Student Instrument advice
- rrghoulies
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Jul 19, 2022
New trombone mom seeking advice for purchasing an instrument for my son. I have an orchestra background, so buying brass is a new adventure for me. He starts beginning band in the fall and we have found two good options for purchase.
Yamaha YSL-548G with mouthpiece
Yamaha M1 no mouthpiece
I understand the M1 is definitely a student instrument, and the 548 is intermediate. Mouthpiece included isn't a deal breaker. The 548 is almost 3X the price of the M1.
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment BUT they also list the Yamaha YSL 354 as one of the acceptable models to rent. From cursory searching, I believe the M1 is the Japan made version of the YSL 354. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I want to purchase the 548 because I feel good about reselling if he doesn't make it past the first year and the price is right. My husband thinks the 548 is overkill. Son is definitely taking private lessons, too.
What would you do??
Yamaha YSL-548G with mouthpiece
Yamaha M1 no mouthpiece
I understand the M1 is definitely a student instrument, and the 548 is intermediate. Mouthpiece included isn't a deal breaker. The 548 is almost 3X the price of the M1.
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment BUT they also list the Yamaha YSL 354 as one of the acceptable models to rent. From cursory searching, I believe the M1 is the Japan made version of the YSL 354. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I want to purchase the 548 because I feel good about reselling if he doesn't make it past the first year and the price is right. My husband thinks the 548 is overkill. Son is definitely taking private lessons, too.
What would you do??
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
If you can get ahold of the private lesson teacher ask them what they prefer. Everything is a trade off. Those straight horns make good marching band and outdoor concert horns down the road. And they are damage tolerant. Some of these guys use 354’s for jazz. There isn’t a “right” answer. If you ask two music educators, expect three opinions.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Right now 548 is overkill. But in 2 years (or maybe less) you will want one or something like it.
We usually start out on small bore tenors like the Yamaha 354 (newer than M1), King 606, or Conn Director. That will be a challenge at first. When your son gets his feet wet and decides he really wants to play you will need something with the F-attachment. But maybe not the large bore of the 548; maybe a Medium Bore would be better (Bach TB-200 F; King 607, 608; Conn 50H; Yamaha 446, 646, 684, 640).
If it's an M1, check to see if there are bubbles (blisters) in the chrome plate on the inner slide -- this was a common problem with the 352 and early 354 models. If there are blisters or sharp-edged holes in the plating don't buy it.
We usually start out on small bore tenors like the Yamaha 354 (newer than M1), King 606, or Conn Director. That will be a challenge at first. When your son gets his feet wet and decides he really wants to play you will need something with the F-attachment. But maybe not the large bore of the 548; maybe a Medium Bore would be better (Bach TB-200 F; King 607, 608; Conn 50H; Yamaha 446, 646, 684, 640).
If it's an M1, check to see if there are bubbles (blisters) in the chrome plate on the inner slide -- this was a common problem with the 352 and early 354 models. If there are blisters or sharp-edged holes in the plating don't buy it.
- OneTon
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Nov 02, 2021
Bruce is giving you good advice. I didn’t realize a 548 is a large bore instrument.
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
The advice of a grey haired amateur:
What Bruce said. If the M1 is in good shape, it would be great to start on and can be kept for marching band and upper parts in jazz band later on if your son continues to play. In my opinion a large bore (.547) horn with a large shank mouthpiece like the 548 might discourage a beginner player as it is heavier and takes more air than a small bore (.500) horn with a small shank mouthpiece like the M1. I agree with Richard - get the advice of the private teacher. Good luck in your hunt!
What Bruce said. If the M1 is in good shape, it would be great to start on and can be kept for marching band and upper parts in jazz band later on if your son continues to play. In my opinion a large bore (.547) horn with a large shank mouthpiece like the 548 might discourage a beginner player as it is heavier and takes more air than a small bore (.500) horn with a small shank mouthpiece like the M1. I agree with Richard - get the advice of the private teacher. Good luck in your hunt!
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
The YSL548 is a really good horn. You can also get a 354 or M1 on eBay for as low as $100-200 if you want a small bore.
What age/grade is the student? That'll help make recommendations. The M1/354 is what I'd give to a 5th grader. The 548 is (probably) what I'd give to a high schooler. There are also some really good models that fall in between those that I might recommend at any age.
What age/grade is the student? That'll help make recommendations. The M1/354 is what I'd give to a 5th grader. The 548 is (probably) what I'd give to a high schooler. There are also some really good models that fall in between those that I might recommend at any age.
