step up .525 bores

Diana6 · 2018-10-10 3:57 p.m.

I believe these are all intermediate/step up .525 trombones.

Blessing B-78

Besson 737f

Yamaha 356R dual bore .500-.525

They seem to be good value trombones...looking to purchase a med. bore for a High School student.

Which would you choose?

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2018-10-10 4:06 p.m.

It appears that you are right about the size.

From Google:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.playgroundmusiccenter.com/p ... -case.aspx">https://www.playgroundmusiccenter.com/p-56643-besson-737-f-trombone-with-case.aspx</LINK_TEXT>

If in good condition, the Yamaha 356R would be preferable to a Besson.

pompatus · by **pompatus** » 2018-10-10 4:11 p.m.

Of the three, the Yamaha will easily be the most consistent.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2018-10-10 4:17 p.m.

[quote="pompatus"]Of the three, the Yamaha will easily be the most consistent.[/quote]

:good:

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-10 4:32 p.m.

Should I look for any others besides the Yamaha 356R?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-10-10 4:43 p.m.

[quote="Diana6"]Should I look for any others besides the Yamaha 356R?[/quote]

Benge 175

Bach TB-200 or Omega

Yamaha 646 is not considered "Intermediate" but its been supplanted by at least two newer models and usually goes for a good price.

Reynolds Onyx is a silver plated horn with a black coating.

hyperbolica · 2018-10-10 4:47 p.m.

You might also look at the King 607 and 608. You can find a fair number of those used. And there's a Bach 200 something that's also a .525 bore. The Kanstul is relatively rare. You might even throw the Bach 36b in there, and the JP 231. Also don't forget the Wessex horn.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2018-10-10 4:57 p.m.

I would choose the Yamaha. Also a Yamaha 446 - easier to find and less expensive than the 646.

Geordie · by **Geordie** » 2018-10-10 7:19 p.m.

In terms of additional choices in this size look at used King 3B+ Comes with or without F attachment. As usual, the actual choice will be influenced by the type of repertoire, but 3B+ is, in my experience, a good all-rounder.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-10-10 7:25 p.m.

I love my 356.

LeoInFL · by **LeoInFL** » 2018-10-10 7:47 p.m.

Many years ago I had a Getzen 1025F. Great horn! A little hard to find though.

pedrombon · by **pedrombon** » 2018-10-10 8:10 p.m.

I own a 356 (at this time it's lent to my 13-year-old nephew). It is a great horn, beautiful and very versatile.

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-11 10:54 a.m.

There seems to be 356R's around to choose from. The 3B+, Benge 175, Getzen 1025f, are pretty difficult to find and more expensive I believe. I have a small budget, so I think the Yam 356R might be our best bet. Yam 446 is usually above my price range. Thanks all.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2018-10-11 12:01 p.m.

[quote="Diana6"]There seems to be 356R's around to choose from. The 3B+, Benge 175, Getzen 1025f, are pretty difficult to find and more expensive I believe. I have a small budget, so I think the Yam 356R might be our best bet. Yam 446 is usually above my price range. Thanks all.[/quote]

You are exactly right. Go for it. They are nice horns and can be bargains!

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-12 10:54 a.m.

I have a few more questions before I feel comfortable purchasing another trombone.

The 356R is a .500 - .525 dual bore. How does it compare to trombones that are straight bore .525? My son's band director wants him to get a 36B, so I'm wondering if the 356R is close enough in regards to the sound.

Also, is the 356R going to be different enough from my son's Olds Special to make a difference for Concert Band? Could he also use it for jazz band or is the Special better for jazz?

bimmerman · by **bimmerman** » 2018-10-12 11:27 a.m.

I used my 356R for everything when I was in school. It's a great horn and definitely can do the job-- I wish I hadn't sold it.

However, if a good 36B crops up, I'd probably pick that instead.

Are you able to take your son and have him try the 356R and/or a 36B?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-10-12 11:32 a.m.

What's the fetish with the 36B? Or did he just say "like a 36B"? A 36B is a professional grade horn in medium bore. You originally talked about "step--up" and listed a number of trombones considered "step-up" (although a good one can last a lifetime -- provided you aren't going to audition for a top quality orchestra like the Cleveland Orchestra).

