So I've moved to a contra bone mouthpiece
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
Seems that Long Island Brass is not wide enough and he's down for now. This sucker honks. 29.5 mm to 30.3 seems more comfortable. My range has improved momentarily
But we know how that goes with new pieces. I got to connect the bottom and the top of the range. Previous pieces are waaay to small.
But we know how that goes with new pieces. I got to connect the bottom and the top of the range. Previous pieces are waaay to small.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]That's certainly a choice![/quote]
I was wanting the heavyweight version, seems it's a bit easier at centering the pitch with more weight w/maybe a cost of endurance.
I was wanting the heavyweight version, seems it's a bit easier at centering the pitch with more weight w/maybe a cost of endurance.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
If you want to see what weight will do, get a bunch of fender washers in 2" OD and 1/2" ID. You can stack them up on the shank of the mouthpiece. I did this years ago to simulate something called a "Sound Sleeve" that was popular at the time. It seemed to help my lower register without doing something to or for the upper. After a while I forgot to put on the "sound sleeve" and discovered that all the good it had done was still there. I don't know if it was placebo effect or it trained me to do something, but I'm not one to argue with success.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Elow"]I cant even play on a 1G :amazed:[/quote]
Neither can I, but it's mostly due to the shape of the rim. At one time I was playing a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B, but eventually I determined it was too big and I went to my original Doug Elliott: LB114/L/L8 (since gone to LB112 and L7). The Elliott is about as big as the Bach 1G but fit much better.
Neither can I, but it's mostly due to the shape of the rim. At one time I was playing a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B, but eventually I determined it was too big and I went to my original Doug Elliott: LB114/L/L8 (since gone to LB112 and L7). The Elliott is about as big as the Bach 1G but fit much better.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Elow"]I cant even play on a 1G :amazed:[/quote] The 1 1/2G is a nice mouthpiece, with a rim that is a tad thin. The 1G on the other hand is borderline painful for me. That .5mm off each side of the mouthpiece makes it just too thin.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Is it just me or does it seem to stick out pretty far in that pic? Could just be camera angle but that could have something to do with how it plays. Not saying it isn’t Good fit for you, I’ve known a few players who do well on CB pieces. If I were a full time bass trombone that’s probably where of end up. I used an LB116 when I was frequently subbing on bass almost exclusively for a couple months a few years ago but the switch didn’t do my tenor playing any favors.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Yes, contra pieces have a bit larger shank that doesn't go in all the way for large shank.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
Please post an audio clip. We'd all love to hear that. LOL
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
You must have a crazy lung capacity.
Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.
Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="RustBeltBass"]You must have a crazy lung capacity.
Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.[/quote]
Jeff Cortazzo with the Army Blues too. IIRC he plays something like a CB120.
Playing contra mouthpieces worked well for Paul Pollard and Tom Klaber for a while, it is possible, just very extreme.[/quote]
Jeff Cortazzo with the Army Blues too. IIRC he plays something like a CB120.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Jeff Cortazzo moved a little smaller when he retired from the Blues. I think XB 116. But yes, for years he was on CB 120 or 122 on his bass bone.
- GGJazz
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Jul 30, 2022
Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="GGJazz"]Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo[/quote]
Agreed! But everyone has to learn.
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo[/quote]
Agreed! But everyone has to learn.
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="GGJazz"]Hello all.
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo[/quote]
Lots of good points. I will point out that both Mr. Klaber and Mr. Pollard played contra cups on bass shanks. I have seen very successful players in Germany on the Klier Contrabass pieces, though.
Hello Trombonedemon .
This is just my opinion , but I think that a contra mpc does not work too well in a bass trbn .
A contra mpc is designed to work for a F tuned horn , as the contrabass trbn it is . A fourth below the Bb horn . So , his design is developed for this kind of instrument . The contrabass trbn bore is larger than a bass trbn bore ; for example , the Rath R90 contra' bore is 0,578 inches .
A contra mpc' bore is a bit larger also , as Burgerbob wrote above ; in some pieces , also the mpc' total length is longer , compared to a bass mpc .
I have a Marcinkiewicz 105 , that is 8,03 mm bore and 88,90 mm total length . The same brand bass piece I have , the EBT1 , have a 7,37 mm bore and a 81,28 mm total length .
Of course , everyone choose what prefer .
Regards
Giancarlo[/quote]
Lots of good points. I will point out that both Mr. Klaber and Mr. Pollard played contra cups on bass shanks. I have seen very successful players in Germany on the Klier Contrabass pieces, though.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Having the mouthpiece out that far will increase the perceived resistance up front, make the horn feel like it is projecting more (cylindrical instrument sound vs conical sound), and will probably make anything in the staff and above seem very unstable, but make the money range feel great.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
Got a chance to use it in a concert setting. I'm sticking with this. The extra air takes some getting used to but the extra room seems to settle my embouchure down so I don't have to shift quite as much. In spite of the measurements, the Contra does not feel that much different from the 0 G. Now this is not an advertisement, simply personal opinion. My Range hasn't suffered just endurance which will come practice. I bought Aharoni: New Method for the Modern Bass Trombone. This book is beastly and great for sight reading.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="LIBrassCo"]Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Backbore specs?
Backbore specs?
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="LIBrassCo" post_id="201117" time="1675356587" user_id="4931">
Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Backbore specs?
</QUOTE>
I was just kidding with ya, this is too big even for a tuba.
Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Backbore specs?
