Clueless about mouthpieces. Suggestions for new one?
- Gabriel06
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Apr 08, 2022
I've been thinking about getting a new mouthpiece for a while and I think with winter break coming up the time is here.
The main reason why I'm interested in a new mouthpiece is that I'm looking to brighten up my tone. Does anyone have suggestions on things I should I look for to achieve that? I currently play on a Juptier 6 1/2 AL.
The main reason why I'm interested in a new mouthpiece is that I'm looking to brighten up my tone. Does anyone have suggestions on things I should I look for to achieve that? I currently play on a Juptier 6 1/2 AL.
- officermayo
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Jun 09, 2021
Two words:
Doug Elliott.
Doug Elliott.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
In addition to assisting you find the right cup size for your playing and your trombone, and the right rim size for your face, Doug Elliott can also provide a shank that will fit your Olds receiver (probably smaller than standard small-shank mouthpieces). Once you've got a DE setup. you may not look back.
- BrianJohnston
- Posts: 1165
- Joined: Jul 11, 2020
Gabe, a lot goes into finding the right mouthpiece;
I also recommend getting in touch with <U>Doug Elliot</U> as well, because the mouthpiece is VERY specific to the player.
"Basically put"
The Rim size, shape, width need to be specific to your lips and face
The Cup needs to give you the sound you want, but also the range you can manage
The Throat/Backbore need to give you the openess/focus you need
The Shank needs to be the right length for what you're after as well.
Doug Elliot can go through ALL of this with you and set you up with multiple removable changeable options.
After the fact, you may find a rim, cup, throat, backbore, shank that works for you and then you can try various brands to find your exact fit.
Good luck.
I also recommend getting in touch with <U>Doug Elliot</U> as well, because the mouthpiece is VERY specific to the player.
"Basically put"
The Rim size, shape, width need to be specific to your lips and face
The Cup needs to give you the sound you want, but also the range you can manage
The Throat/Backbore need to give you the openess/focus you need
The Shank needs to be the right length for what you're after as well.
Doug Elliot can go through ALL of this with you and set you up with multiple removable changeable options.
After the fact, you may find a rim, cup, throat, backbore, shank that works for you and then you can try various brands to find your exact fit.
Good luck.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
Doug Elliott
Contact Doug, maybe have a lesson and you will then know your mouthpiece placement, best rim size for it and a whole lot more
Contact Doug, maybe have a lesson and you will then know your mouthpiece placement, best rim size for it and a whole lot more
- HermanGerman
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Oct 29, 2021
Go to a shop and find out what you like..
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Going to a shop and trying a bunch has limitations. A mouthpiece that seems to work in the store may sour after the "honeymoon period".
Dealing with a mouthpiece expert can help focus your search to minimize blind alleys. A Skype session with Doug can save a lot of time; and Doug will not force you to use his stuff. Personally, I suspect you aren't ready for a true Doug Elliott system. You need to establish a few parameters of your play.
I have a 1925 TIS Olds like yours. It's an LM 8 (LM is large medium bore and has an 8" bell). It came with a Rudy Muck 23 mouthpiece, about a Bach 12C size. I play mine with a Bach 4C, but I play large-ish mouthpieces.
One thing that could help is a description of what kind of playing you do.
Dealing with a mouthpiece expert can help focus your search to minimize blind alleys. A Skype session with Doug can save a lot of time; and Doug will not force you to use his stuff. Personally, I suspect you aren't ready for a true Doug Elliott system. You need to establish a few parameters of your play.
I have a 1925 TIS Olds like yours. It's an LM 8 (LM is large medium bore and has an 8" bell). It came with a Rudy Muck 23 mouthpiece, about a Bach 12C size. I play mine with a Bach 4C, but I play large-ish mouthpieces.
One thing that could help is a description of what kind of playing you do.
- blap73
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 26, 2021
Another idea - eBay has LOTS of inexpensive Olds mouthpieces. For the price... pick up one and see what you think. I don't know if they followed the Bach numbering or not.