If "like a 36B" there are lots of alternatives that are (in my mind) just as good:

Benge 175F

Conn 79H

Holton TR-160

King 2125F (3B Plus with F)

Yamaha 646, 684, 640

If you are able to consider a Medium Bore with F that isn't a Pro horn:

Bach TB-200 or Omega

Blessing B-78

King 607, 608

Yamaha 446

Note that there are probably some other models I've missed\

There are other models that would work just as well, like the Yamaha 356, Kanstul (I forget the number -- 760?), Olds Recording with F, Olds Superstar, Reynolds Onyx, Holton TR-680, and many others. Having a teacher or other good player help in selecting an instrument can help.

Another thing to consider is what he wants. If he's planning on pursuing a Music degree in college, don't buy a Medium -- go large bore (completely different set of suggestions then). A large bore would last him into college (at which time he should be able to decide for himself what kind of trombone he wants/needs).

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-12 12:02 p.m.

I don't think he can try out the 356's I'm looking at right now.

It's the band director who suggested a 36 or 42. I'm not willing to pay for a pro horn, so I'm trying to find something, like a step up, that will work for multiple settings, relatively easy/fun to play, and sounds good.

He is a small kid, so that's another reason I am thinking medium instead of large bore.

Frankly, I'm mad that the School is not providing a decent instrument for him.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-10-12 12:14 p.m.

School budgets are pretty tight and there may not be money in the Band program for personal instruments.

Don't let small fool you. I know a 100 pound lady who can outblow me on a bass trombone. She's a fantastic player.

I suspect the Band Director won't know the difference as long as you buy something with an F-attachment.

I would suggest contacting DJ Kennedy and have him look into what his inventory looks like. He has a house full (literally) of good used trombones at very good prices. That would be your best bang for the buck. I know he's registered on this Site, but he's more active on the Trombone Forum Facebook page.

FeelMyRath · by **FeelMyRath** » 2018-10-12 2:45 p.m.

The 356 is a great instrument. I sold mine not long after buying my Rath R4F and I do miss it these days, although I wouldn't swap back!

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-13 5:55 p.m.

I found a nice 356R for a really good price. It comes with a 7C MP, but I have seen that a Yamaha 48 is often paired with it. My son plays his Special with a 3C and an Ambassador with a 12C for marching.

Would a 7C would work well with a 356R for a 14 year old?

FeelMyRath · by **FeelMyRath** » 2018-10-13 6:26 p.m.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2018-10-14 12:02 a.m.

[quote="Diana6"]Would a 7C would work well with a 356R for a 14 year old?[/quote]

A 7C should work just fine with a Yamaha 356R. This is a good combination, that your son should acclimate to quickly - and then concentrate on making music, and not worry too much about equipment!

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-14 10:13 a.m.

A 7C should work just fine with a Yamaha 356R. This is a good combination, that your son should acclimate to quickly - and then concentrate on making music, and not worry too much about equipment!

[/quote]

Agreed...This is a surprise gift for my son. He is all about music and knows nothing about equipment.

Mom is the conscientious consumer. <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-10-14 10:27 a.m.

Does he have a private instructor? If so, I would work with that person to decide on a mouthpiece. Best wishes in your search.

bimmerman · by **bimmerman** » 2018-10-14 9:06 p.m.

I used a 7C with mine for years. Ended up not being the right size for me, ultimately, but it was absolutely fine.

edgrissom · by **edgrissom** » 2018-10-16 7:19 a.m.

The Getzen Capri 525 is a pretty nice horn that is not too expensive.

castrubone · by **castrubone** » 2018-10-16 8:12 a.m.

Conn 52H is a great horn. It’s a dual bore .525/.547 I believe.

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2018-10-17 9:55 p.m.

You are a good mom, Diane. ;)

I recall going through similar forum quests/google searches when I was hunting for horns for my own kids. Lot's of questions and concerns. Good luck and enjoy the experience. Frustrating as it may be at times, it is part of being a good parent.

