Kanstul Quality
- Kneesks
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Nov 05, 2022
Looking at a personal trombone to purchase for the First time and I have seen a few Kanstul trigger trombones. Is Kanstul a good brand? I know they make marching instruments, but are there trombones any good?
- Fruitysloth
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Apr 10, 2018
Others will pop in and add to this, but Kanstul, while they were around, made high quality instruments. I currently own one of their bass bones, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. They made quite a few interesting instruments, continuing to produce TIS horns, in both Bass and Tenor trombones, some Bass Trumpets of theirs are floating around, I would love to get my hands on one of their 4/4 CC tubas! They're solid instruments for the price.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
I had a couple of Kanstuls come through the shop in the last few months. Interesting horns.
I have previously heard from a couple other techs that they are put together sloppily. My recent experience with these couple of instruments cannot confirm or contradict that statement. The horns did have a lot of alignment and tension problems when they arrived, but (since the horns had a lot of “experience” on them, I don’t know if the problems came from factory assembly or poor repair work. The good news is that both horns were repairable/workable and had great slide action/played very well when they left.
The CR valves are very interesting. The valves on the horns I worked on were very good…….excellent action and the resistance on engaged and disengaged sides was rather even. In other words, they lived up to their advertising. However, the construction of the valve cores concerns me. The core is not a machined solid form. It has, for lack of a better term, almost a “honeycomb” design. When I worked with those valve cores, I tried to be very careful with how I handled them. I worry that they could easily bend out of true.
I don’t see very many Kanstuls in my circles here in the mid-Atlantic. I don’t know if it is just the players that I hang with or an east coast/west coast thing. TC community……are there many Kanstuls being used out in California?
I have previously heard from a couple other techs that they are put together sloppily. My recent experience with these couple of instruments cannot confirm or contradict that statement. The horns did have a lot of alignment and tension problems when they arrived, but (since the horns had a lot of “experience” on them, I don’t know if the problems came from factory assembly or poor repair work. The good news is that both horns were repairable/workable and had great slide action/played very well when they left.
The CR valves are very interesting. The valves on the horns I worked on were very good…….excellent action and the resistance on engaged and disengaged sides was rather even. In other words, they lived up to their advertising. However, the construction of the valve cores concerns me. The core is not a machined solid form. It has, for lack of a better term, almost a “honeycomb” design. When I worked with those valve cores, I tried to be very careful with how I handled them. I worry that they could easily bend out of true.
I don’t see very many Kanstuls in my circles here in the mid-Atlantic. I don’t know if it is just the players that I hang with or an east coast/west coast thing. TC community……are there many Kanstuls being used out in California?
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
I own a Kanstul alto since about half a year ago.
Overall it's a good quality instrument with a good slide, lacquer etc. I cannot say much about the assembly of course. just one little flaw. The slide lock thing which is on the slide was positioned wrongly so that it didn't really work properly. Could be easily repaired, I simply took of the moving part.
It plays beautifully, with good sound and response. Interchangeable leadpipe which is nice. Some intonation "specialties", as most alto trombones have.
I should have looked more into Kanstul before they closed. they built some interesting instruments for fair prices.
Overall it's a good quality instrument with a good slide, lacquer etc. I cannot say much about the assembly of course. just one little flaw. The slide lock thing which is on the slide was positioned wrongly so that it didn't really work properly. Could be easily repaired, I simply took of the moving part.
It plays beautifully, with good sound and response. Interchangeable leadpipe which is nice. Some intonation "specialties", as most alto trombones have.
I should have looked more into Kanstul before they closed. they built some interesting instruments for fair prices.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
The lightweight nature of CR valves is not a flaw; it is a feature. It was a different approach to building a valve. They were made from 2 pieces of curved tubing with an outer shell, rather than machined out of a solid piece of brass. The top and bottom disks are drilled out to reduce weight. IIRC, the prototype was solid around the circumference, but they ended up venting it to avoid popping when the valve is engaged. You do have to take care of them. If you go 10 years without ever cleaning your horn, they probably aren't going to operate very well. I did run into a couple of them where it didn't seem like they were lapped in correctly at the factory, but for the most part it was a good product.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
I have two Kanstul Horns, and they are well designed and made, though the fit and finish is not the same you would get on something like a Yamaha or more Boutique horn. I can see the buffing striations on the brass on parts of the horn. However, the slides were aligned perfectly, and the valves are just great. The leadpipes they made were quite popular, though for some reason the Minick Legit (ML) and Minick Open (MO) leadpipes that came with my 1588 were shorter than those that came with my 1570. They were about 10,000 serials apart, so maybe they changed the Minick pipes. This is a comparison of the BB, ML, and MO leadpipes, with the older ones on the left.