</QUOTE>
I was just kidding with ya, this is too big even for a tuba.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="LIBrassCo"]Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin? :idk:
Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin? :idk:
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="LIBrassCo" post_id="201117" time="1675356587" user_id="4931">
Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin? :idk:
</QUOTE>
Lol. I'm printing a handle for it to use as a teacup.
Alright, here's what you really need. 36.5mm[/quote]
Is this a mouthpiece or a washbasin? :idk:
</QUOTE>
Lol. I'm printing a handle for it to use as a teacup.
- MistedSwan
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Apr 15, 2022
Off topic, but where did you get those valve caps, they look awesome!
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="MistedSwan"]Off topic, but where did you get those valve caps, they look awesome![/quote]
Scott Sweeney out Raleigh made them for me.
Scott Sweeney out Raleigh made them for me.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="WGWTR180"]Still waiting for that audio clip![/quote]
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.
- YooperHorn
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mar 11, 2022
I'm currently using a Marcinkiewicz CH105 on my bass bone. I constantly swap between the 105, the Griego .5 and the Doug Yeo trying to see which works best and at the end of weeks of playing all 3 the 105 was great in the low range, griego had the best attack. It's hard to decide which to use. I still don't think I've found my mouthpiece....any suggestions?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="201367" time="1675606776" user_id="7573">
Still waiting for that audio clip![/quote]
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.
</QUOTE>
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is
Still waiting for that audio clip![/quote]
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.
</QUOTE>
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="trombonedemon" post_id="201421" time="1675639343" user_id="3603">
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.[/quote]
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is
</QUOTE>
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording <EMOJI seq="1f634" tseq="1f634">😴</EMOJI> though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.
Indeed. Let ne make something I find recordable. Imma have to do it when the kids are sleep or my wind ensemble has rehearsal Tuesday, I need to start recording more any how, gotta Shure plus microphone for the phone. Gotta justify the purchase.[/quote]
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is
</QUOTE>
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording <EMOJI seq="1f634" tseq="1f634">😴</EMOJI> though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place... I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat.... Hmm, plays very well though. ... Good mp though.[/quote]
Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.
Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
You're not really selling the concept.
In the meantime, I came up with a decent bass piece with my unique rim on it. Something like a .312 bore and a pretty long throat section. It plays great and is not a CB mouthpiece.
I'm sure real bass players would want a wider cup, but it works well for me!
Plastic resin actually works surprisingly well for mouthpieces!
In the meantime, I came up with a decent bass piece with my unique rim on it. Something like a .312 bore and a pretty long throat section. It plays great and is not a CB mouthpiece.
I'm sure real bass players would want a wider cup, but it works well for me!
Plastic resin actually works surprisingly well for mouthpieces!
- Fridge
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Apr 04, 2018
Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?
Fridge
Fridge
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Fridge"]Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?
Fridge[/quote]
Me or the OP? I can do both of those things with the resin piece.
Fridge[/quote]
Me or the OP? I can do both of those things with the resin piece.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]<QUOTE author="trombonedemon" post_id="213028" time="1687220466" user_id="3603">
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place... I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat.... Hmm, plays very well though. ... Good mp though.[/quote]
Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.
</QUOTE>
Right, the action is there, the intonation, not so much <EMOJI seq="1f644" tseq="1f644">🙄</EMOJI>
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place... I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat.... Hmm, plays very well though. ... Good mp though.[/quote]
Doesn't sound much like a "good mouthpiece" to me.
</QUOTE>
Right, the action is there, the intonation, not so much <EMOJI seq="1f644" tseq="1f644">🙄</EMOJI>
- ZacharyThornton
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="212840" time="1687043532" user_id="3642">
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is[/quote]
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording <EMOJI seq="1f634" tseq="1f634">😴</EMOJI> though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.
</QUOTE>
This has to be a “bait” post right? You aren’t serious?
Still waiting on a recording of any kind to see how legit this CB mouthpiece is[/quote]
I put it to tuner, the B flat is is not usable, intonation is all over the place, now the cup and the rim is immaculate. I'm thinking I might have ro shorten the shank to get it not play so flat. Hmm, plays very well though. I'm being lazy about this recording <EMOJI seq="1f634" tseq="1f634">😴</EMOJI> though after every thing else. Good mp though. I just ordered another Long Island Brass company mp in silver, a copy of the one I already have.
</QUOTE>
This has to be a “bait” post right? You aren’t serious?
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="Fridge"]Just wondering, can you play a high C? Or blend with the tenor bones?
Fridge[/quote]
If you are referring to me, sure. I can scream on the thing, I'm having to do to much to get it in tune, Imma probably save for a proper contra. If I ever get one.
Fridge[/quote]
If you are referring to me, sure. I can scream on the thing, I'm having to do to much to get it in tune, Imma probably save for a proper contra. If I ever get one.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
OK. Let me understand. [I hope I haven't missed something!]
You have purchased one or more "contra" mouthpieces (and have apparently ordered another one) but you don't have a contrabass trombone to try them on. You are disappointed that the contra mouthpiece plays flat on your plain old bass trombone. So, even though you have never played it on a contra, you are considering shortening the mouthpiece shank to make it play sharper? Did I get this right?
Let me suggest that you confer with your mouthpiece maker (Jeff) at Long Island Brass to bring you back to reality.
You also might take up Jeff on his offer to add a teacup handle to your piece. Just make sure you extend your pinky when drinking from it.