(and while there are lots of good horns and choices, you will never go wrong with getting a Yamaha. Everything that company does, it does well.)

jawbone62 · by **jawbone62** » 2018-10-19 1:33 p.m.

Conn 52H is a versatile and underrated horn which i would really recommend and something of a bargain in my view. Great for blending in section work with smaller and larger horns and covers all the bases. Getzen 725 has similar dual bore .525/.547 set up and price i believe but Conn more refined and easier to play based on recent experience.

deanmccarty · by **deanmccarty** » 2018-10-20 8:18 a.m.

The Jupiter 1100F is a GREAT player... it plays better than the Conn 52H and Blessing 78H... the Getzen 1036 is a fantastic instrument. Either of these would be perfect.

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-21 2:45 p.m.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions.

Yesterday, I bought a really nice 356R in my low budget range. It came with a Bach 7C and a Yamaha 45C2. My son hasn't seen it yet as I bought it while on the road.

Does anyone know of a good website or video to help a student switch to an F attachment?

Also, I see that these F attachment do not have counterweights or a spot to place one. Is there a solution if you want to make it more balanced?

FeelMyRath · by **FeelMyRath** » 2018-10-21 5:50 p.m.

Congrats! The 356 is really well balanced so doesn't need a counterweight IMO. If your son really finds he needs one, the Rath detachable counterweight may be a good option. The amount of weight on it can also be adjusted, although they aren't cheap.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-10-21 7:03 p.m.

I learned F-attachment from a book called "F-attachment and Bass Trombone by Alan Ostrander. It's an oldie but a goodie. There are newer ones, but you need a basic book at first after which he can graduate to something more detailed.

Newbies on the F-attachment sometimes develop a habit of using the valve for all C's and B's; even when it means moving the slide as much as if they didn't have one. The F-attachment is a convenience and a range extender and should be treated as such.

Good luck to him with it.

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-21 7:55 p.m.

Sounds good. I'll get the Ostrander book for him.

The 356R does feel heavy up front to me, but I'm just comparing it to a small bore straight horn that has a counterweight. I don't know how you guys play the really heavy trombones with the awkward hand hold areas. Yikes.

The Rath detachable weight would be nice, but... it costs more than the trombone. lol!

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-10-21 9:04 p.m.

I just had a counterweight added to my 356. Parts + labor was ~$80, but I already had a counterweight lying around. I might have another one... if I can remember to dig it up. Your tech can source the parts from Yamaha very easily though. I used an OE Thayer brace and made mine detachable so that isn't necessary and will lower cost if you don't by a few bucks too.

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-21 9:53 p.m.

Matt, if possible, could you post a picture sometime?

Did it require the weight of the brace and the counterweight to give you the balance that you wanted?

Does Yamaha also sell braces like Thayer?

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-10-21 10:44 p.m.

[quote="Diana6"]Matt, if possible, could you post a picture sometime?

Did it require the weight of the brace and the counterweight to give you the balance that you wanted?

Does Yamaha also sell braces like Thayer?[/quote]

At the moment, no, its in the shop getting something custom done to it. But that should be done sometime this week!

Yeah, Yamaha will sell the parts, I Just had some pares lying around and they are long enough. Your tech probably has something that would be sufficient lying around too but you'll have to make sure its thick enough to accept whatever coutnerweight you want to use.

skaskaster · by **skaskaster** » 2018-10-24 8:40 a.m.

Check also the getzen eterna 725 model. Great horn with f attachment.

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2018-10-25 2:16 p.m.

Diane,

if you want to try a counter weight, but don't want to spend that much on what may prove to be either a temporary need or no need at all, you could just get some flexible lead weights (like golfers or fishermen might use). You could just wrap or stick the weights anywhere you want (bottom of tuning slide would be inconspicuous).

