Removing bracing on Shires Basses
- baBposaune
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Jan 21, 2019
Hey, everyone! I hope I get a number of responses from folks who have actually done this rather than speculation.
I love my Shires bass but am planning on lightening the bell section but removing the four long braces that span the F and D tuning slides and the outer tubes. Has anyone done this and did it open up the response in the valve register?
Matt Varho
I love my Shires bass but am planning on lightening the bell section but removing the four long braces that span the F and D tuning slides and the outer tubes. Has anyone done this and did it open up the response in the valve register?
Matt Varho
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Not directly, but I’ve often considered replacing the very long and useless tuning slides. Neither the F or D slides need more than 2” of linear travel on a double rotor horn.
I’m also curious if there are any dissenting opinions, it is pretty clear that adding those braces was intention compared to other designs… is that a factor of the late 90s mass and Thayer preferences, or something else.
Cheers,
Andy
I’m also curious if there are any dissenting opinions, it is pretty clear that adding those braces was intention compared to other designs… is that a factor of the late 90s mass and Thayer preferences, or something else.
Cheers,
Andy
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Two braces are still way lighter than the old style closed wraps. I suspect that if you notice something after having it done, would be due to your tech making sure everything was in good alignment. I recently had my main tuning slide brace removed (sort of) on my Shires tenor and I did notice quite an improvement, but it's aligned perfectly now whereas it was definitely not before.
Reason I say "sort of" is that I actually had an OE Thayer set of modular parts added and I have a stylistic "counterweight" that a friend of mine made me. I can therefore remove the brace just by unscrewing the posts and I don't notice any difference on or off. Ergo... I'm pretty sure it was just out of alignment.
Reason I say "sort of" is that I actually had an OE Thayer set of modular parts added and I have a stylistic "counterweight" that a friend of mine made me. I can therefore remove the brace just by unscrewing the posts and I don't notice any difference on or off. Ergo... I'm pretty sure it was just out of alignment.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
Maybe the braces on the tuning slides themselves, but the one on the F-attachment looks to be needed for stability, as the nearest bracing points are quite far away due to the main tuning slide being there. With the D-attachment I think you could probably get away with removing both. Question is will the stability of the sound suffer at higher volumes.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
When I played dependent rotors I had no braces on the valve slides. I preferred it that way at that time, and I think my valves did play a bit more open compared to sets with braces.
Years later, I play independent rotors, and I like the way they play as is, with the braces. I've changed in that time though, and I'm not sure "open" is as high on my priority list as it was then. That said, I do turn the 2nd valve slide around so that there is a larger gap on the intake side. It's a very subtle difference to the blow and sound of the double valve register.
My gut sense is that you might very well get what you're after by removing the braces on the valve slides, but that removing the brace on the outer F tubing will be too much.
Years later, I play independent rotors, and I like the way they play as is, with the braces. I've changed in that time though, and I'm not sure "open" is as high on my priority list as it was then. That said, I do turn the 2nd valve slide around so that there is a larger gap on the intake side. It's a very subtle difference to the blow and sound of the double valve register.
My gut sense is that you might very well get what you're after by removing the braces on the valve slides, but that removing the brace on the outer F tubing will be too much.
- baBposaune
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Jan 21, 2019
[quote="GabrielRice"]
My gut sense is that you might very well get what you're after by removing the braces on the valve slides, but that removing the brace on the outer F tubing will be too much.[/quote]
Good thought. Besides, it's probably best to start with just one change and see how I like it before going nuts, which for me comes quite naturally.
Matt
My gut sense is that you might very well get what you're after by removing the braces on the valve slides, but that removing the brace on the outer F tubing will be too much.[/quote]
Good thought. Besides, it's probably best to start with just one change and see how I like it before going nuts, which for me comes quite naturally.
Matt
- bassbone
- Posts: 173
- Joined: May 04, 2018
for what it's worth, I know Shires played around with this at least on their Bass TruBore Valves.
I was one of the early adopters of those. When I went to Hopedale to be fit for a horn the only TruBore Valves available to play there were a prototype set. That prototype set had bracing on the F and Gb attachment slides as pictured above.
When they finalized the design, the brace on the valve slide went away and when my instrument was delivered they offered to replace the valve slides with ones that included the extra brace to match the prototype set if I wanted. I was happy with them minus the extra brace and never took them up on that offer.
I was one of the early adopters of those. When I went to Hopedale to be fit for a horn the only TruBore Valves available to play there were a prototype set. That prototype set had bracing on the F and Gb attachment slides as pictured above.
When they finalized the design, the brace on the valve slide went away and when my instrument was delivered they offered to replace the valve slides with ones that included the extra brace to match the prototype set if I wanted. I was happy with them minus the extra brace and never took them up on that offer.
- Blabberbucket
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Oct 09, 2022
Just for a bit of added information here... I'm a new member so I can't see the photo to see what sort of valve section you have, but I believe the info is true for most Shires basses.
On a Shires, the brace sockets that span the outer tuning slide tubes are brazed on so it'll be a bit challenging to remove those. I can't imagine you'll be able to unbraze those sockets without causing the tubes to go out of round. Maybe you could cut/sand them off, but then you're looking at refinishing the outer surface of the tubes. You should be able to get replacement outer tubes from Shires without sockets but I'd expect some inconsistency in fit if you go that route.
The angle braces will be easier to remove, as those sockets are soldered on with tin-silver. They will just leave behind some deeper solder staining.
On a Shires, the brace sockets that span the outer tuning slide tubes are brazed on so it'll be a bit challenging to remove those. I can't imagine you'll be able to unbraze those sockets without causing the tubes to go out of round. Maybe you could cut/sand them off, but then you're looking at refinishing the outer surface of the tubes. You should be able to get replacement outer tubes from Shires without sockets but I'd expect some inconsistency in fit if you go that route.
The angle braces will be easier to remove, as those sockets are soldered on with tin-silver. They will just leave behind some deeper solder staining.
- BigBadandBass
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Feb 13, 2020
I also have that same bracing and have noticed that attachments played way more opened when I reversed the tuning slides. There was a nice pop to them
- LowBrassJunkie
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Jul 19, 2020
Would be very interested to hear about how this turns out!
- BassBoneFL
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Aug 14, 2018
I could be mistaken but I think Shires offers a "light weight" valve section as an option (and is standard on the Curran Artist Model) that is pretty close to what you're talking about with the bracing and tuning slides.
- BigBadandBass
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Feb 13, 2020
[quote="BassBoneFL"]I could be mistaken but I think Shires offers a "light weight" valve section as an option (and is standard on the Curran Artist Model) that is pretty close to what you're talking about with the bracing and tuning slides.[/quote]
Less nickel along the outer legs of the tuning slide and no bracing the slides themselves and no E-pull with the inner legs being way shorter
Less nickel along the outer legs of the tuning slide and no bracing the slides themselves and no E-pull with the inner legs being way shorter
- heldenbone
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Aug 21, 2018
[quote="GabrielRice"]When I played dependent rotors I had no braces on the valve slides. I preferred it that way at that time, and I think my valves did play a bit more open compared to sets with braces.[/quote]
Getzen Eterna stacked rotor valve slides are just so. I have nothing to compare with, but that's how they came from the factory. Someone thought that was how they played best. :hi:
Getzen Eterna stacked rotor valve slides are just so. I have nothing to compare with, but that's how they came from the factory. Someone thought that was how they played best. :hi: