Brad Close Contrabass Sackbut in BBb
- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Brad Close just finished this BBb contrabass sackbut for me. I will let him give you all the details and specifics but its based on the 1640 Oller BBb contrabass, made from sheet red brass... and it is quite incredible. We did a doubled up slide instead of the full length for playability. Brad never ceases to amaze me with his skills!
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- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
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- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
Awesome!
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Beautiful as always!
I also love that your approach to the needed number of contra instruments is always N + 1.
Cheers,
Andy
I also love that your approach to the needed number of contra instruments is always N + 1.
Cheers,
Andy
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
V noice.
With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?
With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
That is beautiful!!!!
BUT
If it is in BBb and has a double slide, why does it need a handle to reach the farthest slide positions?
Cheers
Stewbones43
BUT
If it is in BBb and has a double slide, why does it need a handle to reach the farthest slide positions?
Cheers
Stewbones43
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="ithinknot"]V noice.
With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?[/quote]
Simply put, because Noah wanted a handle. Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not? And I have to admit it is helpful. With the upper slide crook in there, you're already pretty far out in first, so it helps in reaching 7th without it being such a stretch. Also, with the inline slide tubes in the way, it wouldn't be as easy to get a good grip on the slide brace. And I'll let Noah answer this, but maybe partly just for the look.
With the doubled slide, why the handle... just for 'that feel' ?[/quote]
Simply put, because Noah wanted a handle. Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not? And I have to admit it is helpful. With the upper slide crook in there, you're already pretty far out in first, so it helps in reaching 7th without it being such a stretch. Also, with the inline slide tubes in the way, it wouldn't be as easy to get a good grip on the slide brace. And I'll let Noah answer this, but maybe partly just for the look.
- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
The handle is there for aesthetics but it is also functional and allows for ease of reaching 7th position without stretching out and keeping the ergonomic balance of the horn. The narrow slide braces due to the inline tube construction also doesn't give much space to grip the slide so this setup works MUCH better (and it looks cool)
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?
- ithinknot
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Jul 24, 2020
[quote="slipmo"](and it looks cool)[/quote]
that it do :good:
that it do :good:
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Just curious... Does the water key on a double slide instrument work for both slides or is it customary to use two independent water keys.
--Andy in OKC
--Andy in OKC
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?[/quote]
Yes, shorter than the original bell section, but I made it with a tuning slide, so actually could be just about any length. Can pull to 415 if desired. B natural is possible on this one.
Yes, shorter than the original bell section, but I made it with a tuning slide, so actually could be just about any length. Can pull to 415 if desired. B natural is possible on this one.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
A waterkey with 2 cups is often used, but I opted for 2 seperate keys with a tab coming off one key, so that both are opened by pressing only one. (Similar to how the old style double valve bass bones levers worked). That way a slight waterkey misalignment won't cause it to leak.
[quote="afugate"]Just curious... Does the water key on a double slide instrument work for both slides or is it customary to use two independent water keys.
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
[quote="afugate"]Just curious... Does the water key on a double slide instrument work for both slides or is it customary to use two independent water keys.
--Andy in OKC[/quote]
- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]It has seven positions? I guess you had to shorten the bell section a bit compared to the original?[/quote]
and believe it or not... but it fits in my brass bags bass sackbut case (just barely)
and believe it or not... but it fits in my brass bags bass sackbut case (just barely)
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
So here's a question..
How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?
Would love to hear some sounds from it!!
How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?
Would love to hear some sounds from it!!
- slipmo
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Apr 13, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]So here's a question..
How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?
Would love to hear some sounds from it!![/quote]
I commissioned it from Brad :D Hopefully using it on a project soon
How did this come to fruition? Made for a specific client? Or on a whim?
Would love to hear some sounds from it!![/quote]
I commissioned it from Brad :D Hopefully using it on a project soon
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
<EMOJI seq="1f642" tseq="1f642">🙂</EMOJI>
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Great looking horn!
[quote="brassmedic"]... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?[/quote]
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:
[quote="brassmedic"]... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?[/quote]
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]Great looking horn!
<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="193684" time="1668542355" user_id="4102">
... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?[/quote]
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:
</QUOTE>
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).
