Toscanini... Trombones...?
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
From the NY Philharmonic archives, March 1931.
Maestro Toscanini has conveyed written some directive to management about the trombone players but I can't make it out...
<ATTACHMENT filename="ToscTrombA.jpg" index="1">[attachment=1]ToscTrombA.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="ToscTrombB.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]ToscTrombB.jpg</ATTACHMENT>
Maestro Toscanini has conveyed written some directive to management about the trombone players but I can't make it out...
<ATTACHMENT filename="ToscTrombA.jpg" index="1">
<ATTACHMENT filename="ToscTrombB.jpg" index="0">
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think it might be Toscanini saying who he wants on each part...
I can make out Falcone and Clark; maybe Lucas? Not sure about the third...
I can make out Falcone and Clark; maybe Lucas? Not sure about the third...
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Looks like Heines on "3th"
- pompatus
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]From the NY Philharmonic archives, March 1931.
Maestro Toscanini has conveyed written some directive to management about the trombone players but I can't make it out...
ToscTrombA.jpg
ToscTrombB.jpg[/quote]
My best guess...
“My dear Mr. _____
In conversations
with Mr. _____ _____
I have requested that
the trombone section
must be as follows
at every concert and
with every conductor
Mr. Falcone solo trombone
Mr. Lucas 2nd
Mr. Heines (?) 3th
Mr. Clarke _____ _____
Very truly yours”
Maestro Toscanini has conveyed written some directive to management about the trombone players but I can't make it out...
ToscTrombA.jpg
ToscTrombB.jpg[/quote]
My best guess...
“My dear Mr. _____
In conversations
with Mr. _____ _____
I have requested that
the trombone section
must be as follows
at every concert and
with every conductor
Mr. Falcone solo trombone
Mr. Lucas 2nd
Mr. Heines (?) 3th
Mr. Clarke _____ _____
Very truly yours”
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="pompatus"]My best guess...
“My dear Mr. _____
In conversations
with Mr. _____ _____
I have requested that
the trombone section
must be as follows
at every concert and
with every conductor
Mr. Falcone solo trombone
Mr. Lucas 2nd
Mr. Heines (?) 3th
Mr. Clarke _____ _____
Very truly yours”[/quote]
That seems right.
I've heard that Toscanini thought of being a doctor but his handwriting was too good.
.
“My dear Mr. _____
In conversations
with Mr. _____ _____
I have requested that
the trombone section
must be as follows
at every concert and
with every conductor
Mr. Falcone solo trombone
Mr. Lucas 2nd
Mr. Heines (?) 3th
Mr. Clarke _____ _____
Very truly yours”[/quote]
That seems right.
I've heard that Toscanini thought of being a doctor but his handwriting was too good.
.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Did some digging through the NY Phil archives.
Here's a program from December 12, 1931
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/fullview">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/20310931-8943-491f-b447-9080c5730f9c-0.1/fullview</LINK_TEXT>
It lists Mario Falcone, George Lucas, Allie Clarke, and Roy Haines as trombone soloists.
Here's some biographical stuff on Falcone:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/mode/2up">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/5861c52e-be7f-4a87-aa5c-61062a9d6dde-0.1/fullview#page/1/mode/2up</LINK_TEXT>
The catalog entries list "Clarke, Albert E." and "Haines, LeRoy (Roy) R."
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?
Here's a program from December 12, 1931
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/fullview">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/20310931-8943-491f-b447-9080c5730f9c-0.1/fullview</LINK_TEXT>
It lists Mario Falcone, George Lucas, Allie Clarke, and Roy Haines as trombone soloists.
Here's some biographical stuff on Falcone:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/mode/2up">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/5861c52e-be7f-4a87-aa5c-61062a9d6dde-0.1/fullview#page/1/mode/2up</LINK_TEXT>
The catalog entries list "Clarke, Albert E." and "Haines, LeRoy (Roy) R."
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?[/quote]
It appears to say March 16 1931
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?[/quote]
It appears to say March 16 1931
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="JohnL" post_id="176030" time="1649697437" user_id="119">
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?[/quote]
It appears to say March 16 1931
</QUOTE>
That's a three? Looks more seven-ish to me - though I suppose context is everything.
So it would be from the season before the program I linked to.
Seems we've got the gist of it now.
I think the very first line is "My Dear Mr. Judson"; Arthur Judson was the Orchestra Manager. The person he mentions having conversations with is likely Vincent Van Praag, who joined the orchestra in 1916 as a horn player and became personnel manager in 1922, eventually retiring in 1952.
Maybe that one missing word is "alternate"? The first letter looks like and a and the second letter looks almost identical to the l in "Clarke".
Robert, do you have any idea of when this note was written?[/quote]
It appears to say March 16 1931
</QUOTE>
That's a three? Looks more seven-ish to me - though I suppose context is everything.
So it would be from the season before the program I linked to.
Seems we've got the gist of it now.
I think the very first line is "My Dear Mr. Judson"; Arthur Judson was the Orchestra Manager. The person he mentions having conversations with is likely Vincent Van Praag, who joined the orchestra in 1916 as a horn player and became personnel manager in 1922, eventually retiring in 1952.
My dear Mr. Judson
In conversations
with Mr. Van Praag
I have requested that
the trombone section
must be as follows
at every concert and
with every conductor
Mr. Falcone solo trombone
Mr. Lucas 2nd
Mr. Haines 3th
Mr. Clarke _____ _____
Very truly yours
Maybe that one missing word is "alternate"? The first letter looks like and a and the second letter looks almost identical to the l in "Clarke".
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
I wonder what precipitated this.
Do you suppose they were doing rock-paper-scissors to decide who got what part prior to this?
Do you suppose they were doing rock-paper-scissors to decide who got what part prior to this?
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Your guess is as good as mine. It wasn't a new lineup; I see the same four in this program:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/fullview">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/5d2e7e6a-2d0b-49d0-82ed-81f4cd129cbf-0.1/fullview</LINK_TEXT>
From the 1929-1930 season.
It may be that they were rotating around and Mr. Toscanini wanted the same bodies in the same chairs every night.
What's odd is that he insisted on that same lineup even for those concerts that he wasn't going to conduct. Maybe some of the other conductors preferred a different seating and the maestro objected?
If Google Translate hasn't led me wrong, this book:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://books.google.com/books?id=BedA6 ... &q&f=false">https://books.google.com/books?id=BedA6IE9ZhEC&pg=PA215&lpg=PA215&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false</LINK_TEXT>
says that Falcone and Clarke were alternating as first trombone, at least at some point in time.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/a ... 1/fullview">https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/5d2e7e6a-2d0b-49d0-82ed-81f4cd129cbf-0.1/fullview</LINK_TEXT>
From the 1929-1930 season.
It may be that they were rotating around and Mr. Toscanini wanted the same bodies in the same chairs every night.
What's odd is that he insisted on that same lineup even for those concerts that he wasn't going to conduct. Maybe some of the other conductors preferred a different seating and the maestro objected?
If Google Translate hasn't led me wrong, this book:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://books.google.com/books?id=BedA6 ... &q&f=false">https://books.google.com/books?id=BedA6IE9ZhEC&pg=PA215&lpg=PA215&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false</LINK_TEXT>
says that Falcone and Clarke were alternating as first trombone, at least at some point in time.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Note that this Clarke had a custom mouthpiece with his name on it that was copied to become the 6 1/2 AL. DJ sent one in a box of mouthpieces for me to analyze. I think it was a Conn Clarke. I was sorely tempted not to return it (but ethics dictate otherwise ;) ).