You have purchased one or more "contra" mouthpieces (and have apparently ordered another one) but you don't have a contrabass trombone to try them on. You are disappointed that the contra mouthpiece plays flat on your plain old bass trombone. So, even though you have never played it on a contra, you are considering shortening the mouthpiece shank to make it play sharper? Did I get this right?
Let me suggest that you confer with your mouthpiece maker (Jeff) at Long Island Brass to bring you back to reality.
You also might take up Jeff on his offer to add a teacup handle to your piece. Just make sure you extend your pinky when drinking from it.
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
Since I came up, I haven't made trombonedemon any contra mouthpieces. He has a couple of my 950's in my standard series, with a custom blank and throat.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
This is funny to read...
Who cares about intonation if it has a fat contra something? ;-)
Just a little story:
I had a very prominent German bass trombonist who liked our general mouthpiece design and especially the rim.
But he wanted something way bigger than what we offered. I was to a degree hesitant to do it, but finally we made I think 2 prototypes. Honestly I couldn't play them properly on bass and they were for me in the contra size range.
He did like them, but finally ended up with something else (don't know what).
Certainly he is a far far better player than I am with a fairly unique set of capabilities and talents.
I also didn't want to put much more effort into it as this was such a special request that wouldn't fit for many.
I would generally recommend to stay kind of conservative with mouthpiece sizes, especially if you are not THE top professional who knows 100% what they are doing. (Not saying all pros know this...)
Who cares about intonation if it has a fat contra something? ;-)
Just a little story:
I had a very prominent German bass trombonist who liked our general mouthpiece design and especially the rim.
But he wanted something way bigger than what we offered. I was to a degree hesitant to do it, but finally we made I think 2 prototypes. Honestly I couldn't play them properly on bass and they were for me in the contra size range.
He did like them, but finally ended up with something else (don't know what).
Certainly he is a far far better player than I am with a fairly unique set of capabilities and talents.
I also didn't want to put much more effort into it as this was such a special request that wouldn't fit for many.
I would generally recommend to stay kind of conservative with mouthpiece sizes, especially if you are not THE top professional who knows 100% what they are doing. (Not saying all pros know this...)
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
So the guy uses a contra mouthpiece in his bass. Who cares?!? If it does what he needs a piece to do, then why is it up to him to justify to anyone else that he is using it?? I haven't seen anyone questioning Jeff Cortazzo!!
Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.
Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I had to play a high C on a paid gig once (I don't get many paid gigs, though). It was an arrangement of "All of Me".
But the range from Bb on the top of the staff (Bb3) to G above (G4) is really common in bass trombone parts.
I played a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B for a while, but abandoned it since other pieces in my collection worked better. The 105 found a nice home on a 125 year old Eb tuba, though.
But the range from Bb on the top of the staff (Bb3) to G above (G4) is really common in bass trombone parts.
I played a Marcinkiewicz 105 on my King 7B for a while, but abandoned it since other pieces in my collection worked better. The 105 found a nice home on a 125 year old Eb tuba, though.
- Fridge
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Apr 04, 2018
In response to hornbuilder. I’ve been playing an opera for the last 6 weeks that goes Pedal G to high A. There are MANY big band charts that go to high A or Bb. Bruce mentioned All of Me to high C. Hell, In the Mood goes to Ab.
Eddie Clark
Eddie Clark
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
The comment was made specifically, "can you play a high C". I read the comment to be snarky. Yes. I've had to play high G, Ab, A, Bb, even B!! But I've never "had" to play a high C on the gig. I was replying with snark. I apologize if it wasn't meant that way, but there had been a number of previous comments that had definite "shade" being thrown. All because someone chose to use a contra mouthpiece on bass
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]So the guy uses a contra mouthpiece in his bass. Who cares?!? If it does what he needs a piece to do, then why is it up to him to justify to anyone else that he is using it?? I haven't seen anyone questioning Jeff Cortazzo!!
Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.[/quote]
I, too, am a bit surprised about the rhetoric here. There is not a lot of players I know who did/do well using a contrabass mp, (Paul Pollard and if I am not mistaken CV, come to mind).
I just don’t get why the player is being hassled into needing to provide proof/evidence of his playing. :idk:
Yeah, I know in this instance ultimately the intonation issues make the piece less well suited, but that isn't due to the size of the piece, it is due to the shank being too large. I've known bass trombonists who have used tuba mouthpieces (with the shank machined to suit) with great success for what they were doing. I have used my Doug Elliott contra piece (with a standard bass shank) in my bass very successfully. It played great for the situation!! Highest note I had to play was a middle Bb. How often do bass trombonists have to play a high C anyway?? I don't think I have ever had to play a high C on a paid gig.[/quote]
I, too, am a bit surprised about the rhetoric here. There is not a lot of players I know who did/do well using a contrabass mp, (Paul Pollard and if I am not mistaken CV, come to mind).
I just don’t get why the player is being hassled into needing to provide proof/evidence of his playing. :idk:
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="hornbuilder"]The comment was made specifically, "can you play a high C". I read the comment to be snarky. Yes. I've had to play high G, Ab, A, Bb, even B!! But I've never "had" to play a high C on the gig. I was replying with snark. I apologize if it wasn't meant that way, but there had been a number of previous comments that had definite "shade" being thrown. All because someone chose to use a contra mouthpiece on bass[/quote]
Matt, for me the irritation doesn't come only from using a contra mouthpiece, but from being aware that it negatively affects intonation in this case (potentially other things as well) and still sticking with it for unclear reasons.