- sungfw
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="rrghoulies"]New trombone mom seeking advice for purchasing an instrument for my son. ... He starts beginning band in the fall … [snip]
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment[/quote]
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment[/quote]
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="sungfw"]<QUOTE author="rrghoulies" post_id="183859" time="1658331968" user_id="15495">
New trombone mom seeking advice for purchasing an instrument for my son. ... He starts beginning band in the fall … [snip]
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment[/quote]
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)
</QUOTE>
6th and 7th positions are a tough reach, especially for young kids. An F-attachment puts these in T1 and T2 which requires less arm.
Personally, I think this is BS and the kid should use an extension handle if his arms are too short.
New trombone mom seeking advice for purchasing an instrument for my son. ... He starts beginning band in the fall … [snip]
Recommendations from band director is to have an f-attachment[/quote]
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)
</QUOTE>
6th and 7th positions are a tough reach, especially for young kids. An F-attachment puts these in T1 and T2 which requires less arm.
Personally, I think this is BS and the kid should use an extension handle if his arms are too short.
- rrghoulies
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Jul 19, 2022
[quote="BGuttman"]
If it's an M1, check to see if there are bubbles (blisters) in the chrome plate on the inner slide -- this was a common problem with the 352 and early 354 models. If there are blisters or sharp-edged holes in the plating don't buy it.[/quote]
Thanks for this heads up, I checked the M1 and it's clean.
If it's an M1, check to see if there are bubbles (blisters) in the chrome plate on the inner slide -- this was a common problem with the 352 and early 354 models. If there are blisters or sharp-edged holes in the plating don't buy it.[/quote]
Thanks for this heads up, I checked the M1 and it's clean.
- rrghoulies
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Jul 19, 2022
[quote="Matt K"]The YSL548 is a really good horn. You can also get a 354 or M1 on eBay for as low as $100-200 if you want a small bore.
What age/grade is the student? That'll help make recommendations. The M1/354 is what I'd give to a 5th grader. The 548 is (probably) what I'd give to a high schooler. There are also some really good models that fall in between those that I might recommend at any age.[/quote]
We've got a 6th grader. I emailed his band director about our options and asked for his advice. Band director started with something similar to an M1, kept it for marching band, and upgraded to a nicer trombone with an f-attachment when he was a few years older.
We bought the M1, and are excited to see how he does in band. Thanks to everyone who answered, you were all super helpful and I learned a lot!
What age/grade is the student? That'll help make recommendations. The M1/354 is what I'd give to a 5th grader. The 548 is (probably) what I'd give to a high schooler. There are also some really good models that fall in between those that I might recommend at any age.[/quote]
We've got a 6th grader. I emailed his band director about our options and asked for his advice. Band director started with something similar to an M1, kept it for marching band, and upgraded to a nicer trombone with an f-attachment when he was a few years older.
We bought the M1, and are excited to see how he does in band. Thanks to everyone who answered, you were all super helpful and I learned a lot!
- dcslideman
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Mar 23, 2022
I am not a teacher, but I can't advise starting with a 548. Especially if we are assuming elementary age beginning band. It will be bulky and heavy and take a lot of air and may well be discouraging. It is a fine horn, and as you said will hold value if not abused. But, it would be a horn to grow into in high school probably.
- sungfw
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="sungfw" post_id="183876" time="1658339515" user_id="3533">
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)[/quote]
6th and 7th positions are a tough reach, especially for young kids. An F-attachment puts these in T1 and T2 which requires less arm.</QUOTE>
Less slide arm, yes; but at the cost of additional strain on the left hand and arm from the additional weight of the attachment and, for young players with smaller hands, stretching the hand to actuate the trigger (assuming they have sufficient hand strength to hold the horn securely and reach the trigger, much less actuate it, in the first place). Not to mention F-attachment horns are typically medium or large bore (the 3BF being an exception) and require more air and strength to play than small bore straight horns, making them less than ideal for beginners.
Absolutely.
:???: :???: :???:
Anyone else wondering why the heck the BD is recommending an F-attachment horn for a beginner? (I have my suspicions.)[/quote]
6th and 7th positions are a tough reach, especially for young kids. An F-attachment puts these in T1 and T2 which requires less arm.</QUOTE>
Less slide arm, yes; but at the cost of additional strain on the left hand and arm from the additional weight of the attachment and, for young players with smaller hands, stretching the hand to actuate the trigger (assuming they have sufficient hand strength to hold the horn securely and reach the trigger, much less actuate it, in the first place). Not to mention F-attachment horns are typically medium or large bore (the 3BF being an exception) and require more air and strength to play than small bore straight horns, making them less than ideal for beginners.
Personally, I think this is BS and the kid should use an extension handle if his arms are too short.
Absolutely.