Ergonomic neckpipes?
- jorymil
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Oct 26, 2019
Is there anyone besides Jupiter out there making horns with curved neck pipes? For all the scorn placed upon Jupiter, they tried something different with the JSL-438.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="jorymil"]For all the scorn placed upon Jupiter, they tried something different with the JSL-438.[/quote]
Nice that they were thinking in that direction, to be sure, but possibly not the most efficient solution, unless you're a[url=https://justhistoryposts.com/2020/04/22/mythical-creatures-the-headless-blemmyes/]blemmy... For a start, I doubt most people's contact with the neckpipe coincides exactly with the centerpoint of its length, so the amount of useful offset may be far less than the engineering would imply. Wider slides, or altering the receiver angle, would have a more universal effect for less effort, I'd have thought.
Some implementations of the Davis Shuman angular trombone include this; not so much in[url=https://patents.google.com/patent/US2669152A/en]the patent, but see the second photo [url=http://patentsonthesolesofyourshoes.blogspot.com/2014/04/oh-patents-davis-shuman-angular-trombone.html]here. Does anyone around here have one of these?
([url=https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/11325]Shuman is a really interesting figure, and his legacy in repertoire and as a teacher (Dave Taylor!) is significant, but the playing... Certainly it represents a stylistic path not subsequently taken (heavy vib, small bore, etc), but it's also just [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y32iWNzjn-k]Not Very Good. If you ignore the entire non-classical world, the 'pioneering recitalist' angle is noteworthy, but that Haydn transcription was recorded in the same year and city as [url=https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mHyL2dBqNVBcGJlVuVRk14QabpOC-zNro]this.)
Nice that they were thinking in that direction, to be sure, but possibly not the most efficient solution, unless you're a
Some implementations of the Davis Shuman angular trombone include this; not so much in
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- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I have one and I was just looking at it yesterday when this post came up. I'll post pictures later.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Back to the original topic. Davis Shuman is an interesting person and is trombones were very unique, but we can discuss that on a different thread.
I don’t think the offset gooseneck is needed because the problem of the gooseneck hitting a player’s neck can be solved with a simpler change…..play with a slide that has a wider crook! I have repaired quite a few of those Jupiters with the “detoured” gooseneck and they were a pain for dent removal. I think it was more that Jupiter didn’t anneal the metal on that part (also a problem with the King 606 models). I haven’t seen a Jupiter with one of those offset goosenecks in about 11 years. Maybe they have changed something and the metal is not as hard now.
I don’t think the offset gooseneck is needed because the problem of the gooseneck hitting a player’s neck can be solved with a simpler change…..play with a slide that has a wider crook! I have repaired quite a few of those Jupiters with the “detoured” gooseneck and they were a pain for dent removal. I think it was more that Jupiter didn’t anneal the metal on that part (also a problem with the King 606 models). I haven’t seen a Jupiter with one of those offset goosenecks in about 11 years. Maybe they have changed something and the metal is not as hard now.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
This is the Davis Shuman trombone.
It also came with a small bent receiver, exactly like a sousaphone bit but small shank size. The intent was to play with the bell facing forward but the slide angled to your right. On videos of the Spike Jones band you can see the trombone player using one, but playing straight ahead with the bell up.
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<YOUTUBE id="Be7O9g2sphw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be7O9g2sphw</YOUTUBE>
It also came with a small bent receiver, exactly like a sousaphone bit but small shank size. The intent was to play with the bell facing forward but the slide angled to your right. On videos of the Spike Jones band you can see the trombone player using one, but playing straight ahead with the bell up.
<GOOGLEDRIVE id="1QhMKlFgYyn6uegZdWBVxRJJ6tcGgCrea">
<GOOGLEDRIVE id="1QduAUpxRBgoVKkh_7qMIcITwsgmcZhVy">
<YOUTUBE id="Be7O9g2sphw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be7O9g2sphw</YOUTUBE>
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Well…..did he really play it? Looks like it was a sacrificial prop for the firecracker routine.
I wonder if there are any videos of Davis playing his unique instrument. The ergonomics make sense.
I wonder if there are any videos of Davis playing his unique instrument. The ergonomics make sense.
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
Thanks Doug. Very interesting.
Do you know who manufactured this one?
Is there a larger taper or screw collar at the end of the sousa bit, or is there a small shank taper in the normal receiver position too? In this other version, you've got no choice, so the leadpipe situation is slightly less mysterious http://www.chadarnow.com/-shuman-ds128.html
Do you know who manufactured this one?
Is there a larger taper or screw collar at the end of the sousa bit, or is there a small shank taper in the normal receiver position too? In this other version, you've got no choice, so the leadpipe situation is slightly less mysterious http://www.chadarnow.com/-shuman-ds128.html
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
There were at least two companies that made them. I think mine is a Reynolds, .485 bore. I've never seen that other version. The "sousa" bit is small shank to small shank with a bend. It can be played with or without it.
The one in the Spike Jones video was cut in the middle of the tuning slide, with a small piece of rubber hose so it was flexible, and the bell braces were unsoldered so it could flop around. He's actually playing it but it doesn't sound too good.
I've never taken mine on a gig. Don't give me any ideas ...
Maybe I should have brought it today on my Easter gig?
The one in the Spike Jones video was cut in the middle of the tuning slide, with a small piece of rubber hose so it was flexible, and the bell braces were unsoldered so it could flop around. He's actually playing it but it doesn't sound too good.
I've never taken mine on a gig. Don't give me any ideas ...
Maybe I should have brought it today on my Easter gig?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I'm pretty sure the other maker of the Shuman trombone was Holton.
Doug Yeo published a way to see how it works. You sit 45 degrees to the left and turn your head back so you are facing forward relative to the chair. You now have your right arm operating approximately like the Shuman trombone. I've tried it and it does give you a little extra reach down the slide. Never really saw the speed improvement, though.
Doug Yeo published a way to see how it works. You sit 45 degrees to the left and turn your head back so you are facing forward relative to the chair. You now have your right arm operating approximately like the Shuman trombone. I've tried it and it does give you a little extra reach down the slide. Never really saw the speed improvement, though.
- ChadA
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Dec 04, 2018
Not to derail into Shuman land, but there were at least 2 different models. Mine looks different, though the neckpipe is still bent. The mouthpiece receiver is, too. My repair tech thought he recognized some Martin parts on it.
A little more info and a few more pics of mine can be found here: http://www.chadarnow.com/-shuman-ds128.html
A little more info and a few more pics of mine can be found here: http://www.chadarnow.com/-shuman-ds128.html