you in touch with him.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- Dennis
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]I don't believe that Noah is distributing them anymore. I got ordered mine through him, but by the time it came through the mail, they weren't on his site anymore and it was suggested that I email Trapani directly when the mail service was slow. It ended up coming the very next day so I never spoke to him. I'm sure Noah can put you in touch with him.
Jim Scott[/quote]
http://trapanimutes.com and <EMAIL email="trapanimutes@gmail.com">trapanimutes@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Steve is really easy to deal with. I needed to order three of them a week or two ago (2 Tenor and 1 Bass) because the MD said, "No, substitutes won't work." and we didn't like the alternatives so we decided to try Steve's mutes.
Verb sap. If you're thinking about ordering purple, the plastic stock he's using is more pink than purple.
Jim Scott[/quote]
http://trapanimutes.com and <EMAIL email="trapanimutes@gmail.com">trapanimutes@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Steve is really easy to deal with. I needed to order three of them a week or two ago (2 Tenor and 1 Bass) because the MD said, "No, substitutes won't work." and we didn't like the alternatives so we decided to try Steve's mutes.
Verb sap. If you're thinking about ordering purple, the plastic stock he's using is more pink than purple.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think bass harmon sounds cool and would gladly use it if it was called for. I used it a ton in undergrad for new orchestra, trombone choir, and trombone quartet pieces. Fortissimo pedal F# with harmon is a very unique sound!
I haven't used mine (a Jo-Ral) a single time since then, but I still have it just in case I want to write for it in a multitrack or something. Eventually I might pick up both Trapanis since neither the bass Jo-Ral or my tenor Harmon E stay in the bell very well.
I haven't used mine (a Jo-Ral) a single time since then, but I still have it just in case I want to write for it in a multitrack or something. Eventually I might pick up both Trapanis since neither the bass Jo-Ral or my tenor Harmon E stay in the bell very well.