<QUOTE author="brassmedic" post_id="193684" time="1668542355" user_id="4102">
... Not strictly needed, but there is historical precedent for Bb length slides having handles, so why not?[/quote]
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:
</QUOTE>
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]<QUOTE author="robcat2075" post_id="193768" time="1668640414" user_id="3697">
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:[/quote]
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).
</QUOTE>
Yeah...
My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.
Baroque people were under-fed and smaller in many parts of Europe.
I've been through old palaces in Europe and the most of the beds were noticeably short compared to modern ones.
The tour guides would say it was because people slept sitting up, propped up on pillows, but... hmmm :idk:[/quote]
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).
</QUOTE>
Yeah...
My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="LeTromboniste" post_id="193780" time="1668660572" user_id="3038">
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).[/quote]
Yeah...
My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.
</QUOTE>
Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing. There *might* be a few rare examples but they would be very much the exception, not the norm (I've definitely seen a few 19th-20th century German trombones modified to have a short handle, though). If people back then had systematically such shorter arms that they couldn't reach, one would expect either handles to be really common in both iconography and surviving instruments, or the trombone to have evolved as a higher pitched instrument (C) with a shorter slide to start with.
But of course, if someone shorter can't reach, then adding a handle makes sense, and of course that's the reason we do very occasionally see them.
I think the point above was that the double coiled slide is the same length as a tenor slide (which doesn't usually have a handle).[/quote]
Yeah...
My point above is that smaller people might indeed need a handle for the slide that is the same length as a tenor slide... which might be the reason for the mentioned historical precedent of such things existing on tenor slides rather than a desire for superfluous complication and adornment.
</QUOTE>
Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing. There *might* be a few rare examples but they would be very much the exception, not the norm (I've definitely seen a few 19th-20th century German trombones modified to have a short handle, though). If people back then had systematically such shorter arms that they couldn't reach, one would expect either handles to be really common in both iconography and surviving instruments, or the trombone to have evolved as a higher pitched instrument (C) with a shorter slide to start with.
But of course, if someone shorter can't reach, then adding a handle makes sense, and of course that's the reason we do very occasionally see them.
- Tbarh
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
Wow…<EMOJI seq="1f62e" tseq="1f62e">😮</EMOJI> I have seen the original single slide…Mindboggling<EMOJI seq="1f633" tseq="1f633">😳</EMOJI>
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Tbarh"]Wow…<EMOJI seq="1f62e" tseq="1f62e">😮</EMOJI> I have seen the original single slide…Mindboggling<EMOJI seq="1f633" tseq="1f633">😳</EMOJI>[/quote]
The British used to refer to the G Bass trombone as a "Kid Shifter". A BBb would be monstrous! :)
The British used to refer to the G Bass trombone as a "Kid Shifter". A BBb would be monstrous! :)
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I just played (or tried to...) the first Meinl copy of this Oller. The slide is indeed monstrous. It's almost five feet long, with the handle over a foot long, which makes playing the close positions rather difficult (or you grip further up the handle but then you have to find a way to slide your grip to the pommel for the long positions and back). Also makes for an interesting challenge emptying the slide (no waterkey!).
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Wow. Two man effort to drain the slide. "Hans, come over here and take off the outer slide and empty it. Then put it back on."
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="LeTromboniste"]Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing.[/quote]
You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.
If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.
You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.
If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="LeTromboniste" post_id="193785" time="1668673975" user_id="3038">
Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing.[/quote]
You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.
If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.
</QUOTE>
I wasn't so much arguing as simply participating in the discussion and engaging with the point that was brought up. I guess that's rude to do on a discussion forum now :idk:
Yes, but handles on tenor sackbuts are just not a thing.[/quote]
You're arguing with the wrong person. The OP said there's a precedent for it. I'm merely offering a reason such a precedent case might have happened.
If you insist it never happened ever ever ever... complain to the OP.
</QUOTE>
I wasn't so much arguing as simply participating in the discussion and engaging with the point that was brought up. I guess that's rude to do on a discussion forum now :idk:
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
I didn't say Renaissance tenors had handles. The examples of tenor-length trombone slides that have handles are later than that.