Range
- SBone
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Aug 14, 2022
I don’t understand how I am able to hit a F5 one day on a bass trombone yet not able to hit A4 on a tenor trombone the next. I feel like nothing I try works and it’s frustrating to the point that I genuinely want to walk away from the instrument and never pick it back up. Is this normal or is it just me?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
It's not uncommon. You are probably not being consistent in how you form your embouchure and also how the gear fits you. A lesson with somebody like Doug Elliott could give you a lot of suggestions on how to get more consistent.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Seemingly stupid things, like your hydration level, jaw position, tongue position, shoulder position, etc, are where consistency is most important.
My slide isn't lubricated right -- suddenly nothing works.
Seemingly unimportant things.
My slide isn't lubricated right -- suddenly nothing works.
Seemingly unimportant things.
- sterb225
- Posts: 126
- Joined: May 09, 2018
I'm not diagnosing your mouthpiece choices as too small like I discovered mine to be - but don't blindly subscribe to higher notes need smaller/shallower rims and cups 'wisdom'. I'll echo the need for a lesson with a great mechanical expert to spot inconsistency or flawed fundamentals. After years of struggling with range, I stopped doubling and refocused on tenor. I vibed with a T396 Edwards and started to try the Alessi mouthpieces with the 'it's a system' thought process. I was settled on a 3c after trying that and a few 5s. I caught a deal on a used 1C and figured it would be way too much cup (what amateur plays the same rig as Joe!?) but bought it anyway. Shockingly, the results were the opposite of what I anticipated, solidifying and extending my usable range beyond anything I'll need in an ensemble setting.
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
Do you have a consistent routine or practice schedule? One thing I've found from collecting other professional players warm ups for many years is that their routine to play the same everyday usually involves 20-30 minutes or more of playing fundamentals before warming up the higher ranges.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Have a lesson with Doug Elliott, you will then understand how your chops should work and feel when playing correctly
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
If one can pick up a bass trombone and hit F5, and then put some air into it, well okay, that's playing it, and I'd be surprised if one couldn't play it on any horn any time. Maybe no horn at all.
In my own experience, the most important thing of all has been to find a chop posture that withstands increasing air pressure, and continues vibrating, without blowing out. Then learning how to play that posture to the very lowest notes. In general, a blowout can be very instructive. It has a direction of movement in failure. As a first pass, move oppositely, against the direction of failure, then try that setting. Pay attention to the next blowout.
In my own experience, the most important thing of all has been to find a chop posture that withstands increasing air pressure, and continues vibrating, without blowing out. Then learning how to play that posture to the very lowest notes. In general, a blowout can be very instructive. It has a direction of movement in failure. As a first pass, move oppositely, against the direction of failure, then try that setting. Pay attention to the next blowout.
- GGJazz
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Jul 30, 2022
Hi everybody .
Hi SBone .
I would like to share my opinion too .
I do not think that to establish our range around the top "hitting" note we can play can be a good idea .
To me , we have to see where is our "practical" range , so the range in which we can play scales , arpeggios , staccato , legato , FF , pp , smooth melodies , ecc .
Hitting a note is just .. hitting a note! We set up our embouchure in a particolar way , we blow in a paricolar way , and a tone comes out . Can be F5 , or Bb6 ...
You wrote that a day you play on a bass trbn , and the next day you pick up the tenor trbn , ecc
Are you a bass trbn player that switch on tenor , or a tenor trbn player that switch on bass ?
Anyway , my opinion is that changing daily between those two horns could confuse a player' s embouchure , if one do not have strong trained chops .
Further , could be that for you it is easier to play on a bass trbn with a large mpc , than on a tenor trbn with smaller mpc .
Regards to everyone
Giancarlo
Hi SBone .
I would like to share my opinion too .
I do not think that to establish our range around the top "hitting" note we can play can be a good idea .
To me , we have to see where is our "practical" range , so the range in which we can play scales , arpeggios , staccato , legato , FF , pp , smooth melodies , ecc .
Hitting a note is just .. hitting a note! We set up our embouchure in a particolar way , we blow in a paricolar way , and a tone comes out . Can be F5 , or Bb6 ...
You wrote that a day you play on a bass trbn , and the next day you pick up the tenor trbn , ecc
Are you a bass trbn player that switch on tenor , or a tenor trbn player that switch on bass ?
Anyway , my opinion is that changing daily between those two horns could confuse a player' s embouchure , if one do not have strong trained chops .
Further , could be that for you it is easier to play on a bass trbn with a large mpc , than on a tenor trbn with smaller mpc .
Regards to everyone
Giancarlo
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Sometimes I'll pull out my old tenor trombone and I'll find that I can't play any higher on it than I do on my bass. In fact, I can't make much sense of it at all.
It may be that they are only approximately similar and that finer points like extremes of range are not immediately transferable without rigorous practice.
It may be that they are only approximately similar and that finer points like extremes of range are not immediately transferable without rigorous practice.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
I was gradually moving into larger mpcs this past year, starting with a Schilke 51, to a Schilke 5.1, a DE 102 and ultimately a Griego 4C.
It occurred to me that it’s one thing to hit a note way up there and play up in that range with accuracy and endurance. Over the summer I’ve come back to the S51 and devoted time to a sensible daily routine. My experience tells me that 101-102 mm works pretty well for me.
It occurred to me that it’s one thing to hit a note way up there and play up in that range with accuracy and endurance. Over the summer I’ve come back to the S51 and devoted time to a sensible daily routine. My experience tells me that 101-102 mm works pretty well for me.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="SBone"]I don’t understand how I am able to hit a F5 one day on a bass trombone yet not able to hit A4 on a tenor trombone the next. I feel like nothing I try works and it’s frustrating to the point that I genuinely want to walk away from the instrument and never pick it back up. Is this normal or is it just me?[/quote]
Not uncommon. Bad days and good days.
For what it's worth: I can play high on a bass trombone on a bass trombone mouthpiece as if it was a tenor but I can play higher better on a tenor. To me the smaller size helps, but most important help is stamina.
./Tom
Not uncommon. Bad days and good days.
For what it's worth: I can play high on a bass trombone on a bass trombone mouthpiece as if it was a tenor but I can play higher better on a tenor. To me the smaller size helps, but most important help is stamina.
./Tom
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="SBone"]
I feel like nothing I try works and it’s frustrating to the point that I genuinely want to walk away from the instrument and never pick it back up. Is this normal or is it just me?
[/quote]
Frustration with results, or lack of consistency and attaining goals, is more common than we’d like to admit. Work with your teacher to establish reasonable goals and develop consistency in your playing. Resist the temptation to rely on quick fixes.
Many people find it easier to play at the extremes of range and dynamics on the instrument they’re most familiar with. If you’re more familiar with bass, then it makes sense.
I feel like nothing I try works and it’s frustrating to the point that I genuinely want to walk away from the instrument and never pick it back up. Is this normal or is it just me?
[/quote]
Frustration with results, or lack of consistency and attaining goals, is more common than we’d like to admit. Work with your teacher to establish reasonable goals and develop consistency in your playing. Resist the temptation to rely on quick fixes.
Many people find it easier to play at the extremes of range and dynamics on the instrument they’re most familiar with. If you’re more familiar with bass, then it makes sense.