<LINK_TEXT text="https://smile.amazon.com/VTR-Adhesive-B ... ef=sr_1_12">https://smile.amazon.com/VTR-Adhesive-Backed-Wheel-Weights/dp/B00ZMD8SDG?keywords=lead+weights&qid=1540491342&sr=8-12&ref=sr_1_12</LINK_TEXT>

<LINK_TEXT text="https://smile.amazon.com/Bullet-Weights ... ref=sr_1_7">https://smile.amazon.com/Bullet-Weights-1-Pound-Fishing-4-Inch/dp/B003OCAFEC?keywords=lead+weights&qid=1540491301&sr=8-7&ref=sr_1_7</LINK_TEXT>

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2018-10-25 2:49 p.m.

Here's a picture of the work he did. This one is ornamental and modular. Friend of mine out in the midwest who isn't a musician at all made it wanting to see how hard it would be. Says it took longer than he'd want but he has a 3D printer so we're working on something to make other ones out of that material instead. Obviously one that isn't modular and was just a weight would take a lot less labor & parts.

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2018-10-25 3:40 p.m.

Very cool Matt.

I think I would go with a trial flexible lead tape first or something similar. I used to use the lead tape on my tennis rackets. My son didn't mention the balance or weight at all, so maybe it's unnecessary. He loves it and it sounds really nice!

I brought the 356 to our tech and he said that the slide and bell are great. He wants to just work on the rotor and put new string on it. It is a bit clunky and loud.

He seems to like the Yamaha 45C2 mouthpiece better than the 7C. I'm not sure if he needs to just get used to the 7C or if the other one suits his face better? He did sound better on the 45C2.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2018-10-25 5:00 p.m.

I think most players would be fine with a 356 the way it is (without counterweight).

Diana6 · by **Diana6** » 2019-01-01 2:14 p.m.

I wanted to follow-up on this thread just to add some info. My son is playing really well on the 356R. The 7C MP that came with it is in pretty bad shape, and ended up not liking the Yam 45C2. After researching mouthpieces, I ended up buying a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs Whigham ET1.7 from a member on this site for him. Ed gave me good advice. It seems to suit my son very well... says it's very comfortable and he likes it a lot.

As far as the weight/balance of the 356R is concerned, my son uses an alternative type grip. I think his hands are smaller so he sort of just changed his grip to one that works for him. I still might try one of the grip aids for him or perhaps a counterweight.

Thanks for all the good advice guys.

CBO · by **CBO** » 2021-09-08 9:15 a.m.

Any thoughts on the Getzen 725 .525/.547 vs the 1036 which is .525. I have a 725 and 3047 and love both of them, sometimes even playing the 725 slide on the 3047 bell to brighten it up. The 725 is light and bright and I expect the 1036 will be similar but I'm most curious about how the dual bore slides will differ from the straight .525 slides. Any thoughts or experiences would be much appreciated.

quiethorn · by **quiethorn** » 2021-09-09 4:05 p.m.

Anyone know the slide width on the Yamaha 356?

This is the main thing I worry about with medium-bore horns. Some have nice wide slides (like a 36B), but others have pretty narrow slides. I started a thread a while back where we compiled a list of slide widths. If y'all have calipers and can add to that list, it'd help out.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... th#p136114">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18492&p=149757&hilit=slide+width#p136114</LINK_TEXT>

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2021-09-09 4:16 p.m.

[quote="quiethorn"]Anyone know the slide width on the Yamaha 356?

This is the main thing I worry about with medium-bore horns. Some have nice wide slides (like a 36B), but others have pretty narrow slides. I started a thread a while back where we compiled a list of slide widths. If y'all have calipers and can add to that list, it'd help out.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... th#p136114">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18492&p=149757&hilit=slide+width#p136114</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Whats the best way to measure? I just did center of tube to center of other and came up with 3.75".

quiethorn · by **quiethorn** » 2021-09-10 12:33 a.m.

[quote="Matt K"]<QUOTE author="quiethorn" post_id="157118" time="1631217903" user_id="177">
Anyone know the slide width on the Yamaha 356?

