Coooooovid

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-04-11 1:32 p.m.

Just a psa that this thing is still very much going around. I had to fly in to Boston for a business trip last week, and I still take pretty excessive precautions N95 everywhere public etc … tested positive this weekend and I’ve barely been able to get out of bed. Double vaccination plus booster. They aren’t letting you come in to get tested in my state if you already have a positive test, so I assume I have omicron. But If this is the mild version I can’t even imagine how bad the other variants were.

Anyway time to take my 3rd nap today.

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2022-04-11 1:43 p.m.

So sorry to hear this. I am already anxious about some trips I have to take over the next few months, both domestic and abroad. Take care, Matt, and get medical help if you need it!

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-04-11 2:11 p.m.

Get better soon, Matt!

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-04-11 2:13 p.m.

Get well soon.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-04-11 2:13 p.m.

Oh man, sorry to hear that. Get all the rest you need.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-04-11 2:46 p.m.

We keep getting new variants of this thing and each successive one seems to be more contageous (catching) but less severe than the last. It seems here in New England we are the hotbed for the latest wave. I'm hoping since I had the last variant (along with two vaccinations and a booster) I won't be as bothered. At least the vaccines have made is a lot less likely to wind up dead from any of the variants. I guess that is a good thing for now.

Matt, take care. At least while you are confined to quarters you can spend a little more time here. And maybe get in some practice (although I can understand if you don't feel like it).

atopper333 · by **atopper333** » 2022-04-11 3:31 p.m.

I’m sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon.

I’ve had the darn thing twice…the initial wave, got my vaccines, and then followed up with another bout middle of last year. The first time was way worse than the second for me.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-04-11 9:40 p.m.

[quote="Matt K"]...and I’ve barely been able to get out of bed. Double vaccination plus booster...[/quote]

That is very concerning. I hope you are on the mend soon!

MrHCinDE · by **MrHCinDE** » 2022-04-13 3:23 a.m.

Hope you feel better soon, take care!

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2022-04-13 12:08 p.m.

Hope you feel better soon. Anecdata, but seems like everybody's getting it lately, including people with 3-4 doses who managed to dodge first Omicron wave...

[quote="BGuttman"]We keep getting new variants of this thing and each successive one seems to be more contageous (catching) but less severe than the last.[/quote]
Common misconception; it won't necessarily get less severe over time (Delta was more severe than previous variants, Omicron was probably about as severe for a susceptible individual as the original Wuhan strain). By now there's a lot fewer completely susceptible people, since most unvaccinated people and many unvaccinated people have been infected at least once already.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2022-04-13 12:23 p.m.

Those of you who have had covid, how has it affected your lungs, the ability to breathe and to play a wind instrument? That's the one big thing I'm afraid of.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-04-13 12:31 p.m.

Theres a thing... I had it three weeks ago. Almost symptomless ... in fact kept working from home. Just a slight cough and some congestion on the chest so thought I was pretty fortunate. However... now I am back to playing and didnt notice until gigs and rehearsals but I am breathing every full bar when playing a single f... this is a dual bore bass trombone but none the less - I hope it gets better shortly, its embarrasssing! (someone remind me what the term 'phrasing' means!)... Doug

Ozzlefinch · by **Ozzlefinch** » 2022-04-13 12:34 p.m.

I've done a lot of travel this year and it's interesting what the restrictions are compared to when I traveled overseas last year. The airlines still require a negative COVID test, but apart from the baggage check, nobody even looked at it. Belgium requires you to upload a negative test in a pre-screen, but the airports don't require masks or any real precautions except on the aircraft itself. Germany and Austria require masks in public transport, but nowhere else (it's voluntary for private stores and restaurants) and they no longer require written permission for work related travel or notification of travel to their Ministry of Health. Austria has one of the lowest rates of vaccination in Europe, but also the lowest illness rates as well. Returning to the USA required a negative test, either the PCR or Rapid, but again, nobody looked at it because the policy is now that it is an "inspectable" item that is only randomly checked.

Seems that by and large countries around the world are dropping restrictions. Whether it's because COVID isn't the threat it was 2 years ago, or for political reasons I can't really say. So far I've been in conferences and events with several hundreds of people from all over the US and Europe and I am still COVID negative.

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-04-13 8:11 p.m.

I too share Matt's levels of risk tolerance: masks in public and at work will be with me for at least the rest of the year. I was planning to travel to Boston soon as well: I was there for nearly 15 years and miss it tremendously.

Hang in there, Matt (and the rest of you as well): could just as easily be me.

John

Geordie · by **Geordie** » 2022-04-14 11:35 a.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Those of you who have had covid, how has it affected your lungs, the ability to breathe and to play a wind instrument? That's the one big thing I'm afraid of.[/quote]

Tiredness and a general feeling of being ‘washed out’ struck me more. No real breathlessness when playing 3B or 3B+. After about five weeks I’ve felt far less ‘washed out’ and done a couple of runs, around 1.5 miles, to start returning to a normal regime. Found it hard to run, even slowly, for more than 2-3 minutes. Breathless but not tired.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-04-14 11:53 a.m.

6th wave sigh

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2022-04-14 7:16 p.m.

My wife tested positive yesterday, after a couple of days of feeling sick, but not testing positive. She has been in bed for 3 days. Even with being vaxxed and boosted she has been hit pretty hard.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-04-15 3:29 a.m.

Matt - you be careful, I got covid by sleeping with a woman that had covid! In the interest of good form I point out I was married to that woman!!!!.... Doug

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2022-04-15 3:45 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]I point out I was married to that woman!!!!.... Doug[/quote]

Not a good excuse <EMOJI seq="1f615" tseq="1f615">😕</EMOJI>

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-04-15 8:32 a.m.

My mother did warn me but... !

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2022-04-15 8:43 a.m.

sacfxdx · by **sacfxdx** » 2022-04-15 10:07 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]I got covid by sleeping with a woman that had covid![/quote]

Does that make Covid a STD? :lol:

Sorry. I could not resist.

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-04-15 1:28 p.m.

