proper sockets for TR181 triggers?
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Whoops! I was examining the geometry of my trigger linkages and broke one of the nylon(?) sockets.
What do i need to order to properly replace those?
I'll note that about 20+ years ago I was in this same spot and dutifully inquired as to the proper replacement parts and bought those, but they turned out to be so tight that the triggers didn't move anymore. I ended up super-gluing the broken one back together.
But now it is broken again.
What do I really need to get for these to work?
This Holton TR 181 was made in the mid-70s if that makes a difference.
Thanks in advance.
What do i need to order to properly replace those?
I'll note that about 20+ years ago I was in this same spot and dutifully inquired as to the proper replacement parts and bought those, but they turned out to be so tight that the triggers didn't move anymore. I ended up super-gluing the broken one back together.
But now it is broken again.
What do I really need to get for these to work?
This Holton TR 181 was made in the mid-70s if that makes a difference.
Thanks in advance.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
It seems this part is not available.
In the absence of a replacement I have devised a solution of my own. The applicator tube from a can of "Great Stuff" expanding foam is just wide enough to ride on the mini-balls and is held in place with a rubber band.
This is way faster than the nylon sockets ever were! I wish I had know about "Great Stuff" 40 years ago.
<YOUTUBE id="br-5yx_I3yg">[media]https://youtu.be/br-5yx_I3yg</YOUTUBE>
In the absence of a replacement I have devised a solution of my own. The applicator tube from a can of "Great Stuff" expanding foam is just wide enough to ride on the mini-balls and is held in place with a rubber band.
This is way faster than the nylon sockets ever were! I wish I had know about "Great Stuff" 40 years ago.
<YOUTUBE id="br-5yx_I3yg">
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
I drill and tap the linkage lever and stop arm, then fit miniballs.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="LIBrassCo"]I drill and tap the linkage lever and stop arm, then fit miniballs.[/quote]
You mean... remove the existing mini balls then replace them with other miniballs?
You mean... remove the existing mini balls then replace them with other miniballs?
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Is this a miniball? A search on the term gets ambiguous results.
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- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]Is this a miniball? A search on the term gets ambiguous results.
...[/quote]
It looks like it might be. Minibal is an actual brand... http://minibal.de
...[/quote]
It looks like it might be. Minibal is an actual brand... http://minibal.de
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Some techs use [url=https://www.dubro.com/collections/ball-links]DU-BRO® ball links rather than Minibals.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
The minibal certainly looks more steam punk than the nylon sockets
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
Hah !!!!
I checked out the other post showing your solution.
Congrat's on isolating and diagnosing the problem.
(The current set-up does look a little break-downable)
If you go to the McMaster Carr site noted below, you will see "Mini-ball" rod ends in the small size you need.
They also have threaded brass rods in all diameters.
Attaching the cylindrical bore of mini-ball rod end to the ball on the valve would require a little ingenuity, but unlike the plastic snap on balls, this replacement would be a lifetime solution.
https://www.mcmaster.com/ball-joint-rod-ends/
I checked out the other post showing your solution.
Congrat's on isolating and diagnosing the problem.
(The current set-up does look a little break-downable)
If you go to the McMaster Carr site noted below, you will see "Mini-ball" rod ends in the small size you need.
They also have threaded brass rods in all diameters.
Attaching the cylindrical bore of mini-ball rod end to the ball on the valve would require a little ingenuity, but unlike the plastic snap on balls, this replacement would be a lifetime solution.
https://www.mcmaster.com/ball-joint-rod-ends/
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
I am surprised that among the three major vendors I have contacted to inquire about this part... no one has even responded.
The TR 181 is still being made and sold but... no one sells parts? That's weird.
[quote="CharlieB"]Hah !!!!
I checked out the other post showing your solution.
Congrat's on isolating and diagnosing the problem.
(The current set-up does look a little break-downable)[/quote]
I have not knocked the strut off while playing but I have to remember to not absent minded-ly push against the trigger the wrong way, which causes the strut to no longer be held in place.
The functionality is superior to the original parts so I'll probably just refine the concept to be bit less precariously perched.
I think my next endeavor will be to try to make the valves less clanky.
