Oddball reverse-slide frankenhorn- super cool
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Quinn put up a couple horns recently- I think there was a thread about the one with the Edwards bell, though I can't find it. The other one was just on ebay for a very low price... and only 1 other person seemed to bid on it.
I'll fully admit I only bid because it has a stainless Thayer on it. I thought it was just an unfinished project with random bits.
Well, yes... it is an unfinished project with random bits. But it's functional!
Instead of the slide just being not-done, it's a fully functional .500-.547 dual bore reverse slide. It has a super-duper long (I assume just untrimmed) rose brass outer on the lower slide, with a bit of inner slide showing at the bottom in first position.
The rest of the horn is also interesting, though it's hard to top that... Stainless thayer, reverse F attachment tubing, and what I can only assume is Blessing B78 tuning slide and bell- it's red brass and 8 inches with no markings.
The largest surprise of all is that it plays... well? Actually well? As built, it's a bit too long so the tuning slide needs a trim. Other than that and the obvious slide alignment issues (and no linkage on the valve, and the former set screw broken off in the spindle... oops, former owner at some point) it's a pretty good horn! I can see why people like these dual bores.
Even cooler, the slide has a Bach connector, so I can use it on my 42T... can't wait to try that some!!!
I'll fully admit I only bid because it has a stainless Thayer on it. I thought it was just an unfinished project with random bits.
Well, yes... it is an unfinished project with random bits. But it's functional!
Instead of the slide just being not-done, it's a fully functional .500-.547 dual bore reverse slide. It has a super-duper long (I assume just untrimmed) rose brass outer on the lower slide, with a bit of inner slide showing at the bottom in first position.
The rest of the horn is also interesting, though it's hard to top that... Stainless thayer, reverse F attachment tubing, and what I can only assume is Blessing B78 tuning slide and bell- it's red brass and 8 inches with no markings.
The largest surprise of all is that it plays... well? Actually well? As built, it's a bit too long so the tuning slide needs a trim. Other than that and the obvious slide alignment issues (and no linkage on the valve, and the former set screw broken off in the spindle... oops, former owner at some point) it's a pretty good horn! I can see why people like these dual bores.
Even cooler, the slide has a Bach connector, so I can use it on my 42T... can't wait to try that some!!!
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I'm not sure if it's the same horn but I have played one built that way. I don't remember the name of the guy who had it done. It played well, but different ..
- DougHulme
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Apr 27, 2018
The thread was "If we are talking Frankenbones, see this!"... I am guessing the two horns were created by the same person since they appeared at the same time?... Doug
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
Pics tell the rest of the story.
- Beanett
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Oct 26, 2022
I don't understand what is meant by a 'reverse slide' and 'reverse f attachment tubing'. Is it built in some specific way or is the dual bore reversed? An overview would be nice
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Beanett"]I don't understand what is meant by a 'reverse slide' and 'reverse f attachment tubing'. Is it built in some specific way or is the dual bore reversed? An overview would be nice[/quote]
If you look carefully, the slide brace is not attached to the lower outer slide. In fact, the upper outer tube and the lower inner tube constitute the slide. It's way more complicated than it should be.
The rationale for this arrangement is that this way the end of a tube always goes into a larger tube. On a conventional slide, the end of the upper inner tube goes into a larger tube (the outer slide or crook) and then the air goes into the lower inner tube, which is smaller.
Does it make a big difference? Probably not. Does it make caring for the thing more complicated? Yes.
If you look carefully, the slide brace is not attached to the lower outer slide. In fact, the upper outer tube and the lower inner tube constitute the slide. It's way more complicated than it should be.
The rationale for this arrangement is that this way the end of a tube always goes into a larger tube. On a conventional slide, the end of the upper inner tube goes into a larger tube (the outer slide or crook) and then the air goes into the lower inner tube, which is smaller.
Does it make a big difference? Probably not. Does it make caring for the thing more complicated? Yes.
- Beanett
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Oct 26, 2022
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="Beanett" post_id="202591" time="1676736688" user_id="15841">
I don't understand what is meant by a 'reverse slide' and 'reverse f attachment tubing'. Is it built in some specific way or is the dual bore reversed? An overview would be nice[/quote]
Does it make a big difference? Probably not. Does it make caring for the thing more complicated? Yes.
</QUOTE>
Thank you for the explanation!
I could see people making the argument that with a slightly less restricted airflow the horn plays better but it would be very minimal at most
I don't understand what is meant by a 'reverse slide' and 'reverse f attachment tubing'. Is it built in some specific way or is the dual bore reversed? An overview would be nice[/quote]
Does it make a big difference? Probably not. Does it make caring for the thing more complicated? Yes.
</QUOTE>
Thank you for the explanation!
I could see people making the argument that with a slightly less restricted airflow the horn plays better but it would be very minimal at most
- quinntheeskimo
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Nov 11, 2019
Courturior did a trombone like this back in the 20s or 30s. I've got one somewhere in my collection. I find it unwieldy-interesting idea but not worth it.
- whitbey
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I played one with a french horn bell on it made by a guy in MI. The reverse slide worked and played well.
- Kbiggs
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
I wonder how long this instrument, or others like it, have been play-tested? I would be concerned that the incomplete main slide brace might twist or torque the slide after awhile. The reversed second slide tubes (the second yard of the slide), with less stability due to the incomplete slide brace, might make it even more susceptible to twisting the tubes out of alignment.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="Kbiggs"]I wonder how long this instrument, or others like it, have been play-tested? I would be concerned that the incomplete main slide brace might twist or torque the slide after awhile. The reversed second slide tubes (the second yard of the slide), with less stability due to the incomplete slide brace, might make it even more susceptible to twisting the tubes out of alignment.[/quote]
You could connect the slide brace, with a collar that slid over the outer slide of the bottom leg, maybe a bearing inside it. That would add friction I guess - maybe you need a maglev bearing.
You could connect the slide brace, with a collar that slid over the outer slide of the bottom leg, maybe a bearing inside it. That would add friction I guess - maybe you need a maglev bearing.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="timothy42b"]
You could connect the slide brace, with a collar that slid over the outer slide of the bottom leg, maybe a bearing inside it. That would add friction I guess - maybe you need a maglev bearing.[/quote]
Yes, some of the other reverse slide trombones have just that- a floating collar around the lower. I'm not sure how much it would help, TBH.
[quote="Kbiggs"]I wonder how long this instrument, or others like it, have been play-tested? I would be concerned that the incomplete main slide brace might twist or torque the slide after awhile. The reversed second slide tubes (the second yard of the slide), with less stability due to the incomplete slide brace, might make it even more susceptible to twisting the tubes out of alignment.[/quote]
Oh, it twists easily. It's probably not finished, as the slide brace is simply an unsoldered end- there's no cap or anything. That said, it works and is playable as is if you change your slide technique to match.
You could connect the slide brace, with a collar that slid over the outer slide of the bottom leg, maybe a bearing inside it. That would add friction I guess - maybe you need a maglev bearing.[/quote]
Yes, some of the other reverse slide trombones have just that- a floating collar around the lower. I'm not sure how much it would help, TBH.
[quote="Kbiggs"]I wonder how long this instrument, or others like it, have been play-tested? I would be concerned that the incomplete main slide brace might twist or torque the slide after awhile. The reversed second slide tubes (the second yard of the slide), with less stability due to the incomplete slide brace, might make it even more susceptible to twisting the tubes out of alignment.[/quote]
Oh, it twists easily. It's probably not finished, as the slide brace is simply an unsoldered end- there's no cap or anything. That said, it works and is playable as is if you change your slide technique to match.