For us single folks out there, that's actually true! The symptoms may be worse as well, depending on how your body reacts. A lot of people's relationships have not lasted through the pandemic, and people's levels of risk acceptance are quite different, so you kind of _do_ have to approach COVID like another STD. Conversations nobody enjoys....

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-04-16 10:51 a.m.

It is a staggering factoid that COVID has killed more people in the US in two years than AIDS has in four decades.

And yet the public response is more denial and impatience than anything else.

atopper333 · by **atopper333** » 2022-04-16 4:03 p.m.

[quote="Geordie"]<QUOTE author="hyperbolica" post_id="176256" time="1649867018" user_id="104">

Those of you who have had covid, how has it affected your lungs, the ability to breathe and to play a wind instrument? That's the one big thing I'm afraid of.
[/quote]

Tiredness and a general feeling of being ‘washed out’ struck me more. No real breathlessness when playing 3B or 3B+. After about five weeks I’ve felt far less ‘washed out’ and done a couple of runs, around 1.5 miles, to start returning to a normal regime. Found it hard to run, even slowly, for more than 2-3 minutes. Breathless but not tired.

</QUOTE>

When I had it, I was crazy tired and had massive headaches and joint pain. My airways were never really too bad. I never felt out of breath on either bout with Covid. I will say, sometimes I would walk up a small hill or stairs that I would routinely go over or up and never feel out of breath, but did at times…but after awhile even that disappeared.

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-04-16 9:57 p.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]It is a staggering factoid that COVID has killed more people in the US in two years than AIDS has in four decades.[/quote]
The United States has not done well in terms of deaths per capita compared to other countries. Somewhere around 20th, depending on whose stats you're looking at. Obviously the method of transmission is very, very different for COVID than for AIDS, so it's expected that COVID will have caused more deaths. The degree of lifestyle interruption for COVID is considerably higher for AIDS as well: nobody is worried about catching AIDS at the grocery store or by going to concerts.

Perhaps a better comparison would be the influenza pandemic of 1918-1921, which killed far more people worldwide than World War I. Likewise, the U.S. lost fewer people in the Civil War than to the COVID pandemic. The numbers boggle the mind.

We _must_ continue to support one another: as much as we'd like this to be over, viruses are really good at mutating.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-04-16 10:55 p.m.

Yes, the concerns are different.

If COVID was like AIDS... and catching it made everyone think you were gay... this country would be masks on top of masks inside personal isolation suits and decontamination ray guns. They'd be talking about concentration camps for carriers... as people were talking in the 1980s.

As it is, if you die of COVID today, we just presume you were a Republican.

A problem for the 1918 epidemic was that no one knew what a virus was yet. They had to work on vague ideas about transmission without knowing what the transmitted thing was.

jonphilpott · by **jonphilpott** » 2022-04-18 6:05 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Those of you who have had covid, how has it affected your lungs, the ability to breathe and to play a wind instrument? That's the one big thing I'm afraid of.[/quote]

I spent 10 days in ICU last year with covid, i wasn't intubated (narrowly) but i did have to live with an oxygen tank for about a week after wards and was on of breathe with even light activity for about weeks, i would say a total of 6 weeks of total recovery. I had a chest x-ray and exam from a pulmonologist and was told there was no permanent lung damage/scarring. I will add that I am relatively young (late 30s)

GabrielRice · by **GabrielRice** » 2022-04-18 6:18 p.m.

Sorry to hear about everybody who has had it. I caught it last week as well, and I'm isolating in my house from my wife, who is still testing negative. My symptoms are like a chest cold, and the antiviral meds seem to be working to minimize and shorten them.

I don't know if it made national news, but 31 musicians of the Boston Symphony and Tanglewood Festival Chorus caught covid a couple of weeks ago, related to unmasked concerts of the Britten War Requiem and causing the BSO to cancel their European tour. There has also been a minor outbreak among the music students at Boston University. It's hitting the Boston music community pretty hard right now, just in time for all the big choral concerts planned to end the season. At least I'll be immune for a while...

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-04-25 7:49 a.m.

Hey all, thanks for the kind words! I am happy to report that I am, in fact, still alive (to the best of my knowledge)! I basically slept for like 4 days and then had to play catch up with work but I really truly appreciate everyone who sent me a message, and really sorry I didn't respond (promise I'm getting to it!!)

I'm still really tired far more than I used to be prior to covid. And I'm still coughing. But I actually had a lot of improvement over the weekend being out doing yardwork and getting lots of fresh air. I took my first deep breath in like, a month yesterday. Still have a much reduced sense of taste/smell too. But that's coming back too. Really strange how people react so differently to it.

At any rate, I suspect I'll be back to normal by next month. Yikes though, that took me out of the game for most of April. I'm mostly happy that I managed to avoid giving it to my family!

GabrielRice · by **GabrielRice** » 2022-04-25 8:47 a.m.

Good to hear, Matt.

I come out of quarantine tomorrow. Never lost my taste or smell. After I finished the Paxlovid my relatively mild symptoms had a resurgence. Lots of coughing the last two days. This morning feels better so far. Fingers crossed.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-04-25 12:40 p.m.

Mucinex helped a lot with my coughing (because it made the… yucky… thinner). But I’m young enough that they didn’t let me have an antiviral. Not sure if there’s an interference with the antivirals and that. Might be redundant for you!

GabrielRice · by **GabrielRice** » 2022-04-25 12:49 p.m.

Been taking Mucinex too...

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-04-25 2:53 p.m.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... ong-covid/">https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/04/harvard-medical-school-expert-explains-long-covid/</LINK_TEXT>

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2022-04-25 4:25 p.m.

I had Covid early - around Christmas 2020. I thought I was being really careful, but obviously was momentarily close to someone else that had it. Still, with the conscientious mask wearing and hand washing, I think I avoided getting a "large viral load" as they call it, and my case was relatively mild. A couple of really crappy days, though, with bad chills at night. After that, I was almost first in line when they okayed the vaccines for my age group, and at this point, have had 4 shots, since I started with AstraZeneca, and switched to Pfizer for my booster (and then was told that I needed another since it's also 2-shot dose). No regrets at all about getting my shots - it was a bit scary having Covid when the hospitalizations were very high. Let's hope that there are no new variants that bring back that scenario.

