As promised, I started to make the sticky to clarify what I thought would be an ideal set of rules for the off-topic content but realized we don't have a terms of service yet so thought maybe it would just be best to clarify everything all at once as well as mention my thoughts about moving forward with this site.

Also, I briefly spoke with Doug Yeo about some of the content on his site and requesting clarification for how he'd prefer it be cited as he has a lot of useful information that was getting linked to. He indicated that he preferred a citation only, with a paraphrased description of why the link was necessary. He also pointed out an [url=http://www.yeodoug.com/articles/text/what_happened.html]article that he wrote all the way back in 2006 that describes why he thinks that professionals don't contribute as much to fora. I think it's well worth the read and considering some of the ideas. Heck, even on this team there are what, two actual trombonists who do something related for a substantial part of their income? I obviously don't find anything wrong with amateurs contributing. But I do think there might be able to incorporate some of the things he mentions. Basically his idea comes down to two points:

1) Online anonymity provides both a cover to be rude as well as to obfuscate the sorting of knowledge. Ergo, a person with little knowledge can carry nearly as much weight as someone who has substantial knowledge because of the way fora are presented.

2) It's time consuming to correct errors for questions that frequently come up.

I take these to mean that the balance that needs to be achieved is providing a format that allows for new discussions to be added while simultaneously archiving content in a curated fashion so that topics that get hashed out don't consistently need to be spent.

I don't know about the idea of forcing identification... if for no other reason than it would be rather difficult to implement. Although I suspect compliance with FN/LN might actually be surprisingly high, or as mine is with an obfuscated last name (although it's pretty easy to figure out my last name from my e-mail lol). And policing say, two different tiers where one are required to make questions, etc. might be very time consuming.

However, I do think that most of these concerns will be addressed by the nature of the wiki. I won't include any mention of the wiki in the proposed TOS, but keep what I've said above in mind with some of the... restrictions on content. I think in my ideal world, the wiki would be crystallized information that keeps coming up and maybe revisited from time to time as questions get asked. ("Where should I go to college?", "What's the best mouthpiece?") etc.

What precipitated the mentioning of mouthpiece was one of the new members posting a link to some blog where, ironically, the Doug Yeo was recommended as the "#1 trombone mouthpiece." I don't mind that this person linked something like that... but it was clearly an ad for their site and provided no other content. I think that type of person is best suited taking a back seat for some time to get the swing of things before they start thinking about making contributions.

Anyway, that said, here is what I'm thinking:

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This post is the Terms of Use for TromboneChat. We reserve the ability to make changes to this at any time. While we hope that you enjoy your time on TromboneChat, be aware that there are many posters for whom you should be considerate of their company! These rules clarify the type of contributions that seek to further that aim.

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*This TOS draws heavily on other Terms of Service, in particularly those from The Trombone Forum.

Not bad at all, Matt.

I just want to point out that young people are often told to use "handles" to safeguard against bad actors on the Net. That's something that would never occur to me, but I guess safety is important.

Very important that we reserve the right to remove posts or accounts without needing to justify our actions. We had quite a few mean spirited discussions on TTF dealing with trolls claiming that their "First Amendment Rights" were being abridged. Since we are a private entity, the First Amendment doesn't apply.

Well done. The above proposal represents a lot of careful thought for which you should gain the gratitude of all who want this place to be an enjoyable site to visit.

The perspectives of Doug Yeo are insightful and reasonable but the world has indeed moved on and no forum will offer the deference that he desires. As a result, few professionals are likely to become major contributors but that is simply the way of things.

There are many things I could post that I choose not to now as many people think little of free information so they may as well find out the hard way. There it is.

That said there is still much of value here and the efforts of the people who have created this place are very worthwhile.... someone with decent information usually replies to questions.

Chris

Thanks for the kind words both of you.

I brought that in kind of as a thought for the eventual end since there are very prescient points made that influenced the way that I thought about the rules outlined... which I think will go a long way towards not scaring people off. After all, I'm not worried about the scarcity of content --- there's plenty of it out there. I'm more worried about lack of utilization of the content. So, for example, the anonymity thing is potentially a good idea in the right context. For a forum, where there is unstructured content, I think it can work --- especially if complemented with the wiki, which as we eventually roll it out will make it easy to accumulate verified content.

That is something in particular that I think the OTJ, and really the format of articles, does not do particularly well in my opinion. The content is curated (and apparently peer reviewed), but even I didn't realize there were articles written there until literally yesterday. Nor yet are articles necessarily the best way of convey some frequently accessed information. But at the same time it may well be a place for that format should people be willing to contribute in that fashion. It's a very flexible format.

Complaints from teachers and professionals -

...

...they were previously apart of.

Should be "a part of"

or "of which they were previously a part"

:clever:

You obviously put "alot" of work into that :horror:

Great job!!! :idea:

Hah, I will give it to my wife to proofread before posting but do point out anything. I was rather worn down by parsing through legalese by the end of the day yesterday so I'm sure there are some sentences that made perfect sense to me that are... less clear than I had intended!

Will update that. Probably removing the awkward hypen. I originally intended for those to be subheaders or similar but then I didn't follow the convention for the other two points.

Sorry for the delay. Reading now. I had an interesting day yesterday which included falling down my stairs, going on a many-miles walk, teaching, and then groaning and trying to sleep.

