MV 1.5G “0” Marking

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2023-01-28 9:03 p.m.

Recently acquired this beautiful MV 1.5G and it has a “0” marked on the shank. Any ideas what this means?

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2023-01-28 10:07 p.m.

BACH CORP., MT. VERNON ?

There seem to be several different fonts struck, with odd spacing, and the shank rings just below the bowl look oddly modern. How does it play, compared to a recent product?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-01-28 10:19 p.m.

Looks like a Mt Vernon to me. There are a zillion different markings on Bachs in that era. Except for the period and comma, my 6.5AL looks the same.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.bachloyalist.com/mouthpiece ... ations.htm">https://www.bachloyalist.com/mouthpiece/mouthpieces_variations.htm</LINK_TEXT>

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2023-01-28 10:27 p.m.

I've been perusing other "Mt Vernon" specimens on Google image search, and none seem to have the period/comma. On this one, MT VERNON also looks to be ever-so-slightly taller than BACH CORP too. That's why the question "How does it play?" That's the important part.

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2023-01-28 10:33 p.m.

The one example of a Bach trumpet mouthpiece on Bach Loyalist dated 1930's has a serif'd font, not the modern sans serif.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2023-01-28 11:16 p.m.

Unfortunately I haven’t gotten around to giving it a proper go. Here is the story behind this mouthpiece I received from the seller.

“ Incidentally, the Mt. Vernon mouthpiece has a little bit of a story behind it that you might find interesting. My teacher in college, John Marcellus, gave it to me at some point in the mid 90's. He said that he had a gig playing a circus in Binghamton, NY back in the early 80's. Alan Raph was booked to play bass trombone, but he got sick before the show and couldn't play so Doc ended up "doubling" on the tenor and bass books. Alan gave him his backup mouthpiece to play on the gig (the 1 ½ G that you now have). Doc liked it and ended up buying it from Mr. Raph after the gig. That mouthpiece goes down quite far into the lead pipe, but Doc had me wrap some plumber's tape around the shank so that it would stick out a bit more. I think it plays much better that way.”

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2023-01-28 11:57 p.m.

I really want to be wrong, and will gladly say "I'm a goof." I hope it plays great for you. There were some George Roberts 1-1/2G replicas that had NY, MV, and CE stamped. Maybe the "O" is related.

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2023-01-29 12:25 a.m.

The LS Bach 3 I have (Corp) with a Remington shank is stamped "Conn" on the shank. My guess is that the "O" refers to the shank taper, not an alteration to the backbore.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2023-01-29 3:36 a.m.

"O" could be for Olds, which would explain the slightly smaller taper.

Or it could be an "O" drill throat, which is .316

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2023-01-29 4:51 a.m.

[quote="heldenbone"]I've been perusing other "Mt Vernon" specimens on Google image search, and none seem to have the period/comma. On this one, MT VERNON also looks to be ever-so-slightly taller than BACH CORP too. That's why the question "How does it play?" That's the important part.[/quote] This one has the period and comma. I would assume these are roll stamped, so maybe the location was second piece? There seems to be lots of variation out there, as mentioned before.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/63857498-bach-t ... mouthpiece">https://reverb.com/item/63857498-bach-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>

soseggnchips · by **soseggnchips** » 2023-01-29 4:57 a.m.

I've got a later small shank 1.5G which also has the 'O' stamping on the shank. Given yours is a large shank and mine's a small I'm guessing it's more likely the throat than a specific taper.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · 2025-02-06 2:23 a.m.

Bumping this back up as I believe these were built for Olds receivers. I asked a member about this and he gave me a measurement of one of his mouthpieces and mine measured to the exact same spec- .535”- measured an inch down from the tip of the shank.

Oddly enough, I also acquired another MV 1.5G that was built with a Remington shank, although it isn’t stamped as such.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2025-02-06 2:26 a.m.

The “O” just about bottoms out in a regular large shank receiver.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2025-02-06 10:43 a.m.

What lead pipe is pictured in the above pics? I own and play MV 1 and 1/2Gs.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2025-02-06 5:43 p.m.

[quote="WGWTR180"]What lead pipe is pictured in the above pics? I own and play MV 1 and 1/2Gs.[/quote]

Good point. This was on my large bore with a Shires 3 pipe. I redid the photos with my Bach 50 with a Shires B1 pipe.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2025-02-07 1:44 a.m.

I think Bill is on to something. I’m a little suspicious of the leadpipe insertion depths too.

Hopefully Chris Stearn chimes in. I wonder if what you have is like the skinny shank MV 1 1/2G that was used for the Symington 1.5. The original Symington 1.5 mouthpiece go into Morse taper receivers a couple extra mm like that.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2025-02-07 8:40 a.m.

I'll take some pics and post later today. This is all very interesting.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2025-02-07 12:43 p.m.

I think Drew is correct - this shank was (very likely) made for Olds trombones which have a slightly smaller receiver.

I have an Olds G (George Roberts bass trombone mouthpiece) with such a taper, that fits perfectly in my Olds O-25 trombone.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2025-02-07 2:22 p.m.

I have an strange bach 1 1/2g. It has an screw rim marked 1g and a shank marked 62h. So when the O is on the shank I think it means Olds.

The Mt Vernon was made bye hand? Sam Burtis had some stories about the maker. A man which I don't remember the name. I believe the extra comma is a just a "typewriter" fault?

Leif

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2025-02-07 3:21 p.m.

[quote="Savio"]The Mt Vernon was made bye hand? Sam Burtis had some stories about the maker. A man which I don't remember the name.[/quote]
John "Peppy" Pettinato, perhaps?

Savio · by **Savio** » 2025-02-07 3:39 p.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Savio" post_id="266328" time="1738956153" user_id="3155">The Mt Vernon was made bye hand? Sam Burtis had some stories about the maker. A man which I don't remember the name.[/quote]
John "Peppy" Pettinato, perhaps?
</QUOTE>

:good: Yes, you remembered!

Link to the history:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://1drv.ms/b/c/1867b25e21376171/EQ ... A?e=ci6vMz">https://1drv.ms/b/c/1867b25e21376171/EQ2iul-kvpdKtHisVi5zcZ8BtHBXYSmb2Thkyg29QyGrYA?e=ci6vMz</LINK_TEXT>

Leif

boneagain · by **boneagain** » 2025-02-08 7:06 a.m.

I wonder how this would look in a Duo Gravis leadpipe?

McCracken used one of Raph's 1 1/2G mouthpieces to check the "popping frequency" match on the Duo Gravis during design. He used a trumpet-style leadpipe, so the insertion depth is pretty critical to NOT bump into the step where the leadpipe meets the reciever.

Could this be "the" 1 1/2G used in the Duo Gravis design?

Dave

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2025-02-14 5:42 p.m.

[quote="WGWTR180"]I'll take some pics and post later today. This is all very interesting.[/quote]

Any chance you were able to take those photos?

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2025-02-14 9:30 p.m.

[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="266300" time="1738935640" user_id="7573">
I'll take some pics and post later today. This is all very interesting.[/quote]

Any chance you were able to take those photos?
</QUOTE>

Sorry busy preparing a recital. I'll do it Saturday.

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MV 1.5G “0” Marking