Jim Scott

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-04-25 9:17 p.m.

Glad to hear you all are bouncing back. I shall be interested to hear your updates in the weeks to come.

Did we ever hear again from the guy who said the vaccine gave him Bell's palsy?

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2022-05-03 11:31 a.m.

Got covid with everyone else back in January. Whole family had it, all vaccinated- nobody was super sick. I continued practicing through it at altitude.

Word of advice though, don't get sick with anything else while the boogeyman of covid is still around. I was almost turned away from urgent care in September of 2020 when I had a bad infection because I honestly answered the covid questionnaire. Instead of me seeing my ENT, they wanted to turn me around and send me to the ER.

Bach5G · 2022-05-03 2:15 p.m.

Suddenly this has become a personal dilemma.

The orchestra of which I am a member has been preparing for a concert with a choir (Requiem, Carmina). I confess I hadn’t really turned my mind to the COVID implications. But today, I received an email stating the choir will have rapid testing kits available at the dress and at the two concerts.

I am reminded that one of the early super spreader events was a choir practice in Everett WA back in March 2020. And, my understanding is that the studies distinguish between instrumental rehearsals and choirs, the latter being riskier.

So far no one in my immediate family has come down with COVID. But my bubble includes my 93 year old father in law. We’ve all been vaccinated and boosted but that is far less than 100% effective. And some in-laws and nieces have come down with COVID notwithstanding being full vaccinated and boosted.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-05-03 2:51 p.m.

I just played a concert of the Brahms Requiem and the conductor, strings, and choir all wore masks. Only the wind players didn't.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-05-03 5:49 p.m.

[quote="paulyg"]Word of advice though, don't get sick with anything else while the boogeyman of covid is still around. I was almost turned away from urgent care in September of 2020 when I had a bad infection because I honestly answered the covid questionnaire. Instead of me seeing my ENT, they wanted to turn me around and send me to the ER.[/quote]
I've run into that, too. The medical group I go to has a pretty long screening questionnaire, even now.

One curious question is that they want to know if you've been tested recently. Not if you've tested positive - just if you've been tested.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-05-04 3:34 a.m.

A month or so ago I had a concert scheduled for the band that I co-manage. I got covid just before but was completely Asymatic - I only knew I had it because I was testing each day because of working with different children everyday. I missed a couple since I knew I had it anyway then started testing again. On day 5 I tested negative, which just happened to be the day of the concert, so I thought I would be ok but we had, until that very day a covid law that said we had to stay at home for 5 days from testing positive. Strictly 5 days if you worked by 24 hour periods wasnt until 9am the following morning. The rest of the management (both of them) insisted despite the negative test that I should obey the previous law, even though that law finished at midnight the day before the concert. Not wishing to rock the boat and to be socially agreable - I didnt attend. Three days after the concert 5 of the band went down with covid (not badly I am pleased to say). I am quite sure had I gone (which legally I was entitled to) I would have almost certainly got the blame for spreading the virus. I have never been more thankful for deciding to be 'socially responsible'!... Doug

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-04 8:03 a.m.

In my state they're saying 10 days after you first test positive is when you can stop isolating. There's effectively no enforcement, but that seems reasonable to me for people who don't have a compelling need to be around others for that time frame. I've long thought it should be the same way for most communicable illnesses.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-05-04 8:32 a.m.

[quote="Matt K"]In my state they're saying 10 days after you first test positive is when you can stop isolating. There's effectively no enforcement, but that seems reasonable to me for people who don't have a compelling need to be around others for that time frame. I've long thought it should be the same way for most communicable illnesses.[/quote]

Different diseases remain communicable for different periods. We're still learning about COVID and I'll bet the 10 days is still an estimate. If you are really paranoid, stay isolated longer. If you go out with symptoms, you must be Donald Trump ;)

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-05-04 9:22 a.m.

I am not expressing MY opinion here but, from the beginning of April the UK government removed any obligation to self isolate. That said I think we are probably better vaccinated (% population) than you in the US are? certainly despite this new relaxation the death rate continues to drop and everyone catching it now apperars to only have moderate to no symptoms. There remains the request/advice to self isolate of course... Doug

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-04 9:52 a.m.

Im honestly not sure. Im definitely on the paranoid side of things and my job can be done totally from my

Home office so it could have been 30 days and it would have minimal impact on my lifestyle. So I’m totally bias in that regard. If my livelihood was impacted by that number I’d probably feel a lot differently

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-05-04 10:23 a.m.

What is it they safe "better safe than sorry". It is different if your livelyhood or someone elses life depends on you though.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-05-04 11:07 a.m.

I’ve been told that our rehearsals and concerts will have everybody but the winds/brass masked.

I’m still not thrilled but whatever.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-04 12:32 p.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]...That said I think we are probably better vaccinated (% population) than you in the US are? certainly despite this new relaxation the death rate continues to drop and everyone catching it now appears to only have moderate to no symptoms...[/quote]

I don't doubt that the UK has been better at all this than the US (it would be hard to be worse) but by the measure of deaths the UK seems to be long ramp-up rather than a decline. Not nearly as bad as the peaks, however...
<ATTACHMENT filename="UKCovid.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~UKCovid.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

For comparison, here is the US...
<ATTACHMENT filename="USCovid.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~USCovid.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

If were going to make a prediction for the US based on this chart, Summer 2022 will be another low period for cases/deaths as it was in 2020 and 2021, people will say it's all over as they did in 2020 and 2021 and it will come roaring back in the fall.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-05-04 1:51 p.m.

Interesting... I dont have enough knowledge to dispute the UK stats but I do know that anyone who dies of anything within a month of catching covid is recorded as death by covid so that includes all cancer patients, heart attacks, sepsis, dementia - you name it and thats not to mention the good old winter flu which seems to have entirely disapeared as a cause of death. Is that the same in the US? It just seems to my simple and largely naive brain that that might completely skew the real figures as many of these people would have, sadly, died anyway... just thinking out loud

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-05-04 2:14 p.m.

