Tuning slide inner not brazed

although · by **although** » 2022-08-03 12:10 p.m.

Hi all,

I've got a new-to-me Conn 8H. It's an Elkhart horn in user condition. Plays great, sounds great... But, the first time I pulled the tuning slide out a bit, the inner slide (on the neckpipe side) came out of the neckpipe rather than the tuning slide outer sliding off it (hopefully that makes sense). It's not stuck, I was able to pull the inner out of the tuning slide and put it back in the neckpipe brace without any trouble. It's just not brazed into place like it ought to be.

So, I suppose, the proper fix would be to have a tech solder it back into the neckpipe brace and then buff it out and relaquer it...

My question is: How egregious a sin would it be if I just epoxied it back into place?

Cheers!

mike

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2022-08-03 12:12 p.m.

I'd just get it soldered. It'll play better too.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-08-03 12:30 p.m.

Epoxy won't hold. Get it soldered. It won't be an expensive repair.

although · by **although** » 2022-08-03 12:31 p.m.

Lol, I take issue with your use of the word "just"... I could "just" glue it with just 20 minutes of effort and no cost. Alternately, I could drive it to a tech, twice, an hour each way. That's four hours of my time and at least $40 in gas alone. Then I could pay him, what? $100 to do the repair? I'm really liking the glue option at the moment :)

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-08-03 12:44 p.m.

You definitely do not want to use glue.

although · by **although** » 2022-08-03 1:01 p.m.

Yeah. My concern with glue is that, if some future tech needs to work on the horn. He might come across the glue joint and the only way to disassemble it is to destroy it. Chop off the tube and try to drill out the brace...

My glue-fu is strong. I feel confident that I could glue it and it would hold. I'm not convinced that a thin layer of epoxy between one joint (which currently has nothing but friction holding it) is going to change the sound. But, I don't like the idea of creating a headache and extra work for the next owner.

I reckon I'll bite the bullet and take it to a tech, but I'll be feeling pretty hard done by :(

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2022-08-03 1:22 p.m.

For high-quality, vintage horn if all that you need to put into it is $200, that's not too bad. These parts are pretty old and problems like this crop up over time.

OneTon · 2022-08-03 1:22 p.m.

The problem with epoxy is the manner in which the parts are assembled with the adhesive. After the epoxy is applied, sliding the tube into the fitting may remove some of the epoxy at the joint line. This may result in a void that weakens the joint or worst case scenario, causes leaks.

Solder is more tolerant of fit up tolerances, more flexible than most epoxies which can be brittle, higher strength in shear, and the solder process is repeatable and repairable.

I typically drive 3 hours each way (12 hours total) to access repair technicians for some tasks and avoid ham fisted box handlers. Be grateful that your drive is shorter and you are not obsessive compulsive.

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2022-08-03 1:43 p.m.

Don't glue. The joint needs to be cleaned and new solder applied.

You mentioned "brazed like it should be"... it shouldn't be brazed. That's a different process.

If you call ahead to many techs, this could be a while you wait repair if you schedule it. Heck, if you have a student horn to practice on first, this isn't a terrible one to do yourself with a torch. Just don't smoke the lacquer...

Don't glue. This isn't that hard to fix properly.

Andy

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2022-08-03 1:56 p.m.

It's a very simple repair that could easily be done while you wait. No relacquering needed. Call ahead, find out when they can do it on that basis.

(And stop thinking about epoxy...no tech deserves the surprise carcinogenic smouldering when it eventually needs to be repaired properly.)

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2022-08-03 2:08 p.m.

Whatever you do…….DO NOT GLUE IT! Two reasons: 1. It will not hold. 2. The removal of the epoxy can sometimes be very difficult. Thus, it could triple your expenses because the technician will like spend much more time removing the glue then doing a simple solder repair.

For the sake of technicians everywhere……please do not glue it!

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2022-08-03 3:08 p.m.

[quote="ithinknot"]It's a very simple repair that could easily be done while you wait.

(And stop thinking about epoxy...no tech deserves the surprise carcinogenic smouldering when it eventually needs to be repaired properly.)[/quote]

<EMOJI seq="261d" tseq="261d">☝️</EMOJI>

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2022-08-03 4:06 p.m.

Buy a propane torch, or even one of those little "cigar lighter" butane torches, tin/lead solder (not rosin core), liquid flux, emery cloth, and a small round wire brush to clean inside the tube, and do it yourself. I'll give you instructions if you want.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2022-08-04 10:39 a.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]Buy a propane torch, or even one of those little "cigar lighter" butane torches, tin/lead solder (not rosin core), liquid flux, emery cloth, and a small round wire brush to clean inside the tube, and do it yourself. I'll give you instructions if you want.[/quote] THIS. I was thinking it, but know very little about how hard it would actually be on brass, as my soldering experience is related to guitar electronics. However I do know that Epoxy can be a pain in the butt, and is a royal pain if things don't work right. If you don't heat it enough when soldering, you can just do it again, but you don't get that luxury with epoxy.

although · by **although** » 2022-08-04 3:13 p.m.

So, I took the horn to the tech this afternoon... I called ahead, and he said that he could probably fix it while I waited :) It took him five minutes to solder. He didn't damage the lacquer, and charged me $15 :D

So, I would just like to take this opportunity to thank you guys for the good advice! You guys are pretty great :)

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Tuning slide inner not brazed