This is the main thing I worry about with medium-bore horns. Some have nice wide slides (like a 36B), but others have pretty narrow slides. I started a thread a while back where we compiled a list of slide widths. If y'all have calipers and can add to that list, it'd help out.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... th#p136114">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18492&p=149757&hilit=slide+width#p136114</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Whats the best way to measure? I just did center of tube to center of other and came up with 3.75".
</QUOTE>

I think the way we were measuring in that thread was the space between the inside of the slide tubes--basically th length of the brace on the handslide. But if you measured from the center of the tubes at 3.75", and we subtract half the distance of each slide tube to get to the inside edge, that's 3.2375", which seems a little off. That comes to about 82mm, which is a tad wider than a Bach 36 slide. Is the slide on the 356R really that wide? I assumed it'd be closer to whatever the YSL-354 slide is, but I've never played one.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2021-09-10 7:09 a.m.

I can check later today. Is definitely wider than the 354. It’s basically a646 with a 354 upper inner and outer to the best of my casual observation. Crook might be smaller bit I’m not sure. I’ll compare to my 646 today to o

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2021-09-10 11:13 a.m.

Just measured; it's 3 1/8" (3.125") or 79.375 mm for the 356 slide I have.

Incidentally, the 356 is not as small as people think it is. Its very much a "medium" bore style instrument. The tuning slide is identical to the 548 I have, well at least they are interchangeable. They might not literally be identical. Same with the 646/645 slide I have. I don't know if the taper is different but I don't really notice a difference when I swap them out. The throat on the bell is larger than the Shires I have, although not by much. With some judicious buffing, I might be able to fit the Yamaha slide in the Shires receiver. It is narrower though, by a small amount.

THe bell itself is very Bach 36 like, although without the soldered bell bead. A bit on the heavy side too. A King 3B+ is likely to be substantially brighter than it even though it has a larger upper slide tube. But I don't have one to compare. The valve, as someone else measured awhile ago for me, is 547 though, so a touch smaller than the 36 valve, but possibly without the weird things Bach did with chokepoints etc.

The 356 slide on my YSL548 is really nice. A tad heavier/more covered than I'd prefer. But certainly a wonderful medium bore style instrument for someone looking for something lighter than a large bore but perhaps not as light as a small bore instrument.

quiethorn · by **quiethorn** » 2021-09-10 3:23 p.m.

[quote="Matt K"]Just measured; it's 3 1/8" (3.125") or 79.375 mm for the 356 slide I have.

Incidentally, the 356 is not as small as people think it is. Its very much a "medium" bore style instrument. The tuning slide is identical to the 548 I have, well at least they are interchangeable. They might not literally be identical. Same with the 646/645 slide I have. I don't know if the taper is different but I don't really notice a difference when I swap them out. The throat on the bell is larger than the Shires I have, although not by much. With some judicious buffing, I might be able to fit the Yamaha slide in the Shires receiver. It is narrower though, by a small amount.

THe bell itself is very Bach 36 like, although without the soldered bell bead. A bit on the heavy side too. A King 3B+ is likely to be substantially brighter than it even though it has a larger upper slide tube. But I don't have one to compare. The valve, as someone else measured awhile ago for me, is 547 though, so a touch smaller than the 36 valve, but possibly without the weird things Bach did with chokepoints etc.

The 356 slide on my YSL548 is really nice. A tad heavier/more covered than I'd prefer. But certainly a wonderful medium bore style instrument for someone looking for something lighter than a large bore but perhaps not as light as a small bore instrument.[/quote]

This is awesome info. Thanks a lot. I'm perpetually in the market for a .525 (or in this case, .500/.525) horn. I don't have the money, time or space to be trying stuff out constantly, so getting good info like this is much appreciated. I always assumed the 356 was basically a 354 with an F-attachment and dual-bore slide.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2021-09-10 3:44 p.m.

Yeah I kind of wish it were. I think it would be a good F small F attachment contender for the 3BF which is really the only stock horn I’m aware of with F attachment for that size.

I’m actually selling my 646 slide and the 356 bell. Feel free to pm me and I can get you the details pics etc. I have one other person who might be interested too that I have to respond to.

I could possibly be convinced to sell the 356 slide too… I quite like the 3BF I’ve found. Have some other assorted medium bore parts too.

JLivi · by **JLivi** » 2021-09-10 3:51 p.m.