John Campbell (look him up on YouTube) uses a statistic called "excess deaths" where he compares current deaths against a historic average. A significant increase can be attributed to COVID, but a statistically insignificant increase should be ignored.

Incidentally, CDC data shows that the US is undergoing a gradual increase in cases (although not a great increase in deaths); especially here in the Northeast. I think COVID has degenerated to something like a bad flu and we will not see as serious a problem as we did with the earlier variants.

Peripheral: I got my 2nd booster (total 4 shots so far) today. We'll see if I have some kind of reaction. OK for 4 hours thus far.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-04 2:28 p.m.

[quote="DougHulme"].... I dont have enough knowledge to dispute the UK stats but I do know that anyone who dies of anything within a month of catching covid is recorded as death by covid so that includes all cancer patients, heart attacks, sepsis, dementia - you name it and thats not to mention the good old winter flu which seems to have entirely disapeared as a cause of death. Is that the same in the US?...[/quote]

In the US your last words have to be "I'm dying of COVID!" for it to count. Otherwise, it's classed as a slip-and-fall or GSW.

But as long as the definitions have been consistent for each country the graphs should give us some idea of trends.

I have no idea if the definitions have been consistent.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-05-04 4:49 p.m.

By the sounds of that I dont think they have been the same, Yours sounds more accurate to me. Ours skews the death rate unecessarily pessimistically. That said no one seems to be taking it that seriously and very few people or places are wearing masks anymore and even self isolation is not happening but Bruce is right the new variant that proved so contagous is also much less severe in its symptoms and is certainly no worse than 'winter flu' but that of course could be completely down to the vaccination programme.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-04 5:12 p.m.

I have no idea where we're getting our numbers for cases from. WheN I had it, I called up several clinics and they all said not to come in because I tested positive. But there wasn't anywhere I could tell to report my case, so I suspect the numbers are a lot higher... at least in some states. Interestingly, I just checked what the rates are and I know the day I tested positive is incorrect because it says my state had 0 cases and well, I had a case!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-04 7:49 p.m.

Everyone is going to die of something... eventually .

But if you die because your terminal cancer has weakened you such that you don't survive a car collision today, we still say the car accident is what killed you.

If COVID is what is tipping some people over the edge, people who might have otherwise continued on for years more even if they were not 100%, it's fair to say COVID is what did them in, I think.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-04 7:55 p.m.

On the flip side we have a serious obesity and cardiovascular problem in the states. I think it might be more accurate to say that if you are compromised because of something like that and Covid pushes you over the edge that it’s the often decades of lifestyle that “caused” it.

But either way it gets to the idea that attribution of this is incredibly complex and multivariate. And the data for such things is typically horrifically dirty if it’s even available for researchers.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-05-08 2:37 p.m.

Update: soloists came to the last rehearsal and removed their masks to sing. And the choir manager handed out three rapid test kits—dress and two performances— per orchestra member. It was requested we use them.

I am not impressed.

bassclef · by **bassclef** » 2022-05-10 6:02 p.m.

The music director at the theatre I've been working at for the last 10 years or so is also the MD/choir director at a local church. The choir had been on hiatus for obvious reasons but a few the the choir's more histrionically pious members threw a big enough tantrum to get the choir started again last week instead of this coming fall as was planned. One short rehearsal later, 12 of the 16 people in attendance tested positive, including the MD. Thankfully he's doing okay so far, but this also caused the cancellation of an entire weekend of sold-out theatre shows as well necessitating about 1,500 refunds @ $35 each from an organization which is trying hard to get back on its feet after shutting down for two whole seasons.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-05-10 6:06 p.m.

So ... histrionically pious but not considerate enough to get vaccinated. Sounds about right.

Hope everybody does well.

Here in my nursing home we suddenly had an entire wing test positive. But they all seem to have the symptoms of a mild cold.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-10 6:15 p.m.

They definitely could have been vaccinated. I didn't get a 4th shot because as far as I know that isn't even approved for someone my age and I got it. It did seem to weaken my symptoms and I didn't pass it on to my family though. Only really maybe today that I stopped coughing. Still a little. Still feeling very tired. So cough took almost a month to get rid of. Yeesh!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-11 10:11 a.m.

I got my COVID # 4 and my second shingles vaccine yesterday. Now I can live with zero fear of shingles for the rest of my life and moderately reduced fear of COVID for the next six months.

If you are 50+ go get ~~[url=https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/multimedia/shringrix-50-older.html]~~the shingles vaccine. People who get shingles get seriously messed up.

I went to my first sit-down concert since this all began. A cello ensemble of about 24.

No one on stage was wearing a mask and I was one of maybe only 10 in the audience of perhaps a few hundred wearing a mask.

The ensemble leader had to tell a joke during the proceedings...

A cello player is walking on the beach and he finds a lamp. He picks it up, rubs it and a genie comes out.

The genie says, "I'm kind of busy but I can give you one wish."

"I'd like to have world peace," requests the cello player.

"That's totally impractical, ask for something else!" the genie retorts.

The cello player thinks for a bit, "OK... well... I've been playing cello for 50 years and I'd like to play really in tune."

The genie groans, "What was that first wish again?"

Bach5G · 2022-05-11 11:42 p.m.

Principal trombone (I play 2nd) absent from tonight’s rehearsal. Says he came down with symptoms 5-6 days ago but is good to go for tomorrow’s dress. 2 concerts this weekend.

80 singers.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-05-12 12:40 a.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]Principal trombone (I play 2nd) absent from tonight’s rehearsal. Says he’s good to go for tomorrow’s dress.

2 concerts this weekend.

80 singers.[/quote]

Good luck! :roll:

greenjambone · by **greenjambone** » 2022-05-12 11:13 a.m.

Hope you're feeling better now!

I had it in October of that first year, then got my vaccine and boosters, then caught COVID again this past December. Each time was at a gig. Our keyboard player and drummer also just had it in April.