Additionally, Oxford commas are the official comma of the TromboneChat. Failure to use Oxford commas outside of cases of obvious ambiguity will result in a severe wag of the finger. Maybe :shuffle:

Absolutely true - the Oxford comma is crucial. But...remove the "the" before TromboneChat.

It's just TromboneChat.

Not the TromboneChat.

Super great job, Matt. Still reading. I'm slow.

[quote="Matt K"]Hah, I will give it to my wife to proofread before posting but do point out anything. I was rather worn down by parsing through legalese by the end of the day yesterday so I'm sure there are some sentences that made perfect sense to me that are... less clear than I had intended!

Will update that. Probably removing the awkward hypen. I originally intended for those to be subheaders or similar but then I didn't follow the convention for the other two points.[/quote]

Great job, Matt. Really. Didn't know you were undertaking this yesterday. Weird day for me.

I didn't either :biggrin: I kept explaining certain things and then realized that those things needed other things and the next thing you know, there it was!

I, for one, welcome our new Oxford Comma overlords.

Any thoughts on the present dissenter? Do we appear petty, naive, and desperate for control? If so, do we care?

Hyperbolica can pound sand.

Seems most everyone else understands and actually agrees.

[quote="mrpillow"]Any thoughts on the present dissenter? Do we appear petty, naive, and desperate for control? If so, do we care?[/quote]

Yeah, that seemed to come out of left field. I feel like it makes him appear petty, naive, and desperate. Too bad - I'd really rather not have more drama. I'm dealing with a lot of weird stuff in my own life and don't need more stress, frankly.

The irony of the situation is that the second definition of petty is:

of secondary or lesser importance, rank, or scale; minor.

Which is literally off-topic content on a site dedicated to trombones...

He tends to be that way. Ignore him.

It's funny, some of the ones who cause the most trouble are people I actually know from teaching them, and I've been to their houses...

hyperbolica

ddickerson

snorsworthy

And of course Irvin

...not to mention those troublemakers Brian and Matt.

Not sure what the overtones or subtext are here but this comment slings a bit of an unwelcoming vibe

[quote="BGuttman"]Personally, I think we need to have Schlitz try some better quality beers :evil: Being retired I don't have to answer to anybody about my haircut, which is now a ponytail.

But I agree that most people on here don't really plan to be jerks. Fortunately, like gay couples they are in a minority and I hope they will not ruin the generally good discussions that pervade this Forum.[/quote]

Yes, I went ahead and moved that into the litter box for the time being. I just got to work so I'll be on and off but that's the type of post I was hoping to avoid, though frankly I can understand the sentiment coming from him. Everything okay Bruce?

I have an email complaint from Kevin Marsh about Bruce's post. Amusing, as he was the reason I stopped posting on TTF. I can see his point.... the gay comment has no place here. Marsh said he will not be posting here. I can live with that.... bet he does though.

Chris

Oh...now I see! Bruce, was this just poor wording? I think I see what you meant, but I see how it comes off, too.

Chris, are you talking about BonesMarsh from the old forum? What is his current screen name on TC?

That's why I moved it to the litter box for the time being. I read it the first time and didn't think anything of it but I can totally see how it could be taken otherwise but I didn't have time this morning before lunch to do anything about it.

Need to figure out how to make the "report" button more obvious. I've gotten a couple too as PMs and they should be sent through the report function so we all get stuff so we can act upon it quicker. Maybe I'll change the icon to make it more obvious that it's a reporting button.

I used the Gay Marriage statement only to compare to the number of jerks on this Forum.

Unfortunately, I think Kevin is one of them (jerk, not gay married).

If you want to remove the last sentence (with the gay marriage reference) as a condition to restore my comment, feel free. But I don't care if it remains where it is.

[quote="Matt K"]Need to figure out how to make the "report" button more obvious. I've gotten a couple too as PMs and they should be sent through the report function so we all get stuff so we can act upon it quicker. Maybe I'll change the icon to make it more obvious that it's a reporting button.[/quote]

Bright red button would be pretty obvious. I could make that icon, I think.

A suggestion......

Unlike TTF perhaps if we opt to be moderators, we should post with regard to our position at all times in all areas, and if we want more freedom, we can just be plain members.

Yes, Bonesmarsh....he has not joined, only lurking. He was pretty rude about the whole place, so I hope he stays away.

Chris

I'd be okay with that. To be honest, when you said that, it only now dawned on me what was meant by having certain moderators for certain sections. I was just kind of assuming I was speaking partially on behalf of TromboneChat.

A fair amount of the rules were made sort of with events with him in mind :shuffle: :shuffle:

And others.

What hyperbolica doesn't understand is that all of it comes from our collective experience on TTF... Although you were very new as a moderator, Matt, you obviously understood the situation

[quote="BGuttman"]I used the Gay Marriage statement only to compare to the number of jerks on this Forum.

Unfortunately, I think Kevin is one of them (jerk, not gay married).

If you want to remove the last sentence (with the gay marriage reference) as a condition to restore my comment, feel free. But I don't care if it remains where it is.[/quote]

And who is Kevin, Bruce? Hyperbolica?

Actually, Kevin is Bonesmarsh.

I'm not sure who Schlitz is, but I think he needs to switch to Amstel. <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>