Bach Corporation Goldbrass Slide
- dapezar
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Feb 17, 2022
Have you ever seen a Bach Corp. Goldbrass slide?
I've a Bach corp slide made in 1978 (36xxx) which apparently is Goldbrass, but according to some friends, Bach didn't have goldbrass slide in its catalogue from the corporation era.
Do you have any idea if this slide is original Goldbrass??
Thanks a lot
David.
I've a Bach corp slide made in 1978 (36xxx) which apparently is Goldbrass, but according to some friends, Bach didn't have goldbrass slide in its catalogue from the corporation era.
Do you have any idea if this slide is original Goldbrass??
Thanks a lot
David.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I'm not sure about options at the time, but that looks like a normal yellow slide considering the lighting.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
The Bach nitro lacquer darkens quite significantly over time, so it's hard to tell from photos with uncorrected white balance.
If you have the bell section from the same horn, how does it compare to the 'definitely yellow' bits on there (gooseneck, wrap tubing, tuning slide)?
If you have the bell section from the same horn, how does it compare to the 'definitely yellow' bits on there (gooseneck, wrap tubing, tuning slide)?
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
ithinknot makes a very good point. Sometimes the lacquer can darken over time. Another possibility is that the horn was overhauled and they added some tint on the relacquer job. However, the tint usually changes the color of the nickel silver parts, and I do not see that in the photos that you posted.
I have always found that the best way to determine the true color/metal alloy of a brass instrument is to buff a small area of the metal to remove any lacquer or tarnish. I have seen unlacquered bells that I was convinced were gold brass and then I buffed a small area to discover that they were yellow brass.
Another thing to consider is that the bell and slide section might have separate histories. The bell might have been in storage for years while the slide was paired with a totally different bell, or vice versa. Thus, the bell and slide might not have aged or changed tint in the same way.
Of course, it could actually be a gold brass slide that was a special order. Noah Gladstone has offered a few older Bachs that had gold brass outer slides. I think he has a couple of NY Bachs with gold brass outers for sale right now. So many possibilities. Again....if you want the truth, you must expose the raw metal.
I have always found that the best way to determine the true color/metal alloy of a brass instrument is to buff a small area of the metal to remove any lacquer or tarnish. I have seen unlacquered bells that I was convinced were gold brass and then I buffed a small area to discover that they were yellow brass.
Another thing to consider is that the bell and slide section might have separate histories. The bell might have been in storage for years while the slide was paired with a totally different bell, or vice versa. Thus, the bell and slide might not have aged or changed tint in the same way.
Of course, it could actually be a gold brass slide that was a special order. Noah Gladstone has offered a few older Bachs that had gold brass outer slides. I think he has a couple of NY Bachs with gold brass outers for sale right now. So many possibilities. Again....if you want the truth, you must expose the raw metal.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Looks yellow to me too.
Maybe there is some confusion about the nomenclature? If it was paired with a 42G bell, it isn’t u man reasonable ( but incorrect) to assume the whole horn is gold brass rather than just the bell
Maybe there is some confusion about the nomenclature? If it was paired with a 42G bell, it isn’t u man reasonable ( but incorrect) to assume the whole horn is gold brass rather than just the bell
- dapezar
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Feb 17, 2022
[quote="ithinknot"]The Bach nitro lacquer darkens quite significantly over time, so it's hard to tell from photos with uncorrected white balance.
If you have the bell section from the same horn, how does it compare to the 'definitely yellow' bits on there (gooseneck, wrap tubing, tuning slide)?[/quote]
That's the whole set.
Yelllw brass bell and the slide I attached yesterday.
I think the bell and the slide were mixed, but I'm not sure.
If you have the bell section from the same horn, how does it compare to the 'definitely yellow' bits on there (gooseneck, wrap tubing, tuning slide)?[/quote]
That's the whole set.
Yelllw brass bell and the slide I attached yesterday.
I think the bell and the slide were mixed, but I'm not sure.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
A lot of OLDER Bach slides have gold brass tubes (by older I mean NY and Mt V). it is fairly obvious as the tubes are a different color than the crook.
From a horn Noah has for sale:
[url]http://www.brassark.com/sale/ngny36_6.jpg
(note these are not original ferrules here)
Color isn't an inherent property, so we're trying to go through your camera here; but it looks like a standard yellow slide that has some darkened, aged lacquer. BUT anything is possible on a horn that has been wandering around for a few decades.
Cheers,
Andy
From a horn Noah has for sale:
(note these are not original ferrules here)
Color isn't an inherent property, so we're trying to go through your camera here; but it looks like a standard yellow slide that has some darkened, aged lacquer. BUT anything is possible on a horn that has been wandering around for a few decades.
Cheers,
Andy
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Looks like a gold brass slide to me. I briefly owned a NY Bach 36 with gold brass slide tubes AND crook.