The first time I was sick, it took a while to get my breath support back... pretty disconcerting.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-05-12 12:45 p.m.

Got my second (Pfizer) booster yesterday - just in time (I hope) to provide additional protection for a lengthy plane trip next week and another in June. We'll be N95/KN95-masked on the flights.

We may be done with this evil virus, but it isn't done with us!

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-05-15 3:53 p.m.

Made it through a couple of rehearsals and 2 concerts. The prince attended the dress and the performances. He may be in technical compliance with RTW guidelines, depending on whether you view fatigue as a symptom. A few people not happy with the situation.

Got to play tuba mirum twice. I got my own bow at an orch concert, something new for me. Now laying low, keeping an eye out for symptoms.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-18 2:25 p.m.

In the US you are due some free at-home COVID tests

https://www.covid.gov/tests

Might be useful to have on hand and expedite discussion if your health insurance has some sort of telemedicine service they ask you to describe your illness.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-05-18 7:47 p.m.

One group my wife and I play in is suffering through what is hopefully a small outbreak. In addition to the original infected individual, I know of two other members who have been sick. Tomorrow will be Day 10 after the initial exposure; my wife had "close contact" but has shown no symptoms and has been testing negative.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-05-20 10:21 p.m.

Self-isolating with mild symptoms. Unimpressed.

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2022-05-23 5:38 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]Self-isolating with mild symptoms. Unimpressed.[/quote]

Dang, sorry to hear it got you. You're certainly right that the principal should've been more cautious.

FWIW the official CDC guidance (flawed as it is) recommends a return to work after 5 days only if you are able to wear a well-fitting mask, and not to go places where you are unable to wear a mask. Obviously it is impossible to wear a mask while performing on trombone, so it doesn't sound to me as though he was even in technical compliance with RTW guidelines.

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-05-23 8:31 p.m.

It's definitely starting to get worse here in the States. I just had two family members get it, and just finished up my 10 days of testing and masking after being exposed. Hopefully all goes well for you.

FWIW, there are "musicians' masks": https://www.hickeys.com/search/products/sku129357.php

And it's possible to sound badass while wearing one: <YOUTUBE id="PWKp4iqHD0A">https://youtu.be/PWKp4iqHD0A</YOUTUBE>

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-05-23 8:58 p.m.

I see how this could take a turn and get real serious, real fast.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-05-23 9:00 p.m.

I have one of those masks. I’m sure it’s better than nothing but probably not by any meaningful amount.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-23 11:06 p.m.

And if COVID weren't enough...

~~[size=150][url=https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/22/health/monkeypox-cases-sunday/index.html][color=#800040]~~More than 100 confirmed or suspected cases of monkeypox have been reported in 12 countries, including the US

"It's not as contagious as Covid. So I am confident we're going to be able to keep our arms around it," Jha said. "But we'll track it very closely and use the tools we have to make sure we can continue to prevent further spread and take care of the people who get infected."

Health experts say close contact with an infected person is required to spread the monkeypox virus.

Infection can develop after exposure to "broken skin, mucous membranes, respiratory droplets, infected body fluids or even contact with contaminated linen," according to Neil Mabbott, personal chair in immunopathology at the veterinary school of the University of Edinburgh in Scotland.

"Not as contagious" but "respiratory droplets" is also how we're getting COVID.

Hmmm.

.

jorymil · by **jorymil** » 2022-05-23 11:14 p.m.

And influenza. And the common cold. And a whole bunch of other things. This one's a long way still from Covid. The media is very good at amplifying, especially when the disease has a name like "monkeypox."

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-05-24 1:27 a.m.

[quote="jorymil"]The media is very good at amplifying,[/quote]

I recall that's what people were saying at the beginning of COVID.

Before it killed a lot of people, they were saying it must not be really dangerous if it hasn't killed a lot of people.

Just media hype!

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-07-19 6:42 p.m.

I have it, woke up this weekend feeling really lousy and tested positive. This milder strain may just be like a bad flu but .......... a bad flu is pretty miserable.

I got on the Paxlovid right away and I do seem to be improving faster than my daughter did, who didn't get meds.

hornado · by **hornado** » 2022-08-12 8:56 p.m.

Hi, I'm new here. Looking for random things to post on to get my account fully functional.

I got sick the day before an annual volunteer orchestra concert I organize. I'm principal horn. It was such a major disappointment and I feel terrible for asking the third horn to take my place. I was relieved that the concert went off mostly without a hitch though. Just such awful timing.

Cotboneman · by **Cotboneman** » 2022-09-18 8:25 p.m.

This thing is still with us, and it's not going away. I'm quadruple vaccinated, wear an N95 mask in public spaces, and still managed to get Covid ten days ago. I will say that the symptoms were relatively mild, but I nevertheless did have them, and the day after I tested positive I had zero energy. But it was all upper respiratory, with no breathing issues at all, so I am convinced it was the BA-5 variant. As of today's post I'm still testing positive (Day 10), but feel almost completely normal. I have an occasional sniffle, but that is the extent of it. I'll quarantine the entire 14 days, or until I test negative. Funny thing is, I was never unable to practice, with the exception of the one bad day.

Where did I get it? Who can tell? I attended my community orchestra rehearsal on the evening of Tuesday, September 6, and I was sneezing then. But my allergies had been flaring the previous weekend, so I thought nothing of it. The orchestra has a strict masking and spacing policy, so it was unlikely that I picked it up there. And no one else who was present that night has reported getting sick. I'm retired and live alone, so I have naturally not been around a large number of people at a job. I'm thankful that my experience was relatively mild, and hope we all remain vigilant. I'm also thankful that I had those shots and boosters. Ironically I was scheduled to receive the Omicron booster on the day I tested positive. I guess I won't need that for awhile now!

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-10-12 11:46 p.m.

WaPo has article about study on long COVID

~~[url=https://wapo.st/3EzlgHX]~~‘We are in trouble’: Study raises alarm about impacts of long covid

A new long-covid study based on the experiences of nearly 100,000 participants provides powerful evidence that many people do not fully recover months after being infected with the coronavirus.