This just sounds a bit cliche for me. I totally believe that there are people who can play very large pieces (I know some in person even), especially in settings that allow larger volumes than let's say a chamber orchestra, but too many people get tempted by it.
Matt, for me the irritation doesn't come only from using a contra mouthpiece, but from being aware that it negatively affects intonation in this case (potentially other things as well) and still sticking with it for unclear reasons.
This just sounds a bit cliche for me. I totally believe that there are people who can play very large pieces (I know some in person even), especially in settings that allow larger volumes than let's say a chamber orchestra, but too many people get tempted by it.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
That's just it, if he says it doesn't play in tune or have usable notes that it should have, how good must the sound be? I'm genuinely curious to hear it
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
I don’t intend to speak on behalf of the player in question nor can I judge him or her but I suspect (!) that what they think may be a great sound may really be merely a great FEEL.
That’s in my opinion the one danger with playing huge equipment. It feels like finally you can blow openly, allow the air through and things just seem to flow.
A potentially dangerous path to walk.
That’s in my opinion the one danger with playing huge equipment. It feels like finally you can blow openly, allow the air through and things just seem to flow.
A potentially dangerous path to walk.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
There are some who think the ability to play double pedals or make a bigger sound in the regular pedals is important for playing bass trombone. In my experience I played an awful lot more in the area above the bass clef than any pedals lower than G. Even Wagner in his contrabass trombone parts doesn't go lower than pedal G.
The range of a bass trombone generally should be from pedal F to A above the bass staff. Any more is gravy. Any less is a lost job.
Note that the 3rd trombone part in the Farandole in Bizet's "L'Arlesienne Suite 2" goes to A (A4, above middle C). Surprisingly, that lick is supposed to be played by the 1st trombone in the score, but the 1st trombone has a long series of D's (D3, in the bass staff) at that time.
The range of a bass trombone generally should be from pedal F to A above the bass staff. Any more is gravy. Any less is a lost job.
Note that the 3rd trombone part in the Farandole in Bizet's "L'Arlesienne Suite 2" goes to A (A4, above middle C). Surprisingly, that lick is supposed to be played by the 1st trombone in the score, but the 1st trombone has a long series of D's (D3, in the bass staff) at that time.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I agree with @rustbeltbass comment about feel. I know I'm susceptible to judging by feel, and it can be difficult to separate feel from sound. I think most of us go through an outlandish equipment phase. The calls for recordings were probably to call OP's attention to the actual sound.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Bizet wrote that originally for 1 French (ie small bore small bell) Tenor trombone. It was not written for bass trombone. Bass trombones weren't used in France when he wrote it. The other 2 parts were added later, and are also written for small bore tenor trombone.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="RustBeltBass"]I don’t intend to speak on behalf of the player in question nor can I judge him or her but I suspect (!) that what they think may be a great sound may really be merely a great FEEL.
That’s in my opinion the one danger with playing huge equipment. It feels like finally you can blow openly, allow the air through and things just seem to flow.
A potentially dangerous path to walk.[/quote] There have been several other threads involving discussion of progressively more open / larger mouthpieces in use by the TO, and I remember them stating that they were "injured' by a mouthpiece, I guess because the throat was too small? That only way I can think of that happening is them trying to vastly overblow the mouthpiece / horn, and ended up causing injury due to the pressure they were exerting internally.
That’s in my opinion the one danger with playing huge equipment. It feels like finally you can blow openly, allow the air through and things just seem to flow.
A potentially dangerous path to walk.[/quote] There have been several other threads involving discussion of progressively more open / larger mouthpieces in use by the TO, and I remember them stating that they were "injured' by a mouthpiece, I guess because the throat was too small? That only way I can think of that happening is them trying to vastly overblow the mouthpiece / horn, and ended up causing injury due to the pressure they were exerting internally.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The only person who wants to hear loud farting pedals is the person doing it, or maybe another bass trombone player. What's actually important is how well you can access the whole range, and of course whether it's in tune and sounds good.
Jeff Cortazzo plays what he needs to to access the full range in tune and sound good. He's moved down in size a little bit after he retired from the Army Blues.
There was a time when a 60 size mouthpiece would have been considered a contrabass, or even Eb tuba mouthpiece.
Jeff Cortazzo plays what he needs to to access the full range in tune and sound good. He's moved down in size a little bit after he retired from the Army Blues.
There was a time when a 60 size mouthpiece would have been considered a contrabass, or even Eb tuba mouthpiece.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
"The only person who wants to hear loud farting pedals is the person doing it, or maybe another bass trombone player."
No argument from me there about the first part at least!!
No argument from me there about the first part at least!!
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]Even Wagner in his contrabass trombone parts doesn't go lower than pedal G.[/quote]
The 4th trombone part in the Ring Cycle goes down to pedal E.
In the standard orchestral rep you need the high B in Hary Janos and the pedal Gs in Alpensinfonie. If you're playing other bass gigs, you need even more. I have had to play exposed pedal Cs on gigs. It's not common, but it happens. I once played the premiere of an opera that had triple forte pedal Ds all over the place. I have also had to play a few high Cs and one high D, going back to some earlier comments.
(I've also been asked to play exposed pedal Fs as loud as I possibly can from the conductor, so sometimes it's not just bass trombonists who want to hear the raunchy stuff.)