[quote="quiethorn"]This is awesome info. Thanks a lot. I'm perpetually in the market for a .525 (or in this case, .500/.525) horn. I don't have the money, time or space to be trying stuff out constantly, so getting good info like this is much appreciated. I always assumed the 356 was basically a 354 with an F-attachment and dual-bore slide.[/quote]
I know the Yamaha 356 has a good rep on this forum. I finally got the chance to try one out at a local music store. In my opinion this store has it over priced at $1000, but man can that horn play. I've played medium bore horns that play bigger than this one, but I was impressed with it. I don't have a use for it, but if I was looking for a budget horn with a valve, this is definitely one that would be at the top of my list. I only played it for about 10 minutes, so I didn't get a true feel for the horn.

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2021-09-10 4:04 p.m.

[quote="Matt K"]the 3BF which is really the only stock horn I’m aware of with F attachment for that size[/quote]

FWIW <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.kuehnl-hoyer.de/produkt/b-f ... ier-512-f/">https://www.kuehnl-hoyer.de/produkt/b-f-tenorposaune-bart-van-lier-512-f/</LINK_TEXT>

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2021-09-10 4:25 p.m.

Ooh interesting. If I can ever go out in public again to an ATW or ITF I'll have to see if anyone has one on display. The Olds... not ambassador (or is it?) that had a 500/.510 or something weird is also on my list of things to try at some point.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-09-10 4:51 p.m.

[quote="Matt K"]The Olds... not ambassador (or is it?) that had a 500/.510 or something weird is also on my list of things to try at some point.[/quote]

You're thinking of an Olds Recording R20 with F-attachment. 0.495"/0.510" dual bore with "duo-octagonal" (16-sided) slides. Made until about the end of Olds production in Fullerton, CA in 1979. If in good condition, these are very nice trombones!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2021-09-10 7:09 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="Matt K" post_id="157210" time="1631305554" user_id="48">
The Olds... not ambassador (or is it?) that had a 500/.510 or something weird is also on my list of things to try at some point.[/quote]

You're thinking of an Olds Recording R20 with F-attachment. 0.495"/0.510" dual bore with "duo-octagonal" (16-sided) slides. Made until about the end of Olds production in Fullerton, CA in 1979. If in good condition, these are very nice trombones!
</QUOTE>

There is also the Ambassador A-20 and the SuperStar. Both with similar slides to the R-20. SuperStar was the intermediate.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2021-09-10 7:41 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]There is also the Ambassador A-20 and the SuperStar. Both with similar slides to the R-20. SuperStar was the intermediate.[/quote]

Bruce is, of course, right. The Olds Ambassador A20 and Superstar V20 were both F-attachment trombones with 0.495"/0.510" dual-bore cylindrical slides (which Olds termed "large-bore"). I should have known this – my first trombone, in 8th grade, was an Ambassador A20! Only the Recording had duo-octagonal inner slides.

MusicParkRidge · by **MusicParkRidge** » 2022-09-10 3:47 p.m.

I realize that I'm arriving late to this party, but:

1. An important consideration for me is where I put my left thumb. I have great difficulty if the thumb is NOT around the bell brace, as in the King horns and only a few others.

2. I'm seeing a "Besson 737 USA" model on eBay, and I swear that it's a twin of a King 607. Is it possible that these are the same horn??

-John S.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2022-09-10 3:57 p.m.

[quote="MusicParkRidge"]I realize that I'm arriving late to this party, but:

2. I'm seeing a "Besson 737 USA" model on eBay, and I swear that it's a twin of a King 607. Is it possible that these are the same horn??

-John S.[/quote]

Yup, that's 100% a King. Same case even. Very good horns btw, I just sold my 607 but ended up picking up a 608 (same thing with a rose bell) a day later!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-09-10 4:21 p.m.

If the Besson deal falls through, some other horns that may meet your ergonomic needs:

Holton TR-150 or TR-680 (TR-680 is a flat-wrap and won't make an E pull; TR-150 is more conventional and you can pull the attachment to E)

older King 4B and 5B, all King 3B or 3B Plus with F (2125F).

There are lots of devices to make a more conventional F-attachment trombone work like you need. The Rest Bar and Bullet Brace come to mind.

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