The Scottish study found that between six and 18 months after infection, 1 in 20 people had not recovered and 42 percent reported partial recovery. There were some reassuring aspects to the results: People with asymptomatic infections are unlikely to suffer long-term effects, and vaccination appears to offer some protection from long covid.

42% with only partial recovery!

Between 7 million and 23 million Americans — including 1 million who can no longer work — are suffering from the long-term effects of infection with the virus, according to government estimates. Those numbers are expected to rise as covid becomes an endemic disease.

“It has always been the case that those who are sicker are more likely to have long-term sequelae (symptoms),” Putrino said. “What is frightening is that the mild cases by far outnumber the severe, so even a small percentage of mild cases going on to develop long-term sequelae is a massive public health concern.”

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-10-13 5:08 a.m.

The fatigue went away for me… I think… it’s hard to tell with a 2 y/o… after about 5 months. But I’ve still got a runny nose. Kid started school though so that’s also hard to say if it’s still from Covid or any one of the million viral infections he’s gotten in the last few months. And of course isolating for two years means I have essentially no immune system left as well so I’ve been sick basically since August with a few days in a row where I’m not Ill. Joys of parenthood…

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2022-10-13 8:49 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]Interesting... I dont have enough knowledge to dispute the UK stats but I do know that anyone who dies of anything within a month of catching covid is recorded as death by covid so that includes all cancer patients, heart attacks, sepsis, dementia - you name it and thats not to mention the good old winter flu which seems to have entirely disapeared as a cause of death. Is that the same in the US? It just seems to my simple and largely naive brain that that might completely skew the real figures as many of these people would have, sadly, died anyway... just thinking out loud[/quote]

A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-10-13 8:57 a.m.

Here's the CDC memo - not sure it says what people think.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-10-13 9:05 a.m.

I dealt with death certificate data for a few years, and yeah, even before covid, it was, oftentimes, an approximation. We could tie the individual back to their health records where I worked, and sometimes we'd scratch our heads with the laundry list of things that a person had compared to the single item that may have been on the person's death certificate.

Oftentimes, someone dies from a constellation of things, not just a single line item. Even in cases of trauma like a gunshot wound or being run over or something, someone has worse odds of dying if they aren't in good health. Now that we have digital records it should theoretically be more easy to identify those issues, but lets say that someone would have survived an inpatient visit if they didn't have Covid... or diabetes etc. What actually killed them? How many things need to be listed on the death certificate to get a complete picture? What are actually just edge cases that we shouldn't worry about? It's something that seems pretty straightforward, but ends up being quite a bit more difficult to quantify when you actually start looking at the complete picture.

robcat2075 · by **robcat2075** » 2022-10-13 9:06 a.m.

[quote="officermayo"]A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.[/quote]

I can't find any reporting on such a memo. Is there some? Can your friend produce that memo? It wouldn't be a secret document, not after it got sent to every hospital in the country.

Here is the actual CDC guidance on reporting causes of death:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding ... orting.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding-and-reporting.htm</LINK_TEXT>

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-10-13 10:27 a.m.

As Matt said, often the cause of death is a combination of things. Some ailments make you more susceptible to others. When old folks die it's often reported as "pneumonia". Pneumonia per se doesn't have to be fatal, but if your body is drained from chronic kidney disease, emphysema from smoking, or some other complication you become more sensitive to the pneumonia.

I just got my THIRD booster. This one is "bivalent" (as a chemist, bivalent has a different meaning for me) for the original strain and the Omicron strain. Already had a mild case of COVID so I don't even know if what I had is gone. Never felt sick while I tested positive and don't feel any different now. Although I've definitely lost a step or three from what I could do 10 years ago.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-10-13 10:40 a.m.

[quote="officermayo"]<QUOTE author="DougHulme" post_id="177875" time="1651686685" user_id="3157">
Interesting... I dont have enough knowledge to dispute the UK stats but I do know that anyone who dies of anything within a month of catching covid is recorded as death by covid so that includes all cancer patients, heart attacks, sepsis, dementia - you name it and thats not to mention the good old winter flu which seems to have entirely disapeared as a cause of death. Is that the same in the US? It just seems to my simple and largely naive brain that that might completely skew the real figures as many of these people would have, sadly, died anyway... just thinking out loud[/quote]

A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.
</QUOTE>

These stories appear to be mostly "fake news." Both referenced CDC guidelines in this thread (by timothy42b and Robcat2075) provide no such "direction." Certainly not the practice at our local hospitals. Is there another secret memo? :idk:

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-10-13 10:48 a.m.

Some interesting similarities between long covid and chronic fatigue syndrome.

For example, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32507-6

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-10-13 11:23 a.m.

I can easily see how that memo could be interpreted that way. It isn’t secret, it’s the one linked there. And again, it’s also reasonable to have someone come in from a car accident have Covid listed on the death certificate just as it’s also quite a bit silly. Turns out dying is a lot easier than quantifying the reason for the death.

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2022-10-13 11:31 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="officermayo" post_id="190858" time="1665665346" user_id="12380">

A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.[/quote]

These stories appear to be mostly "fake news." Both referenced CDC guidelines in this thread (by timothy42b and Robcat2075) provide no such "direction." Certainly not the practice at our local hospitals. Is there another secret memo? :idk:
</QUOTE>
No, not fake. Came from a hospital CEO with a PhD in pandemic policies.

Also note that such directives are not part of "official policy".

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2022-10-13 11:34 a.m.

[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="officermayo" post_id="190858" time="1665665346" user_id="12380">
A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.[/quote]

I can't find any reporting on such a memo. Is there some? Can your friend produce that memo? It wouldn't be a secret document, not after it got sent to every hospital in the country.

Here is the actual CDC guidance on reporting causes of death:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding ... orting.htm">https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding-and-reporting.htm</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>

Doubt me all you want. I know I'm telling the truth.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-10-13 12:57 p.m.

As someone who has done research utilizing those data, that would be a good thing regardless if it’s true or not. As I noted, sometimes the omissions from such certificates was puzzling. And it’s very easy to filter extraneous info out but obviously not possible to put it in if it isn’t on the certificate.

