medium bore mouthpieces with a 3G-size rim

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 11:31 a.m.

I'm looking to get a medium bore trombone with valve soon. I'll need a 3G sized rim to feel comfortable playing it. Currently, for small bore I play on a DE XT104 with a C+ cup and D2 shank. The cup and shank will probably be too small to be optimal on medium bore, I was thinking that an E/E4 might be my best bet?

norbie2018 · by **norbie2018** » 2023-02-23 11:37 a.m.

Why not contact Doug directly for a suggestion? He may see this and answer it, though.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 11:48 a.m.

[quote="norbie2018"]Why not contact Doug directly for a suggestion? He may see this and answer it, though.[/quote]

I sent him a PM, I figured that was the best way! But it would be interesting to hear what others use on their medium bores.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2023-02-23 12:11 p.m.

Answering both here and the PM:

Definitely yes, the E with E4 is a great choice for actual use as a "medium bore."

If you have in mind using it more as a substitute for a large bore, you might do better with a deeper cup F, F+, or G.

Or if you have in mind using it more as a substitute for small bore, D with D4 or D+ with D+4.

Lots of flexibility.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 12:34 p.m.

Yep, I found an XT E cup, so I’ll just need an E4 shank now

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-02-23 12:38 p.m.

You might also be more explicit about the bore size. Different people have different things in mind when they say "medium bore". 525, 508, 500? For the 525 I'd definitely use the E cup. If it's a King, you might get away with a smaller size. If it's a shires, it might like a larger size. I usually use an E cup on my 79h. To get a snappier sound I might move to a D. 500 bore I typically use C, although I might use a D to thicken the sound a little. Once used an E on a 48h to try to come closer to some 547s in a classical setting. Most horns will accept a range, as Doug mentioned.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 1:11 p.m.

I don't know exactly what horn I'll be getting yet. Most likely a used Bach 36B which is a 525. I'll figure it out when I go to Dillon and test play some horns. I plan to use this horn for show work.

Aznguyy · by **Aznguyy** » 2023-02-23 1:17 p.m.

Doug's D+ cup is a nice fit for the Bach 36B. It gives a hair of brightness but still has the E cup feel.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 1:48 p.m.

[quote="Aznguyy"]Doug's D+ cup is a nice fit for the Bach 36B. It gives a hair of brightness but still has the E cup feel.[/quote]

MIght be what I want for show work. I already do have an E cup, but I imagine D+ might be better for me.

Aznguyy · by **Aznguyy** » 2023-02-23 2:18 p.m.

[quote="JeffBone44"]<QUOTE author="Aznguyy" post_id="203069" time="1677176242" user_id="3195">
Doug's D+ cup is a nice fit for the Bach 36B. It gives a hair of brightness but still has the E cup feel.[/quote]

MIght be what I want for show work. I already do have an E cup, but I imagine D+ might be better for me.
</QUOTE>

The D+ is perfect for me when I do shows, especially when I'm the only trombone. I also have a F+(F cup works too, I just like it a hair bigger) cup for shows where the music is more orchestral but at the same time a large bore is not needed. One of the beauties of Doug's setup(I will never doubt him again...)

Trav1s · by **Trav1s** » 2023-02-23 3:00 p.m.

I use one Doug's setup on my 79H. While at ITF 2018, he tried multiple different combos with me before I settled on the LT102/D/D4.

EriKon · by **EriKon** » 2023-02-23 3:01 p.m.

E and E4 is a phenomenal combination for basically everything with a Bach 36. Works great on show stuff but also for jazz or commercial and I can imagine even for 1st trombone in classical orchestra music.

Right now playing a show on my Bach 36 on the F+ G4 combination which makes the sound more orchestral and it works perfectly for this one. All XT series. I would agree 100% with Doug's description above.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-23 4:44 p.m.

Looks like I'll be getting a late 1930's Conn 78H special red brass from the BrassArk! Noah says I'm going to love it for playing shows.

Based on what's being said, it's probably worth it to get two cups - a D+ and F or F+.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2023-02-23 6:32 p.m.

Love my D+ cup for my medium bores. I didn’t think it would be possible to supplant my E cup after the new shanks came out but it’s just absolutely a perfect balance for me.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-02-23 9:34 p.m.

For medium bore, I use Doug Elliott's LT series Cup & Rim and - per Doug's suggestion, a newer E4 (star) shank.

So my setup for a Conn 79H (or Bach 36) is LT 101 Rim / LT E Cup / E* Shank. Works great for me.

To emulate a 3G, you'd have to go to an LT 102.5 or LT 103 Rim. Definitely worth a try! :good:

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2023-02-24 5:18 a.m.

104, actually. Which is what I’ve been in for about a decade now.

JeffBone44 · by **JeffBone44** » 2023-02-24 6:06 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]For medium bore, I use Doug Elliott's LT series Cup & Rim and - per Doug's suggestion, a newer E4 (star) shank.

So my setup for a Conn 79H (or Bach 36) is LT 101 Rim / LT E Cup / E* Shank. Works great for me.

To emulate a 3G, you'd have to go to an LT 102.5 or LT 103 Rim. Definitely worth a try! :good:[/quote]

Yes, I use the XT104. 102-103 is more like a 4G.

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medium bore mouthpieces with a 3G-size rim