[Also IIRC, they eventually went to a standard shank size... so you'd be looking at finding older ones]
See <LINK_TEXT text="http://mouthpieceexpress.com/specshub/s ... tenor.html">http://mouthpieceexpress.com/specshub/specs/specs_bach_trombone_tenor.html</LINK_TEXT>
for info on the Bachs (and applicable to many clones)
Probably the other most common starter MP is the 12C. You'll find it fairly different from the 6.5 AL
See this for info on Olds MP: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6092
[Also IIRC, they eventually went to a standard shank size... so you'd be looking at finding older ones]
See <LINK_TEXT text="http://mouthpieceexpress.com/specshub/s ... tenor.html">http://mouthpieceexpress.com/specshub/specs/specs_bach_trombone_tenor.html</LINK_TEXT>
for info on the Bachs (and applicable to many clones)
Probably the other most common starter MP is the 12C. You'll find it fairly different from the 6.5 AL
See this for info on Olds MP: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6092
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The "starter" mouthpiece on Olds was the Olds 3. It's like a Bach 12C. The standard starter mouthpiece back in the day was a Bach 12C size. More suited to high playing and kinda thin in the staff.
Now the "starter" mouthpiece is the Bach 7C or 6.5AL. A bit bigger.
Again, where to go depends on what you don't like with your current mouthpiece; and whether it's too big or too small.
If you just want to experiment, the suggestion above is pretty good. Look for older ones in the $15-30 range and get a few. Most will be pretty similar. Couple of comparisons:
Bach 12C is the same as Yamaha (or Schilke) 45.
Bach 6.5AL (where you are now) is the same as Schilke 50 or Yamaha 48. Bach 7C is just a tad smaller.
Bach 5G (1 size larger) is the same as Schilke or Yamaha 51
Bach 4G (2 sizes larger) is the same as Schilke or Yamaha 52
Conn 3 came in a variety of "flavors" being 12C or 7C equivalents
I still think a short session with Doug Elliott will help focus you in the right direction.
Now the "starter" mouthpiece is the Bach 7C or 6.5AL. A bit bigger.
Again, where to go depends on what you don't like with your current mouthpiece; and whether it's too big or too small.
If you just want to experiment, the suggestion above is pretty good. Look for older ones in the $15-30 range and get a few. Most will be pretty similar. Couple of comparisons:
Bach 12C is the same as Yamaha (or Schilke) 45.
Bach 6.5AL (where you are now) is the same as Schilke 50 or Yamaha 48. Bach 7C is just a tad smaller.
Bach 5G (1 size larger) is the same as Schilke or Yamaha 51
Bach 4G (2 sizes larger) is the same as Schilke or Yamaha 52
Conn 3 came in a variety of "flavors" being 12C or 7C equivalents
I still think a short session with Doug Elliott will help focus you in the right direction.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
How does Doug have any time left after dealing with all these inquiries?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Between gigs (and driving to them), trying to keep up with emails, making mouthpieces, and Skype lessons, I'm as busy as I want to be.
I'm glad I didn't start on a 12C. I would have given up.
I'm glad I didn't start on a 12C. I would have given up.
- blap73
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Dec 26, 2021
I think... the experts can correct me! That the reason in the past that the 12C was more popular, but now the 6.5 AL etc. are more popular might be that in the past many horns were smaller than 0.500" bore. From my (very limited) experience it seems like the larger bores need a larger throat mouthpiece. Looking at your picture I'm guessing that your horn is smaller than 0.500" bore. I've tried the 6.5 AL on my Conn 4H (.485" bore), and I don't like it.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
OP's horn is probably sub 0.500" (12.7 mm). There were several bores, but I think L was 0.500", and ML and M were smaller.
As I mentioned, my 1925 ML came with a Rudy Muck 23, a rather small mouthpiece. Note that I got the instrument used and have no idea what the original mouthpiece size was -- probably that ivory thing that was shards when I opened the case the first time. While my Rudy Muck was from the same period as the instrument, there is now somebody making Rudy Muck mouthpieces based on the original tooling. One characteristic of the Muck was a rather wide rim. I sold mine to a friend who lost his when his horn was stolen. He sounded great on it; I didn't.
As I mentioned, my 1925 ML came with a Rudy Muck 23, a rather small mouthpiece. Note that I got the instrument used and have no idea what the original mouthpiece size was -- probably that ivory thing that was shards when I opened the case the first time. While my Rudy Muck was from the same period as the instrument, there is now somebody making Rudy Muck mouthpieces based on the original tooling. One characteristic of the Muck was a rather wide rim. I sold mine to a friend who lost his when his horn was stolen. He sounded great on it; I didn't.