The slides on the horns are also a bit shorter than Bach slides. I haven't compared them to Conn slides, but the outer sides are definitely a bit shorter. No complaints on how they play, though they are somewhat "light" in construction compared to a bach / edwards / shires. I like my 1570 as a "light 42", that doesn't need to destroy the universe to get a nice edge on the sound.
The slides on the horns are also a bit shorter than Bach slides. I haven't compared them to Conn slides, but the outer sides are definitely a bit shorter. No complaints on how they play, though they are somewhat "light" in construction compared to a bach / edwards / shires. I like my 1570 as a "light 42", that doesn't need to destroy the universe to get a nice edge on the sound.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Kanstul (R.I.P.) made some wonderful trombones, with excellent sound - some rather innovative. But I believe their fabrication and quality control were a bit erratic, especially in the last few years of their existence, so you probably need to play before you buy. And be prepared to have a competent tech give it a go-over to smooth out some of the potential quality "wrinkles." You may then be very pleased. Good luck!
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]TC community……are there many Kanstuls being used out in California?[/quote]
I haven't seen many.
I used to have a Kanstul 975 compensating euph that was excellent, which now belongs to a high school in the Los Angeles area. Apart from that and a player using a 760 (.500"-.530" trombone with open wrap F attachment, one of their most interesting models) on 3rd in a big band, I'm not sure I've ever seen another Kanstul in the flesh out here.
I haven't seen many.
I used to have a Kanstul 975 compensating euph that was excellent, which now belongs to a high school in the Los Angeles area. Apart from that and a player using a 760 (.500"-.530" trombone with open wrap F attachment, one of their most interesting models) on 3rd in a big band, I'm not sure I've ever seen another Kanstul in the flesh out here.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
There were a couple of Bones West regulars who had 1662’s (including one with a Haynor linkage setup), but both have since relocated out of the area. There’s one regular with what I think is a 1670. I don’t think anyone else in my circle regularly plays one. I do see a couple Kanstul flugelhorns on a weekly basis.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="brassmedic"]The lightweight nature of CR valves is not a flaw; it is a feature. It was a different approach to building a valve. They were made from 2 pieces of curved tubing with an outer shell, rather than machined out of a solid piece of brass. The top and bottom disks are drilled out to reduce weight. IIRC, the prototype was solid around the circumference, but they ended up venting it to avoid popping when the valve is engaged. You do have to take care of them. If you go 10 years without ever cleaning your horn, they probably aren't going to operate very well. I did run into a couple of them where it didn't seem like they were lapped in correctly at the factory, but for the most part it was a good product.[/quote]
Very different indeed, and I thought the valves/horns that I had here played extremely well. My concern was the vulnerability of the valve core itself. As I was holding it, I thought “if someone drops this, there is a high probability it would bend/contort and the valve core may never work again.”
Granted…..there are vulnerabilities in other valves as well. The spindles/stems on the Hagmann free-flow valves are somewhat susceptible to bending. I have also seen an Olsen rotor core that was dropped and dented (in the worst possible place) and it lost its seal. So, this is not something that would be unique to a CR valve. I just felt like I had to be extremely careful while handling the CR valves.
Maybe I am just a worrier! After all, my primary day job is teaching band/orchestra for public schools and I witness at least 4 or 5 dropped instruments every day.
Very different indeed, and I thought the valves/horns that I had here played extremely well. My concern was the vulnerability of the valve core itself. As I was holding it, I thought “if someone drops this, there is a high probability it would bend/contort and the valve core may never work again.”
Granted…..there are vulnerabilities in other valves as well. The spindles/stems on the Hagmann free-flow valves are somewhat susceptible to bending. I have also seen an Olsen rotor core that was dropped and dented (in the worst possible place) and it lost its seal. So, this is not something that would be unique to a CR valve. I just felt like I had to be extremely careful while handling the CR valves.
Maybe I am just a worrier! After all, my primary day job is teaching band/orchestra for public schools and I witness at least 4 or 5 dropped instruments every day.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="JohnL"]There were a couple of Bones West regulars who had 1662’s (including one with a Haynor linkage setup), but both have since relocated out of the area. There’s one regular with what I think is a 1670. I don’t think anyone else in my circle regularly plays one. I do see a couple Kanstul flugelhorns on a weekly basis.[/quote]
Hey! I wonder if that 1662 was one of the horns I had here! It was 1662 dependent with TIS and a Haynor grip set up. I hated the “Haynor” part of it because it was very uncomfortable to hold, but the horn played/sounded great…..similar to a nice Conn 62.