If the implication is that the numbers of deaths would be inflated, that’s possibly true but that’s also true of any single factor study and Covid shouldn’t be treated differently. We could look at any number of diseases that are present at point of death and paint a very different picture for each of them (obesity, diabetes, so on and so forth) such that it makes each individual disease look like it is worse than it is in terms of mortality.

But most studies I was involved with were multivariate. (If we know you have some assortment of comorbidities and certain physical characteristics can we predict X where X is mortality, another comorbidity, etc). So looking at Death certificates in this case, you’d statistically look at the constellation of problems that someone had to determine morbidity.

In other words, if someone just came in from a car crash and had no comorbidities is different from someone who had a car crash and the flu who is, in turn, different from someone who was in a car crash and had The flu and diabetes etc etc. In turn, this study might influence how the medical profession treats someone when they come in with a car accident.

So seems like good policy to me so that researchers can get complete data on the complete picture of the person who passed. But like any other data, it can be tortured and abused in such a way it paints a picture that is unrepresentative of reality. Due diligence is always necessary.

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2022-10-13 1:33 p.m.

[quote="officermayo"]<QUOTE author="DougHulme" post_id="177875" time="1651686685" user_id="3157">
Interesting... I dont have enough knowledge to dispute the UK stats but I do know that anyone who dies of anything within a month of catching covid is recorded as death by covid so that includes all cancer patients, heart attacks, sepsis, dementia - you name it and thats not to mention the good old winter flu which seems to have entirely disapeared as a cause of death. Is that the same in the US? It just seems to my simple and largely naive brain that that might completely skew the real figures as many of these people would have, sadly, died anyway... just thinking out loud[/quote]

A close friend is the administrator of a hospital system in another state. He told me the CDC sent memos directing that that any patient who has Covid at death (no matter what the actual cause of death) were to be listed as dying from Covid. The same day he spoke to me there was a murder victim and a auto crash patient who died from their injuries. Both were listed among the Covid deaths.
</QUOTE>
Yeah well my uncle who works at Nintendo says that's not true

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2022-10-13 1:43 p.m.

[quote="spencercarran"]

Yeah well my uncle who works at Nintendo says that's not true[/quote]

Don't know if this is common knowledge today, but it's possible to disagree with someone without being a jerk.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2022-10-13 1:48 p.m.

So is the message here that Covid isn't real; that long Covid is a myth; that some people aren't really getting sick from this devious virus; that not very many folks are actually dying from the consequences, complications, and sequelae of Covid; that we shouldn't be taking any precautions like wearing masks or getting vaccinated? I'm confused. :idk:

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2022-10-13 2:09 p.m.

[quote="officermayo"]<QUOTE author="spencercarran" post_id="190889" time="1665682402" user_id="10390">

Yeah well my uncle who works at Nintendo says that's not true[/quote]

Don't know if this is common knowledge today, but it's possible to disagree with someone without being a jerk.
</QUOTE>

Why should I feign respect for obvious lies? I met you with the derision you earned.

officermayo · by **officermayo** » 2022-10-13 2:20 p.m.

I cannot believe that I'm being derided for this.

I could understand if someone simply disagreed, but to call me a liar?

The information I imparted came from a degreed medical professional I've known for 50 years who has no reason to lie to me. Disagree all you want, but to cast aspersions my way is just kneejerk political smack talk. As I said before I know what I've said is the truth and I bid the same to you as I do the horse you rode in on.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-10-13 2:26 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]So is the message here that Covid isn't real; that long Covid is a myth; that some people aren't really getting sick from this devious virus; that not very many folks are actually dying from the consequences, complications, and sequelae of Covid; that we shouldn't be taking any precautions like wearing masks or getting vaccinated? I'm confused. :idk:[/quote]

Though there are some doubters, COVID is real. The latest version is a lot less deadly than the earlier ones were; but also much easier to catch.

Long COVID was identified a year or so ago when people who had COVID didn't seem to recover fully. In fact, a friend of mine died from Long COVID.

Recently it was discovered that there are a lot of similarities between Long COVID and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. From what I gather they haven't determined that CFS is Long COVID but there are possibly some identical mechanisms that can be addressed. I don't think there is a cure for CFS either. Maybe this observation will find a cure for both.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2022-10-13 2:38 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]So is the message here that Covid isn't real; that long Covid is a myth; that some people aren't really getting sick from this devious virus; that not very many folks are actually dying from the consequences, complications, and sequelae of Covid; that we shouldn't be taking any precautions like wearing masks or getting vaccinated? I'm confused. :idk:[/quote]

No, the message here is that you have to pay attention to the source of statistics. People of any persuasion can use them to forward any agenda.

Also, it's possible for an answer to be complicated, but that's another thing that has been lost in the last couple of decades. A true answer to any technical question is almost always more complex than black or white.

I totally believe that government agencies may be trying to do the right thing (show that death can have multiple contributing factors), but the result is that some people are using the statistics to increase the alarm that more people are dying from a specific cause. Plus, how the reported results are presented or quoted can be problematic even if the original data is perfect.

In case there's any confusion, I'm calling both sides liars and cheats. We should approach all statistics with skepticism. Unless you were there for the whole process and know the situation intimately, you don't really have any way of being positive that the results are being biased by this story or that story or interpreted with a particular view in mind. You're not going to prove anything with statistics, just show another potentially prejudiced data set.

Statistics generally lack context. There is a set of extenuating circumstances behind every hashmark on a survey. I can't attest to the "truth" behind any set of statistics, all I know is my own experience. Some people mock personal stories, but these are the context that you never see with numbers. Any set of data can be used to foist lies on the gullible in the name of unquestionable truth.