The TR 181 is still being made and sold but... no one sells parts? That's weird.
[quote="CharlieB"]Hah !!!!
I checked out the other post showing your solution.
Congrat's on isolating and diagnosing the problem.
(The current set-up does look a little break-downable)[/quote]
I have not knocked the strut off while playing but I have to remember to not absent minded-ly push against the trigger the wrong way, which causes the strut to no longer be held in place.
The functionality is superior to the original parts so I'll probably just refine the concept to be bit less precariously perched.
I think my next endeavor will be to try to make the valves less clanky.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]I am surprised that among the three major vendors I have contacted to inquire about this part... no one has even responded.
The TR 181 is still being made and sold but... no one sells parts? That's weird.[/quote]
I don't know why you say that. They are most certainly listed in Conn-Selmer's parts catalog.
<ATTACHMENT filename="socket.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]socket.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
If they don't fit your vintage horn, well I don't know anything about that. But to say "nobody sells them" is not true.
The TR 181 is still being made and sold but... no one sells parts? That's weird.[/quote]
I don't know why you say that. They are most certainly listed in Conn-Selmer's parts catalog.
<ATTACHMENT filename="socket.jpg" index="0">
If they don't fit your vintage horn, well I don't know anything about that. But to say "nobody sells them" is not true.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="brassmedic"]
I don't know why you say that.[/quote]
OK, I'll tell you why I say that.
After my own perusal of the web didn't find that catalog, the email I sent to Conn-Selmer inquiring about this part was never responded to.
And people on this forum who know where to find it did not respond when I inquired with this question at the top of this thread.
The question has been up there for two weeks but no one answered. Other questions on this forum get answered in a nanosecond but no one had an answer to this one.
When you ask a question ad no one answers it is normal to conclude that they don't have an answer.
That is why I said that.
Thank you for the lead on the part.
Well, that gets me back to where I started. No one knows if a working part really is available. :D
I don't know why you say that.[/quote]
OK, I'll tell you why I say that.
After my own perusal of the web didn't find that catalog, the email I sent to Conn-Selmer inquiring about this part was never responded to.
And people on this forum who know where to find it did not respond when I inquired with this question at the top of this thread.
The question has been up there for two weeks but no one answered. Other questions on this forum get answered in a nanosecond but no one had an answer to this one.
When you ask a question ad no one answers it is normal to conclude that they don't have an answer.
That is why I said that.
Thank you for the lead on the part.
If they don't fit your vintage horn, well I don't know anything about that.
Well, that gets me back to where I started. No one knows if a working part really is available. :D
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="174577" time="1648101837" user_id="4102">
I don't know why you say that.[/quote]
OK, I'll tell you why I say that.
After my own perusal of the web didn't find that catalog, the email I sent to Conn-Selmer inquiring about this part was never responded to.
And people on this forum who know where to find it did not respond when I inquired with this question at the top of this thread.
The question has been up there for two weeks but no one answered. Other questions on this forum get answered in a nanosecond but no one had an answer to this one.
When you ask a question ad no one answers it is normal to conclude that they don't have an answer.
That is why I said that.
Thank you for the lead on the part.
Well, that gets me back to where I started. No one knows if a working part really is available. :D
</QUOTE>
That was why I posted here. The fact that you couldn't find the part doesn't mean nobody sells it. Traditionally, Conn-Selmer has only sold items to dealers. You can't buy ANYTHING directly from Conn Selmer unless you show them a business license and set up an account. That may have changed; I don't know. I do know you can look at their parts catalog as a "guest" now without having an account. But selling instrument parts to the general public isn't how they want to make a profit, so they're just not set up for that. Did you email the actual band instrument parts department? If it was a different department, they might not even have known what you were talking about.
I have never had trouble with those parts not fitting, but you said you ordered some a long time ago and they didn't fit. In my experience that is not an issue, but obviously it is for you. If I were doing that repair, I would order the ones from Conn Selmer. If they didn't work then I would have to deal with that. That's what techs do.
If you're dead set on DIYing this, you might try to find a 3rd party seller for that item. I did a simple google search and it looked like Votaw Tool sells those. Maybe they sell to the public; I don't even know. I'm sure you can find out.
