Conn valve trombone

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 4:10 a.m.

I found this and the guy selling it can't seem to really tell me anything. Anyone got anything here?

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2022-06-03 7:54 a.m.

It's old. Probably 20's or earlier, guessing by the ferrule on the J bend to flare. May be too early for a model #, though it should have a serial number on it in several places.

Cheers,

Andy

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 10:28 a.m.

More photos. I can't make out the 3rd digit in the serial number.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-06-03 11:21 a.m.

It's a "Union Label" era instrument. Serial number dates to 1911-1912 (probably closer to 1912), which is consistent with the Union Label. This is before model numbers (1919). Probably similar to the 5G, but no guarantees.

Big question is whether it's High Pitch or Low Pitch. If it's High Pitch you will need a replacement crook to play in tune (unless you like playing Trombone in B natural).

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 11:34 a.m.

I really just want the valves. My other question would be can you pair it with another bell?

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-06-03 1:41 p.m.

I have a little later one that looks nearly identical but it's an Eb alto.

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2022-06-03 2:24 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]It's a "Union Label" era instrument. Serial number dates to 1911-1912 (probably closer to 1912), which is consistent with the Union Label. This is before model numbers (1919). Probably similar to the 5G, but no guarantees.

Big question is whether it's High Pitch or Low Pitch. If it's High Pitch you will need a replacement crook to play in tune (unless you like playing Trombone in B natural).[/quote]

It's got both slides in the case, so it is a High and Low pitch instrument.

I am really curious what you would think the valves would be good for... they are 100+ years old. Even good valves from then are fun and nice... but they aren't great material for a Franken horn.

I'd be more tempted to build a slide for it (depending on the actual size of the bell section).

Cheers,

Andy

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-06-03 3:34 p.m.

[quote="elmsandr"][...

I'd be more tempted to build a slide for it (depending on the actual size of the bell section).

Cheers,

Andy[/quote]

You'd have to make a TIS slide. Given the way it's constructed you might actually be able to get a Rath R1/R2/R10 TIS slide to fit. Still, a setup like that with a TIS slide will feel VERY nose-heavy without a large counterweight.

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 5:09 p.m.

I'm pretty sure the current owner doesn't know much about it.

The bell section doesn't interest me much. I would like to find a set of valves if I could use it with one of the current horns I have: 100H and Liberty.

modelerdc · 2022-06-03 5:31 p.m.

I wouldn't alter the original parts, but I wouldn't cost too much to come up with an extra Conn Bell, 6H, 77H, or maybe an 18H and have the bell altered to fit the valve section. I have a modern Conn 5G valve section and it fits all the modern small bore Conns I have, 6H, 48H, 77H, of which I like the 6H bell the best. Also check the valve section bore, it might be very small, something to consider. I once had a very cheap "jinbao" vavle bone and the valve section worked pretty well. It might be cheaper to buy one of those and have it altered to fit your modern bell section if you can't find a Conn 5G valve section. I still think that the modern Conn valve section would be best if you can find one at a good price.

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2022-06-03 7:01 p.m.

.500" bore.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://emuseum.nmmusd.org/objects/5452 ... high-pitch">https://emuseum.nmmusd.org/objects/5452/tenor-valve-trombone-bflat-high-pitch</LINK_TEXT>

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 7:45 p.m.

Well, that's helpful. It's a 500 bore. I wouldn't imagine it's all that different from a 5G.

modelerdc · by **modelerdc** » 2022-06-03 8:13 p.m.

Yes, .500 is the same bore as the modern Conn 5G valve section. It would be interesting to find out if it plays better with a modern bell section of with the original one. FWIW the horn you have pictured doesn't have bell tuning so it's in the valve section. The modern Conn 5G valve section can also be tuned in the valve section or in the bell section. Who knows what the lead pipe is like, but the 5G plays like it has about the same type of pipe has a regular 6H.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-06-03 9:02 p.m.

Probably no leadpipe at all.

And the slide to bell length ratio is likely very different from a modern design so don't expect it to be in the right pitch.

mcphatty00 · by **mcphatty00** » 2022-06-03 9:11 p.m.

That's too bad.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2022-06-04 1:38 a.m.

I agree with the posts above. I would steer clear of that horn. For valve trombones, stick with what you see better players using these days - Conn 5G, King 2B/3B, and maybe the Bach V16. I have a 5G valve section that I can put on my 6H or my 24H. Plays very well. And the King... well, it's the most widely played valve trombone today for a reason!

Iristone · by **Iristone** » 2022-06-07 10:47 p.m.

[quote="modelerdc"]I once had a very cheap "jinbao" vavle bone and the valve section worked pretty well. It might be cheaper to buy one of those and have it altered to fit your modern bell section if you can't find a Conn 5G valve section.[/quote]

I heard that's a .485" bore - as such might not fit a .500" instrument.

Does it come with a 3rd valve ring? I've seen one with one, and I'd presume it'd help with the intonation.

modelerdc · by **modelerdc** » 2022-06-08 4:15 p.m.

It's advertised as .500 bore, and having owned several vavle trombones that were .485 bore, the Conn is more open. As far as bells go, it seems all the modern small bore conn bells fit all the slides, no matter if they are .485 bore or .500 bore.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-06-08 6:13 p.m.

[quote="modelerdc"]It's advertised as .500 bore, and having owned several vavle trombones that were .485 bore, the Conn is more open. As far as bells go, it seems all the modern small bore conn bells fit all the slides, no matter if they are .485 bore or .500 bore.[/quote]

This one won't. Note that the end of the valve section (where it meets the bell section) has no taper and the bell section has a thumbscrew. This one attaches like a Rath. Without a taper, the valve section won't even friction fit any bell.

modelerdc · by **modelerdc** » 2022-06-08 7:23 p.m.

I think you're better off with a more modern instrument. In addition to the Conn, the Blessing and the Yamaha valve bones are .500 bore and similar in design and could easily be adapted to one of your Conn bells. Also, a good choice is the old Olds valve bone with a .515 bore, they play better than most valve bones.

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