It's a 3rd tenor part. French composers did that with 3rd trombone sometimes, for example the famous Franck excerpt. My guess is that they think that the drones 1st and 2nd have are more important than the melody, because the melody is doubled by a lot of the orchestra.
The 4th trombone part in the Ring Cycle goes down to pedal E.
The range of a bass trombone generally should be from pedal F to A above the bass staff. Any more is gravy. Any less is a lost job.
In the standard orchestral rep you need the high B in Hary Janos and the pedal Gs in Alpensinfonie. If you're playing other bass gigs, you need even more. I have had to play exposed pedal Cs on gigs. It's not common, but it happens. I once played the premiere of an opera that had triple forte pedal Ds all over the place. I have also had to play a few high Cs and one high D, going back to some earlier comments.
(I've also been asked to play exposed pedal Fs as loud as I possibly can from the conductor, so sometimes it's not just bass trombonists who want to hear the raunchy stuff.)
Note that the 3rd trombone part in the Farandole in Bizet's "L'Arlesienne Suite 2" goes to A (A4, above middle C). Surprisingly, that lick is supposed to be played by the 1st trombone in the score, but the 1st trombone has a long series of D's (D3, in the bass staff) at that time.
It's a 3rd tenor part. French composers did that with 3rd trombone sometimes, for example the famous Franck excerpt. My guess is that they think that the drones 1st and 2nd have are more important than the melody, because the melody is doubled by a lot of the orchestra.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
I've often thought that some of those excerpts where the 3rd Trombone has the high exposed parts are more a matter of editing. Some of those editions are designed so that you can perform them with a smaller orchestra, and the 3rd trombone part is usually the one to play when there is not a full section there. Better to have a trombone that provides the bottom of the chord most of the time, and the editors at the publishing company assigned some of the melodic bits to the non-optional part. I know that when we play the Carmen orchestral suites, there are a few of the 1st trombone parts from the opera assigned to the 3rd part. Also, the 3rd part has a lot more cues for things like 4th horn and 2nd bassoon.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Yes, "editing" in that the score was originally written for one trombone, with the other 2 parts being added later. Evidently Bizet wanted the original single trombone part to become the 3rd part, as the 2 are very similar. The added parts provide "padding" most of the time
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Wozzeck has a pedal D.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
For the record, this contra mouthpiece hasn't allowed me to play lower, not even easier lower, what it did was allow me to move more air at faster rate. But it doesn't fit my bass intonation wise. I've been lucky 100% rate in finding and picking mouthpieces without intonation issues. Looks as if I reach my limit with this horn. A big mouthpiece is not a flex. I'm wondering if a dual bore slide would work.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]For the record, this contra mouthpiece hasn't allowed me to play lower, not even easier lower, what it did was allow me to move more air at faster rate. But it doesn't fit my bass intonation wise. I've been lucky 100% rate in finding and picking mouthpieces without intonation issues. Looks as if I reach my limit with this horn. A big mouthpiece is not a flex. I'm wondering if a dual bore slide would work.[/quote]
I think there is a good reason to use a bass trombone mothpiece with the bass trombone since the CB-mouthpiece does not give an advantage. Cool experiment! <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
/Tom
I think there is a good reason to use a bass trombone mothpiece with the bass trombone since the CB-mouthpiece does not give an advantage. Cool experiment! <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span>
/Tom
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]For the record, this contra mouthpiece hasn't allowed me to play lower, not even easier lower, what it did was allow me to move more air at faster rate. But it doesn't fit my bass intonation wise. I've been lucky 100% rate in finding and picking mouthpieces without intonation issues. Looks as if I reach my limit with this horn. A big mouthpiece is not a flex. I'm wondering if a dual bore slide would work.[/quote]
How about .576, both legs?
How about .576, both legs?
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]For the record, this contra mouthpiece hasn't allowed me to play lower, not even easier lower, what it did was allow me to move more air at faster rate. But it doesn't fit my bass intonation wise. I've been lucky 100% rate in finding and picking mouthpieces without intonation issues. Looks as if I reach my limit with this horn. A big mouthpiece is not a flex. I'm wondering if a dual bore slide would work.[/quote]
I hope I am not overstepping and if I am I apologize in advance but: From what you have been sharing it seems the issues at hand may not be related to equipment and rather your use of air/the way you blow. Maybe needing to move the air faster is not the way to go, maybe slower and controlled, gentle air will let you reach the desired results.
By now trying a dual bore slide you just open a new (expensive) can of worms. Not saying a different slide will not make any difference but for me changing a part of the equipment should in many cases be based on making something more interesting from a musical standpoint, rather than in order to just control one’s playing.
I hope I am not overstepping and if I am I apologize in advance but: From what you have been sharing it seems the issues at hand may not be related to equipment and rather your use of air/the way you blow. Maybe needing to move the air faster is not the way to go, maybe slower and controlled, gentle air will let you reach the desired results.
By now trying a dual bore slide you just open a new (expensive) can of worms. Not saying a different slide will not make any difference but for me changing a part of the equipment should in many cases be based on making something more interesting from a musical standpoint, rather than in order to just control one’s playing.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
"allow me to move more air at faster rate. "
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]"allow me to move more air at faster rate. "
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.[/quote]
How is it?
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.[/quote]
How is it?
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="213118" time="1687282334" user_id="51">
"allow me to move more air at faster rate. "
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.[/quote]
How is it?