Bach did some special orders. For example, I believe it was possible at some times to order a 42 slide with a narrow crook like a Conn. I've seen a special order dual bore slide stamped 42-50.
Bach did some special orders. For example, I believe it was possible at some times to order a 42 slide with a narrow crook like a Conn. I've seen a special order dual bore slide stamped 42-50.
- octavposaune
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Jul 04, 2018
Hi All, here is a wrinkle. That may be all gold brass. BACH used to offer gold brass F attachment tubing on the .562 bore 36-42 valve wraps. The 36s bottom crook is shared with a wrap component as 36 outer slides are .562" it would be possible for Bach to draw down the thicker walled wrap parts for 36 slide useage. I really wish cool stuff like this was still being done.
FWIW I ordered a Bach with gold brass wraps in 1993 and it came in missing the then in catalog option.
MK DRAWING makes rose brass 85cu-15zn outers for most Bach slides. I built myself a 42 and 36 using those tubes and some Shires end crooks.
Also, I have a dual.bore Bach .547-.562 slide stamped 45 from 1997. The 42-50 stamped slide I bought years ago someone had converted it and after the fact stamped the 50 on with a different font stamp
Benn
FWIW I ordered a Bach with gold brass wraps in 1993 and it came in missing the then in catalog option.
MK DRAWING makes rose brass 85cu-15zn outers for most Bach slides. I built myself a 42 and 36 using those tubes and some Shires end crooks.
Also, I have a dual.bore Bach .547-.562 slide stamped 45 from 1997. The 42-50 stamped slide I bought years ago someone had converted it and after the fact stamped the 50 on with a different font stamp
Benn
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Oh yeah, seeing the comparison next to the yellow brass makes the contrast a lot more stark.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Lol.. to summarize: We don't know. Maybe?
For a 42, I haven't seen a gold brass crook from the factory, but that does not mean they don't exist. Or it could have been swapped with something else. The match between the tubes and crook is the only thing that makes me think not a gold brass slide, but compared to the bell it really looks like gold brass, so maybe!
Cool horn, hope it blows well, it looks great for a 40+ year old horn.
Andy
For a 42, I haven't seen a gold brass crook from the factory, but that does not mean they don't exist. Or it could have been swapped with something else. The match between the tubes and crook is the only thing that makes me think not a gold brass slide, but compared to the bell it really looks like gold brass, so maybe!
Cool horn, hope it blows well, it looks great for a 40+ year old horn.
Andy
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I'd still assume lacquer, based on how unlikely a gold slide would be and knowing what some of my Corp lacquer looks like. But who knows!
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
We all could know! Simply buff a small portion of the slide tube and the truth will be revealed. Of course, you might then need to do a touch-up lacquer job on that spot and could end up with a multiple-hue slide. Decisions, decisions!
- dapezar
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Feb 17, 2022
Yesterday a friend of mine showed me a Bach slide made in 1989 and it had the same characteristics as mine made in 1978. Same tone colour, same circular curve and same crooks.
His slide didn't seem to be relacqued or became darkens. It seemed to be original gold brass.
I'll try to get some pics to show you.
His slide didn't seem to be relacqued or became darkens. It seemed to be original gold brass.
I'll try to get some pics to show you.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Looks like a normal yellow brass slide to me. Does not match the gold brass bell. Looks completely different.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="brassmedic"]Looks like a normal yellow brass slide to me. Does not match the gold brass bell. Looks completely different.[/quote]
I agree with Brad, but for me it is only apparent in 2 or 3 of those photos. The lighting and camera angles make things too vague in the rest of the photos.
I agree with Brad, but for me it is only apparent in 2 or 3 of those photos. The lighting and camera angles make things too vague in the rest of the photos.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="dapezar"]Yesterday a friend of mine showed me a Bach slide made in 1989 and it had the same characteristics as mine made in 1978. Same tone colour, same circular curve and same crooks.
His slide didn't seem to be relacqued or became darkens. It seemed to be original gold brass.
I'll try to get some pics to show you.[/quote]
Again, color is NOT an inherent property; but nothing about that looks like a gold brass slide to me. Looks like a standard Bach yellow brass slide.
*a note on the idea of buffing a small section, unless you also take a minute to buff a reference section; this can also be a bit of a wild goose chase. Some gold brass looks VERY yellow when freshly buffed.
Cheers,
Andy
His slide didn't seem to be relacqued or became darkens. It seemed to be original gold brass.
I'll try to get some pics to show you.[/quote]
Again, color is NOT an inherent property; but nothing about that looks like a gold brass slide to me. Looks like a standard Bach yellow brass slide.
*a note on the idea of buffing a small section, unless you also take a minute to buff a reference section; this can also be a bit of a wild goose chase. Some gold brass looks VERY yellow when freshly buffed.
Cheers,
Andy