Hey! I wonder if that 1662 was one of the horns I had here! It was 1662 dependent with TIS and a Haynor grip set up. I hated the “Haynor” part of it because it was very uncomfortable to hold, but the horn played/sounded great…..similar to a nice Conn 62.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
The Haynor horn also came in a silver tank case.
- JLivi
- Posts: 870
- Joined: May 10, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]I have previously heard from a couple other techs that they are put together sloppily.[/quote]
I’ve run into these issues since owning my 1585 bass bone. I bought it back in 2010 off of someone on the old forum. Over the last 12 years I’ve had some issues with the soldering, but other than that I really enjoy playing the horn. Materials are nice, but assembly wasn’t great. I should mention though that I’m mainly a tenor player and occasionally will play bass for teaching or a big band (which I rarely get called for anymore).
There’s a guy in town that has the 1606 and he loves it. I’ve played it once and thought it was nice. Not worth trading my 3b for though. But if I was in the market for a horn I’d consider it.
I’ve run into these issues since owning my 1585 bass bone. I bought it back in 2010 off of someone on the old forum. Over the last 12 years I’ve had some issues with the soldering, but other than that I really enjoy playing the horn. Materials are nice, but assembly wasn’t great. I should mention though that I’m mainly a tenor player and occasionally will play bass for teaching or a big band (which I rarely get called for anymore).
There’s a guy in town that has the 1606 and he loves it. I’ve played it once and thought it was nice. Not worth trading my 3b for though. But if I was in the market for a horn I’d consider it.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]The Haynor horn also came in a silver tank case.[/quote]
That may have been Michael McGuire's horn. He was a rep for Diversified Cases (one-time makers of the Tank Case). Last I heard, he was in the Atlanta area.
That may have been Michael McGuire's horn. He was a rep for Diversified Cases (one-time makers of the Tank Case). Last I heard, he was in the Atlanta area.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've owned 2 Kanstuls. One was a 760 small bore F attachment, and it was frighteningly bright to play. I got rid of it as fast as I could.
The second is a 1662i which I've had for 8 years or so. I don't like how it feels to play, but I can't get rid of it because of the comments I get on the sound.
I've had problems with the valves, but I think that's a personal chemistry problem. It doesn't play nicely above the staff, but the sound below the staff is velvety and rich. I keep trying to find something more playable that sounds as good, I just haven't dedicated enough money to the project.
The result of keeping this horn is that I kind of resent bass trombone, while I get good results from playing it. I'm trying to get into an older Holton or Conn and I'll sacrifice some of that velvet sound for something with a more playable upper range. From a practical point, you still sometimes have to use a bass bone as a regular trombone.
1662i was supposed to emulate a Conn 62h, and it really doesn't do that.
The second is a 1662i which I've had for 8 years or so. I don't like how it feels to play, but I can't get rid of it because of the comments I get on the sound.
I've had problems with the valves, but I think that's a personal chemistry problem. It doesn't play nicely above the staff, but the sound below the staff is velvety and rich. I keep trying to find something more playable that sounds as good, I just haven't dedicated enough money to the project.
The result of keeping this horn is that I kind of resent bass trombone, while I get good results from playing it. I'm trying to get into an older Holton or Conn and I'll sacrifice some of that velvet sound for something with a more playable upper range. From a practical point, you still sometimes have to use a bass bone as a regular trombone.
1662i was supposed to emulate a Conn 62h, and it really doesn't do that.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Crazy4Tbone86" post_id="192949" time="1667778604" user_id="8392">
The Haynor horn also came in a silver tank case.[/quote]
That may have been Michael McGuire's horn. He was a rep for Diversified Cases (one-time makers of the Tank Case). Last I heard, he was in the Atlanta area.
</QUOTE>
I have a rehearsal with the owner of that 1662 with the Haynor linkages later this. I’ll see if he knows who the former owner was.
The Haynor horn also came in a silver tank case.[/quote]
That may have been Michael McGuire's horn. He was a rep for Diversified Cases (one-time makers of the Tank Case). Last I heard, he was in the Atlanta area.
</QUOTE>
I have a rehearsal with the owner of that 1662 with the Haynor linkages later this. I’ll see if he knows who the former owner was.
- Digidog
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Dec 13, 2018
A loooong, long time ago, I borrowed two Kanstul small bore jazz horns, when trying instruments to replace my then sold Schmelzer 2. I have no recollection of what they were, and what specs they had, but I remeber that the lead pipes were strange and both horns were hard to intonate and get to play in pitch.
I remember that at the time, Kanstul was all the rage among trumpeters, and though the trombones I borrowed were beautiful (in a brushed finish) and had a quality feel, they were not for me.
I remember that at the time, Kanstul was all the rage among trumpeters, and though the trombones I borrowed were beautiful (in a brushed finish) and had a quality feel, they were not for me.