</QUOTE>
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of air through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom
"allow me to move more air at faster rate. "
In other words it "allows" you to play less efficiently.
Great.[/quote]
How is it?
</QUOTE>
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of air through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="trombonedemon" post_id="213119" time="1687283344" user_id="3603">
How is it?[/quote]
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of ait through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom
Efficiency is about efficacy. Which varies on opinion.</QUOTE>
How is it?[/quote]
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of ait through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom
Efficiency is about efficacy. Which varies on opinion.</QUOTE>
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="imsevimse" post_id="213126" time="1687283657" user_id="3173">
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of ait through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom[/quote]
Efficiency is about efficacy. Which varies on opinion.
</QUOTE>
Okay. In that case what is the goal?
/Tom
Efficiency is about getting most/best result with the least possible effort. There is nothing efficient with getting a lot of ait through the hole. What matters is what quality of sound and playing leaves the bell. Personally I've come to the conclusion the smallest mouthpiece I can find that still makes a good enough result is what to choose.
/Tom[/quote]
Efficiency is about efficacy. Which varies on opinion.
</QUOTE>
Okay. In that case what is the goal?
/Tom
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="trombonedemon" post_id="213127" time="1687284047" user_id="3603">
Okay. In that case what is the goal?
/Tom[/quote]
Lol <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI> what ever the conductor wants in most cases. In my case fitting my chops in a mouthpiece without a lot of movement. I'm not sure why a contra mouthpiece on a bass is an issue. The rim is comfortable and backbore is the same as my regular bass, I'm not having to move my chops much with this mouthpiece which is Ideal for me. No tilting for whatever reason. This reasoning is Efficiency for me.</QUOTE>
Okay. In that case what is the goal?
/Tom[/quote]
Lol <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI> what ever the conductor wants in most cases. In my case fitting my chops in a mouthpiece without a lot of movement. I'm not sure why a contra mouthpiece on a bass is an issue. The rim is comfortable and backbore is the same as my regular bass, I'm not having to move my chops much with this mouthpiece which is Ideal for me. No tilting for whatever reason. This reasoning is Efficiency for me.</QUOTE>
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]<QUOTE author="imsevimse" post_id="213128" time="1687284348" user_id="3173">
Lol <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI> what ever the conductor wants in most cases. In my case fitting my chops in a mouthpiece without a lot of movement. I'm not sure why a contra mouthpiece on a bass is an issue. The rim is comfortable and backbore is the same as my regular bass, I'm not having to move my chops much with this mouthpiece which is Ideal for me. No tilting for whatever reason. This reasoning is Efficiency for me.[/quote]
</QUOTE>
You can use what ever you want :good: I often bring one smaller and one larger mouthpiece and switch if I have to. The larger mouthpiece could be a CB-mouthpiece if I had one and if I found it solves a particular problem. From the thread I read you have some issues with intonation and I can understand that,. I think it can be expected, but if you can adjust then why not. If a CB-mouthpiece is your mouthpiece for everything then you need serious chops. Go for it!<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
/Tom
Lol <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI> what ever the conductor wants in most cases. In my case fitting my chops in a mouthpiece without a lot of movement. I'm not sure why a contra mouthpiece on a bass is an issue. The rim is comfortable and backbore is the same as my regular bass, I'm not having to move my chops much with this mouthpiece which is Ideal for me. No tilting for whatever reason. This reasoning is Efficiency for me.[/quote]
</QUOTE>
You can use what ever you want :good: I often bring one smaller and one larger mouthpiece and switch if I have to. The larger mouthpiece could be a CB-mouthpiece if I had one and if I found it solves a particular problem. From the thread I read you have some issues with intonation and I can understand that,. I think it can be expected, but if you can adjust then why not. If a CB-mouthpiece is your mouthpiece for everything then you need serious chops. Go for it!<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
/Tom
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="trombonedemon" post_id="213129" time="1687284723" user_id="3603">[/quote]
You can use what ever you want :good: I often bring one smaller and one larger mouthpiece and switch if I have to. The larger mouthpiece could be a CB-mouthpiece if I had one and if I found it solves a particular problem. From the thread I read you have some issues with intonation and I can understand that,. I think it can be expected, but if you can adjust then why not. If a CB-mouthpiece is your mouthpiece for everything then you need serious chops. Go for it!<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
/Tom
</QUOTE>
I wasn't having problems with my original one, I just like the feel of that mouthpiece, I'm thinking the cup is to deep and shank is to long, Greg makes great mouthpieces though which why I kept playing on it, but at some point I felt as if I had to do to much chopping and down for intonation. It's OK though there's many ways of doing everything the right way <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI>
You can use what ever you want :good: I often bring one smaller and one larger mouthpiece and switch if I have to. The larger mouthpiece could be a CB-mouthpiece if I had one and if I found it solves a particular problem. From the thread I read you have some issues with intonation and I can understand that,. I think it can be expected, but if you can adjust then why not. If a CB-mouthpiece is your mouthpiece for everything then you need serious chops. Go for it!<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI>
/Tom
</QUOTE>
I wasn't having problems with my original one, I just like the feel of that mouthpiece, I'm thinking the cup is to deep and shank is to long, Greg makes great mouthpieces though which why I kept playing on it, but at some point I felt as if I had to do to much chopping and down for intonation. It's OK though there's many ways of doing everything the right way <EMOJI seq="1f606" tseq="1f606">😆</EMOJI>
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
“…I wasn't having problems with my original one, I just like the feel of that mouthpiece,”…
I’ve found that nearly every mpc that is a little bit larger than the one I’m accustomed to feels better, is more open, bigger sound etc. But eventually, my high range becomes difficult and my sound gets too dark.