Personally, I have taken all shots and boosters, and I avoid groups of people. Unless it's music related, then I take my chances. I haven't had covid (yet) and I want to avoid it, although I know many people who have had it and even died from it (early on). I have friends that are way more careful than I am, but also some friends who are deniers. I talked to a guy who hasn't been out to eat in over 2 years. I think that's crazy. You'd go insane by isolating that much. But then I work at home and only go out for an occasional date night, rehearsals/gigs, or shopping. And I never wear a mask unless I go into a medical facility that requires it. I don't know what label you want to pin on that, but to me, it's a balanced response. Being sensible and avoiding unnecessary risk when I can, but also not allowing paranoia to make me crazy and keep me from living my life. My "not eating out" friend has several health issues that I don't have, and covid might well be a death sentence for him. My anti-vax friend has had the illness, luckily a mild case. Both of their decisions make sense from their point of view, but I don't agree with either.

Most people I know aren't at either extreme. They're in the middle. Which is where I am. I think people at both ends are crazy. So far I'm not dead from any combination of factors, and I'm not crazy from isolation. Just be careful whose BS you listen to. Make up your own mind. And again incase it isn't clear, I believe @officermayo's story, and I think it backs up what I'm saying - don't believe every set of numbers being claimed as irrefutable proof of anything.

brumpone · by **brumpone** » 2022-10-14 6:22 a.m.

My simple right-pondian brain is struggling to understand the controversy around the statistics. In BBC reporting on UK COVID fatalities, every time the number was mentioned the news anchor would cite the clarification that the figure referred to ‘people who died for any reason who had tested positive for COVID in the last 28 days’. Some people dying with but not from COVID being included in the UK figures was right there in the open, but my very inexpert guess would be that case counts in the UK where COVID was not a factor would be comparatively low, or in other words the official figures are probably a slight overestimate, but not by much.

The policies (official and unofficial), circumstances and facts in other countries clearly vary.

My wife had COVID in February. We’ve no idea how I didn’t catch it, as I normally get everything going, but she was ill for 3 weeks. Even when the viral infection had cleared up she had some respiratory difficulty for nearly 3 months. The NHS walk-in centre described it as Long COVID, although it does not seem to resemble the long term debilitating effects that others reporting Long COVID suffer.

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2022-10-14 7:33 a.m.

Unfortunately, the statistics compiled in the US were much more diffused and not centrally standardized, controlled or dictated.

For amusement, listen to this for a story of some journalists who were dismayed to discover that their combing of local and state data ended up being what the administration was reporting out as the ‘official’ counts. ~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text=" https://99percentinvisible.org/episode ... e-of-data/"> https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pandemic-tracking-and-the-future-of-data/</LINK_TEXT>

Cheers,

Andy

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2022-10-14 8:15 a.m.

Brumpone...

but my very inexpert guess would be that case counts in the UK where COVID was not a factor would be comparatively low, or in other words the official figures are probably a slight overestimate, but not by much.

I'm not so sure on that... judging by my own experience I know 8 people that died during the 2 year period of lock downs. 6 were clearly not related to Covid 1 definitely was the last one was debatable. All were recorded as Covid deaths. I reason that if in my own small world with that small experience was replicated nationwide the actual death toll would be considerably lower than the national statistics. I know thats almost anecdotal and there is no statistical justification to apply that theory nationally but it sure is enough for me to be very sceptical on those UK final figures. I also noted that almost no one died of 'winter flu' during that period whereas in 2019 over 20,000 did - what happened to winter flu di it just go away? I cant accept the argument that Covid measures cured it, I'm sure it got lumped in with Covid which would have been difficult to differentiate between anyway.... Doug

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-10-14 8:50 a.m.

I was following an English site where a Doctor of Nursing (can't recall his name) was summarizing the world progress of COVID. In the UK there was a statistic called "Excess Deaths" where he used history to predict the number of people who would die and then compared the total death count and considered the balance to be COVID deaths. The statistic followed the apparent course of the disease and was a good way to get around this COVID death inflation. In fact, COVID did increase the overall death toll, and to a large amount. Currently the Omicron variant is a lot less deadly than the earlier ones so COVID and any lasting effects are less severe. I doubt we will ever be totally free of this disease, much like we are not free of flu or the common cold. The vaccines have done a pretty good job of reducing the severity of the peak. We were on the verge of a 1918 "Spanish" flu like pandemic. Incidentally, in 1918 there were deniers and mask refusers as well.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-10-14 8:52 a.m.

In my own experience, all that time of mask wearing and social distancing pretty much eliminated flu, colds and even allergies.

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2022-10-14 9:26 a.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]In my own experience, all that time of mask wearing and social distancing pretty much eliminated flu, colds and even allergies.[/quote]

Yes. Three people in my household, and we had no colds or flus over two years. Even allergies were down, which doesn't seem to follow. Pollen should go through the cloth masks we used until N95 was available. Maybe there is some interaction.

We did all get Covid, but not until the combination of the latest variant and the lack of distancing as everything opened up.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-10-14 10:55 a.m.

[quote="timothy42b"]Even allergies were down, which doesn't seem to follow. Pollen should go through the cloth masks we used until N95 was available.[/quote]
Pollen grains are pretty large (10-100 microns); a two-layer cloth mask made from fabric with a high thread count should stop a lot of pollen.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-10-14 8:21 p.m.

I can totally confirm that. Been wearing N95 during allergy season for years before Covid. Whatever it is that I’m allergic to gets filtered out very handily with one of those.

I think some of the cold and flu reductions were very much aided by certain institutions finally having sane attendance requirements. When I was in high school, we had this insane policy that if you only had like 3 absences (even with doctors note) you could skip finals for the semester. So people would come in obviously horrifically sick to avoid taking finals. In turn, they’d get everyone around them sick. Every school that im aware of for the last two years replaced all such policies and also did at least partial online schooling so you didn’t have to miss anything.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2022-10-22 2:19 a.m.

Our principal just let me know she has tested positive for COVID and can’t make tomorrow night’s concert (Bruch, Prokovief).

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2022-10-22 8:43 a.m.

I am just recovering from a week with COVID. I think the vax helped me a lot -- this was my first time with it. Lost my sense of smell. What a horrible thing to catch.

I can attest that masks did nothing to stop the Japanese spruce and cypress pollen this year. That stuff is like death. Even with N95, it just goes into your eyes, and then it's somehow riddled through your body.

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