King 3B year?

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 7:33 a.m.

Hello everyone!

Can you help me with this King 3B?

A friend is selling it and I can’t find its year with the serial number. In the slide appears 7519, what seems weird because its not that old… thanks!

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-08-11 8:19 a.m.

You are right; it's not old enough to have a 4 digit serial. There should be a 6 digit serial on the bell section near the screw threads. The 4 digit number was a part number used in manufacture.

The engraving on the bell does give some indication. That style of engraving dates back no further than the 1980s, Some time in the 1990s King hit 999999 and the next one was 100000.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2022-08-11 10:06 a.m.

Looks like the horn has the UMI "orange" lacquer on the bell section. The slide section looks like the grip area has been buffed or refinished possibly. Also, I'm a little confused, as the end bow of the outer slide looks to be nickel. I am pretty sure a King 3b should have a brass end bow.

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 10:14 a.m.

Yes, I found it: 307067.

Don’t know if you can see it in the photos, buy its goldbrass or yellow? I think its goldbrass but not for sure…

So this orange lacquer is good or bad? <EMOJI seq="1f605" tseq="1f605">😅</EMOJI>

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2022-08-11 10:27 a.m.

Looks yellow to me.

The gold lacquer is fine, one of the best 3Bs I've played (and slides!) was from this era.

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 10:33 a.m.

Serial number 307067 should be around 1950-55?

afugate · by **afugate** » 2022-08-11 10:44 a.m.

The 2103 designation wasn't used in the 1950s.

--Andy in OKC

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 10:50 a.m.

[quote="afugate"]The 2103 designation wasn't used in the 1950s.

--Andy in OKC[/quote]

Good point jajajaja

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-08-11 10:58 a.m.

As I mentioned earlier, King "rolled over" serial numbers in the 1990s going from 999999 to 1000000. My guess is this one is late 2000s.

The 3B was introduced in 1955. I wouldn't expect this horn to be that old. And if it was, it would have a very different bell engraving.

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 10:59 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]As I mentioned earlier, King "rolled over" serial numbers in the 1990s going from 999999 to 1000000. My guess is this one is late 2000s.

The 3B was introduced in 1955. I wouldn't expect this horn to be that old. And if it was, it would have a very different bell engraving.[/quote]

So with serial number 307067 from which year would it be?

Kingfan · by **Kingfan** » 2022-08-11 11:29 a.m.

My guess is late 80s/early 90s.

DaveAshley · by **DaveAshley** » 2022-08-11 11:32 a.m.

My guess is mid to late 80’s. The lacquer wasn’t as ‘orange’ looking after that, but everything else was the same. That’s not a darkening of lacquer - it’s tinted.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2022-08-11 12:54 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Looks yellow to me.

The gold lacquer is fine, one of the best 3Bs I've played (and slides!) was from this era.[/quote] The brazing seam on the bell looks lighter than the surrounding metal. Wouldn't that usually mean that the bell is rose or red brass? I am not at home so I can't check my 3B with a yellow bell to see if they used darker or lighter brazing material.

MrHCinDE · by **MrHCinDE** » 2022-08-11 2:04 p.m.

Maybe take a photo of the tuning slide crook held next to the bell. That could give a clue since the tuning slide crook is almost certainly yellow brass. If the hue of the tuning slide crook and bell is similar, unless there is a difference in lacquer (e.g. repair and re-lacquer), the bell is very probably yellow brass.

Briande · by **Briande** » 2022-08-11 2:22 p.m.

2103 designation puts it in the 80s but the serial number makes no sense. Something doesn’t add up.

https://www.horn-u-copia.net/serial/Kinglist.html

Kingfan · by **Kingfan** » 2022-08-11 3:01 p.m.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/resou ... al-numbers">https://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/resources/serial-numbers/king-instrument-serial-numbers</LINK_TEXT>. According to their site, they re-started at 100,000 in 1986. That is why I guessed late 80s.

1983-1984 906,860 - 976,571

1985-1986 976,572 - 999,999, 100,000 - 159,464

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2022-08-11 3:41 p.m.

I agree with Kingfan ^. Late 80's? And it could be gold brass but it is hard to tell because of the tinted lacquer.

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 4:00 p.m.

[quote="MrHCinDE"]Maybe take a photo of the tuning slide crook held next to the bell. That could give a clue since the tuning slide crook is almost certainly yellow brass. If the hue of the tuning slide crook and bell is similar, unless there is a difference in lacquer (e.g. repair and re-lacquer), the bell is very probably yellow brass.[/quote]

The tuning slide crook is the exact same colour as the bell.

I have a yellow brass Jiggs 2B and is totally different colour, maybe because the 2B is a modern one… I don’t know

The slide crook is plated, maybe because of a repair…?

alberttrombone · by **alberttrombone** » 2022-08-11 4:02 p.m.

So… anyone can explain me about that tinted/orange lacquer?

Why they did that, what changes in relation to sound? Should I remove it?

Thanks everyone for your answers!

TomRiker · by **TomRiker** » 2022-08-11 4:06 p.m.

No idea about sonic impact, but I've read that King orange lacquer is particularly difficult to remove.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2022-08-11 4:20 p.m.

If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.

Briande · by **Briande** » 2022-08-11 5:11 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.[/quote]

What did you use? Easy off? Been thinking about stripping one of my Kings and here they are tough to strip.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2022-08-11 5:18 p.m.

[quote="Briande"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="185998" time="1660249236" user_id="3131">
If you don't like it, you can remove it. I did on a couple of my Kings recently.[/quote]

What did you use? Easy off? Been thinking about stripping one of my Kings and here they are tough to strip.
</QUOTE>

Ez off and polished

afugate · by **afugate** » 2022-08-11 11:00 p.m.

[quote="alberttrombone"]So with serial number 307067 from which year would it be?[/quote]

Is it possible that the first number is actually an 8? If so, that would put it around 1980.

--Andy in OKC

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2022-08-13 4:21 p.m.

Well, I checked my 2103 from the mid 90s, and even on that, the brazing material is lighter than the brass in the bell. I wonder what they are using that is even lighter in color than yellow brass.

Lextier · by **Lextier** » 2024-08-16 7:31 p.m.

It's all a bit cloudy when it comes to King 2103 serial numbers.

I have just obtained a MINT condition horn with the serial number 5 565714. Im not sure what the first digit means but it is separated by one space from the other 6 digits. The case suggests 80's.

Any help identifying this one would be greatly appreciated.

Lex. T.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2024-08-16 8:27 p.m.

I think the 5-series horns were mid-1990s to early 2000s. They made some nice horn then!...

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-08-17 7:35 p.m.

Found this PDF that was VERY helpful!

https://www.brasshistory.net/White%20Brass%20List.pdf

iranzi · by **iranzi** » 2024-10-02 8:17 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]Found this PDF that was VERY helpful!

https://www.brasshistory.net/White%20Brass%20List.pdf[/quote]

Yes, you beat me to it. This horn is from 2014.

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King 3B year?