I’ve found that nearly every mpc that is a little bit larger than the one I’m accustomed to feels better, is more open, bigger sound etc. But eventually, my high range becomes difficult and my sound gets too dark.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Bach5G"]“…I wasn't having problems with my original one, I just like the feel of that mouthpiece,”…
I’ve found that nearly every mpc that is a little bit larger than the one I’m accustomed to feels better, is more open, bigger sound etc. But eventually, my high range becomes difficult and my sound gets too dark.[/quote] I also have experience the mouthpiece "honeymoon period" when getting a new mouthpiece, changing setups, etc. Even the same mouthpiece with a different horn can take adjustment.
I’ve found that nearly every mpc that is a little bit larger than the one I’m accustomed to feels better, is more open, bigger sound etc. But eventually, my high range becomes difficult and my sound gets too dark.[/quote] I also have experience the mouthpiece "honeymoon period" when getting a new mouthpiece, changing setups, etc. Even the same mouthpiece with a different horn can take adjustment.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="trombonedemon"]For the record, this contra mouthpiece hasn't allowed me to play lower, not even easier lower, what it did was allow me to move more air at faster rate. But it doesn't fit my bass intonation wise. I've been lucky 100% rate in finding and picking mouthpieces without intonation issues. Looks as if I reach my limit with this horn. A big mouthpiece is not a flex. I'm wondering if a dual bore slide would work.[/quote]
Just play contrabass trombone.
The issue probably comes down to too big a throat, too open a backbore, too deep a cup, and the mouthpiece not going in far enough into the receiver. You know, like, almost every aspect.
Just play contrabass trombone.
The issue probably comes down to too big a throat, too open a backbore, too deep a cup, and the mouthpiece not going in far enough into the receiver. You know, like, almost every aspect.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
This is where I really like modular pieces because it’s easy, or at least easier, to figure out what you like and don’t like about a piece. I typically play large rims and if I was exclusively a bass player, I’d almost certainly play a CB rim size. When I was playing a lot of bass subbing for someone who had knee surgery a few years ago, I ended up gravitating to a 1.16” rim.
Something I’ve observed is that a “too small” rim feels like I can’t get enough air through. Sometimes people open up a backbone when a slightly larger inner rim diameter would be a better option for them. I wonder if that’s what you’ve experienced, and are digging the larger rim, but have chosen a piece that is bigger in all dimensions and gone “too far”. I have several of Jeff’s pieces and intonation is not a problem in the slightest on them, even on my 562/578 slide, so by default his designs can work really well. If he offered lexan I’d probably play them more! Just can’t get used to the silver or the acrylic.
At any rate, in your shoes, I’d investigate keeping the rim and getting something more “mainstream” in terms of depth and backbone. In Doug’s langauage, maybe even as shallow as a J and an “8” backbore. The larger rim should still provide the same feel and the intonation would likely fix itself. Then go deeper and larger as those issues are fixed. In terms of comparables, that’s perhaps a Bach 1.5G depth. Think I saw you had a .312 throat too, which is on the larger end.
Either that or spend a bunch of time with drones and maybe shortening the horn, but I tend to prefer to go with less drastic options first, personally.
Something I’ve observed is that a “too small” rim feels like I can’t get enough air through. Sometimes people open up a backbone when a slightly larger inner rim diameter would be a better option for them. I wonder if that’s what you’ve experienced, and are digging the larger rim, but have chosen a piece that is bigger in all dimensions and gone “too far”. I have several of Jeff’s pieces and intonation is not a problem in the slightest on them, even on my 562/578 slide, so by default his designs can work really well. If he offered lexan I’d probably play them more! Just can’t get used to the silver or the acrylic.
At any rate, in your shoes, I’d investigate keeping the rim and getting something more “mainstream” in terms of depth and backbone. In Doug’s langauage, maybe even as shallow as a J and an “8” backbore. The larger rim should still provide the same feel and the intonation would likely fix itself. Then go deeper and larger as those issues are fixed. In terms of comparables, that’s perhaps a Bach 1.5G depth. Think I saw you had a .312 throat too, which is on the larger end.
Either that or spend a bunch of time with drones and maybe shortening the horn, but I tend to prefer to go with less drastic options first, personally.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]The only person who wants to hear loud farting pedals is the person doing it, or maybe another bass trombone player.[/quote]
I‘m going to admit a guilty pleasure of listening to videos on YouTube of the Whit Friday marches and smiling when I hear the unmistakeable sound of the trombones (especially bass) really getting into it at the front of the band.
I‘m going to admit a guilty pleasure of listening to videos on YouTube of the Whit Friday marches and smiling when I hear the unmistakeable sound of the trombones (especially bass) really getting into it at the front of the band.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Hah I was going to post the meme of the monkey looking backwards but I guess I am a bass trombonist too :lol:
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
I understand that a wider rim helps so you do not need to switch to a raised emboushure. It is a reason to go bigger. I do belive thickness of lips also has something to do whith the problem. I have a friend who does not practice pedals much, not even practices his bass trombone much. He has switched to tuba many years ago. What he always can do is to play his pedals on a Bach 1/2G without a swich. He has very thin lips, and I believe this is what helps him. Thin lips can not be practised, unfortunately. The second thing to do is to back of from the face with the mouthpiece. That has helped me. Iv'e worked a lot on my pedals and can now play a pedal D without a switch on a 1 3/4G, but not very loud. If I switch to a 1G I can reach a Db but still very soft so not much difference and not much use. I guess I could have a benefit of a wider rim to get a steady more usable pedal D, Db and below and then maybe even a steady C.