I don't know why you say that.[/quote]
OK, I'll tell you why I say that.
After my own perusal of the web didn't find that catalog, the email I sent to Conn-Selmer inquiring about this part was never responded to.
And people on this forum who know where to find it did not respond when I inquired with this question at the top of this thread.
The question has been up there for two weeks but no one answered. Other questions on this forum get answered in a nanosecond but no one had an answer to this one.
When you ask a question ad no one answers it is normal to conclude that they don't have an answer.
That is why I said that.
Thank you for the lead on the part.
If they don't fit your vintage horn, well I don't know anything about that.
Well, that gets me back to where I started. No one knows if a working part really is available. :D
</QUOTE>
That was why I posted here. The fact that you couldn't find the part doesn't mean nobody sells it. Traditionally, Conn-Selmer has only sold items to dealers. You can't buy ANYTHING directly from Conn Selmer unless you show them a business license and set up an account. That may have changed; I don't know. I do know you can look at their parts catalog as a "guest" now without having an account. But selling instrument parts to the general public isn't how they want to make a profit, so they're just not set up for that. Did you email the actual band instrument parts department? If it was a different department, they might not even have known what you were talking about.
I have never had trouble with those parts not fitting, but you said you ordered some a long time ago and they didn't fit. In my experience that is not an issue, but obviously it is for you. If I were doing that repair, I would order the ones from Conn Selmer. If they didn't work then I would have to deal with that. That's what techs do.
If you're dead set on DIYing this, you might try to find a 3rd party seller for that item. I did a simple google search and it looked like Votaw Tool sells those. Maybe they sell to the public; I don't even know. I'm sure you can find out.
- jthomas105
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
You can now buy parts as a guest from the Conn-Selmer parts page.
It used to be that you could just look to find parts.
I have bought a couple of parts from the guest page for my TR181 and my Bach 42B.
It used to be that you could just look to find parts.
I have bought a couple of parts from the guest page for my TR181 and my Bach 42B.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="jthomas105"]You can now buy parts as a guest from the Conn-Selmer parts page.
It used to be that you could just look to find parts.
I have bought a couple of parts from the guest page for my TR181 and my Bach 42B.[/quote]
Well there you go. :good:
It used to be that you could just look to find parts.
I have bought a couple of parts from the guest page for my TR181 and my Bach 42B.[/quote]
Well there you go. :good:
- DoubtFire61
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Apr 07, 2022
Looking at those connectors, they remind me a lot of the same linkages used on Radio Control models.
Might try a local R/C hobby store if worse comes to worse.
Might try a local R/C hobby store if worse comes to worse.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="DoubtFire61"]Looking at those connectors, they remind me a lot of the same linkages used on Radio Control models.
Might try a local R/C hobby store if worse comes to worse.[/quote]
I don't think they're the same. DuBro makes the RC links, and in my experience they are not interchangeable with Holton links. Minick obviously used some larger RC links that must have been available at the time, but I have yet to find anything in that size available now.
Might try a local R/C hobby store if worse comes to worse.[/quote]
I don't think they're the same. DuBro makes the RC links, and in my experience they are not interchangeable with Holton links. Minick obviously used some larger RC links that must have been available at the time, but I have yet to find anything in that size available now.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="brassmedic"]Minick obviously used some larger RC links that must have been available at the time, but I have yet to find anything in that size available now.[/quote]
I had the impression that the large, white sockets were Mirafone parts.
I had the impression that the large, white sockets were Mirafone parts.
- SimmonsTrombone
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Jul 24, 2018
When I had the ones on my TR-180 replaced, the tech found Miraphone parts fit.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="175776" time="1649406340" user_id="4102">Minick obviously used some larger RC links that must have been available at the time, but I have yet to find anything in that size available now.[/quote]
I had the impression that the large, white sockets were Mirafone parts.
</QUOTE>I meant not available from RC hobby stores. I didn't mean not available at all.
I had the impression that the large, white sockets were Mirafone parts.
</QUOTE>I meant not available from RC hobby stores. I didn't mean not available at all.