Unknown Olds Horn

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-16 9:49 p.m.

I've come across an unusual olds horn with an F attachment. with unreadable engravings. It's wrap is different than any other flat wrap I've seen. It's trigger placement and rotor design is also very strange. It's got tuning in slide and the serial number is 380516, which seems to date it back to 1960. I'll attach some pictures below. Does anyone know what this horn is, or have any examples of similar designs?

~~[url]~~https://imgur.com/a/iMzmzhO

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-12-16 10:17 p.m.

Large shank mouthpiece? Looks like an S-20. That’s the old style valve; I’ve got a few horns with that design.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-12-16 10:37 p.m.

I have one that (I think) looks identical except the valve is intact. The bell says "The Olds"

I can pull it out and look, but I'm pretty sure it's the same.

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2022-12-17 2:18 a.m.

I have one of those too. It also says The Olds on the bell. I think that was their normal valve configuration then.

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 9:07 a.m.

The valve works except for the spring, I just took it apart. Thanks though, I'll look into the S-20

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 9:19 a.m.

I can only find pictures of a few S-20s online and they do look like the same horn, except that the rotor design isn't the same. I can't find a single horn online that has the same design as this horn, with the spring next to the rotor, the plastic piece with wood bumpers, and the chrome colored cap that covers all this up. If you have a working horn with this type of design, do you have insight on how the spring fits inside? If I could figure that out, this horn would be back in working condition again.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2022-12-17 9:44 a.m.

Have you looked at JohnL's site www.itsabear.com? John is an Olds collector and aficionado. If anybody could help you, John is the man.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-12-17 10:39 a.m.

If you'll take a look at my website (http://www.itsabear.com), there are several horns shown with that same valve design. What eventually became the S-20 was in production for a very long time and went through several design changes. I've seen the "can valve" (that's what I call it) on Olds trombones from the mid-1930's up through the early 1960's. Oddly enough, they never seem to have used it on the R-20, A-20, or O-23, even though those models were introduced while the can valve was still being used on the S-20 and S-23.

Can you post a picture of just the spring? I can't tell for sure, but I think you only have part of the spring. There should be a loop in each end; one goes around the post sticking out the back side of the valve casing and the other is attached to the bumper disk at the screw.

I'll try to get some pictures of the internals later today.

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 10:59 a.m.

Yep, it looks like I've only got a part of it.

<IMGUR id="a/6Q6CYen">https://imgur.com/a/6Q6CYen</IMGUR>

Thanks for all the help, and I'd love to see the inside workings of these valves.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-12-17 11:44 a.m.

That doesn't even look like part of the correct spring.

Here are some pics from a GR Bass prototype that's from around the same time period as your horn. The little brown bit is a stray piece of cork; not necessary to the function of the valve.

<ATTACHMENT filename="Olds_Valve_2.JPG" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~Olds_Valve_2.JPG</ATTACHMENT>

<ATTACHMENT filename="Olds_Valve_1.JPG" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~Olds_Valve_1.JPG</ATTACHMENT>

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 11:54 a.m.

Huh, that's strange. I wonder where the spring came from then. Thanks for your help though.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-12-17 12:04 p.m.

[quote="infinityoofs"]Huh, that's strange. I wonder where the spring came from then. Thanks for your help though. It should have a loop for the stop arm and a loop around the screw, right?[/quote]
It looks like it might be one end of a spring for one of the later Olds rotors; those springs have the ends bent like that.

And yes, the correct spring should have a loop on either end. One goes around the screw and the other around the post.

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 12:36 p.m.

Oh, okay. How would I go about finding a new spring?

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2022-12-17 2:39 p.m.

[quote="ZGunawardhana"]Oh, okay. How would I go about finding a new spring?[/quote]
Allied might sell something that would work (AFAIK, they only sell to "professional" repair techs).

Getting a spring made might be an option. There are some techs that do that sort of work - particularly the ones that do a lot of restorations on antique instruments.

I've seen a couple of those where someone has rigged up an external spring that acts on the linkage.

EDIT: It occurs to me that someone who does a lot of work on antique clocks might also be able to make a spring for you.

ZGunawardhana · by **ZGunawardhana** » 2022-12-17 2:48 p.m.

Oh alright. that sounds good. Thank you.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2022-12-17 6:19 p.m.

With some practice and some tools, it's not too hard to wind your own springs with piano wire of the right size. It would obviously help to see an original.

I don't think mine looks like that but I'll take a look.

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Unknown Olds Horn