A question for me is if it is worth. Maybe it is, maybe not. I once had to play a exposed pedal C on a rehearsal. I did that with my raised emboushure. It worked but I would'nt want to do that in public on a gig. I'm beginning to think I might need a real wide bass trombone mouthpiece option after all, if I ever have to do that again, but not too deep and not too open. I don't want it to suck all air.
/Tom
A question for me is if it is worth. Maybe it is, maybe not. I once had to play a exposed pedal C on a rehearsal. I did that with my raised emboushure. It worked but I would'nt want to do that in public on a gig. I'm beginning to think I might need a real wide bass trombone mouthpiece option after all, if I ever have to do that again, but not too deep and not too open. I don't want it to suck all air.
/Tom
- Olofson
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Apr 15, 2023
I know a player who can play very good on a very big mouthpiece, I think it could be a CB mouthpiece, it´s id is 30 mm. (I think the biggest basstrombone mouthpiece is 29,5 mm) he is very special, very gifted. Very big sound. Much bigger sound then most basstrombonists. But does not really sound like a CB. He does not blend very well in a section in my oppinion.
- trombonedemon
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Aug 06, 2018
[quote="Olofson"]I know a player who can play very good on a very big mouthpiece, I think it could be a CB mouthpiece, it´s id is 30 mm. (I think the biggest basstrombone mouthpiece is 29,5 mm) he is very special, very gifted. Very big sound. Much bigger sound then most basstrombonists. But does not really sound like a CB. He does not blend very well in a section in my oppinion.[/quote]
Gotta a sterling silver B3 edwards that solved that problem. Even when using the CB mp, I couldn't blend. Down side though that sucker zaps my longevity, that's what practice is for though. It's a shame though that contra mp played better than the 29.5 rim and .323 backbore he made for me. The Long Island rim does what the contra does, allows more chop, I'm afraid though if I go any deeper the results is gonna be the same for all bass mouthpieces. These things are expensive for a trial and error experiment. Imma stick to what have been working for now.
Gotta a sterling silver B3 edwards that solved that problem. Even when using the CB mp, I couldn't blend. Down side though that sucker zaps my longevity, that's what practice is for though. It's a shame though that contra mp played better than the 29.5 rim and .323 backbore he made for me. The Long Island rim does what the contra does, allows more chop, I'm afraid though if I go any deeper the results is gonna be the same for all bass mouthpieces. These things are expensive for a trial and error experiment. Imma stick to what have been working for now.
- ssking2b
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Sep 29, 2018
Check out the Michael Parker / Steve Dunkel mouthpiece. 29.5 mm rim with .317 (7.44mm) backbore. It is made of implant grade stainless steel and has a bass trombone shank. The best of contra size mouthpiece for bass trombone. It has great focus and integrity at all volumes, and has in addition to a great low register, a n excellent high range. I have played it on many occasions tp high C and beyond.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/tromb ... mouthpiece">https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/trombone-euphonium-mouthpieces/parker-steve-dunkel-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/tromb ... mouthpiece">https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/trombone-euphonium-mouthpieces/parker-steve-dunkel-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="ssking2b"]Check out the Michael Parker / Steve Dunkel mouthpiece. 29.5 mm rim with .317 (7.44mm) backbore. It is made of implant grade stainless steel and has a bass trombone shank. The best of contra size mouthpiece for bass trombone. It has great focus and integrity at all volumes, and has in addition to a great low register, a n excellent high range. I have played it on many occasions tp high C and beyond.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/tromb ... mouthpiece">https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/trombone-euphonium-mouthpieces/parker-steve-dunkel-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
29.5 is very large bass trombone size. Contra is 30mm and up.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/tromb ... mouthpiece">https://www.parkermouthpieces.com/trombone-euphonium-mouthpieces/parker-steve-dunkel-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
29.5 is very large bass trombone size. Contra is 30mm and up.
- LIBrassCo
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Feb 24, 2019
Fwiw you can absolutely effectively play contra with a 29.5mm mouthpiece.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Diameter of the cup is dictated by the suitability to your face, not the horn you're playing.
- ssking2b
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Sep 29, 2018
Well excuse me. Marcinkiewicz defines the 105 as a contra mouthpiece - and its only 29.4. I would guess that exact dimension is subjective.
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
Not a huge expert on contrabass trombone, I sold mine a few years ago, only played it for very few gigs. In Germany I played the school owned Lätzsch quite a bit…with a German mouthpiece.
What I have heard from a true contrabass trombone expert however is that many American CB mouthpieces are just a gradual continuation of bass trombone MPs. German cb mouthpiece design however seems to break away from these dimensions from what I remember him saying. I can ask for more information on this.
What I have heard from a true contrabass trombone expert however is that many American CB mouthpieces are just a gradual continuation of bass trombone MPs. German cb mouthpiece design however seems to break away from these dimensions from what I remember him saying. I can ask for more information on this.