Does gold plating “warm” the sound?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The slipperiness of gold changes the sound a little bit for some people but not others. I really think it's just the difference in the way your lip vibration is affected by the friction between your lips and the surface.
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
This morning I picked up an older style gold plated Schilke 51 that I had re-gold-plated by a fellow in Bellingham WA. It had a few scratches in the rim that I could feel ever so slightly when I played.
When I tried it out I was immediately struck by how warm it sounded. I tried it on my .525 and .547 horns and compared it with a newer-style silver plated 51.
I have been using a Bach 6 1/2 AL and a Bach 11C on my horns while the pieces were at the shop and that probably colours my perceptions and probably my chops. But there you are.
When I tried it out I was immediately struck by how warm it sounded. I tried it on my .525 and .547 horns and compared it with a newer-style silver plated 51.
I have been using a Bach 6 1/2 AL and a Bach 11C on my horns while the pieces were at the shop and that probably colours my perceptions and probably my chops. But there you are.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]The slipperiness of gold changes the sound a little bit for some people but not others. I really think it's just the difference in the way your lip vibration is affected by the friction between your lips and the surface.[/quote]
It changes the sound a little for me, and my preference seems to depend on the rim contour - though it's probably other factors as well. On my Doug Elliott mouthpieces I prefer the definition I get with silver; when I put on a gold plated rim it sounds too "warm" to me. When I played Laskey mouthpieces, which had a much more pronounced bite to the inner edge of the rim I liked them much better gold-plated. I preferred the sound and found them much more comfortable to play. I've also played Greg Black mouthpieces in both silver and gold plating, and I never formed a strong opinion with those.
It changes the sound a little for me, and my preference seems to depend on the rim contour - though it's probably other factors as well. On my Doug Elliott mouthpieces I prefer the definition I get with silver; when I put on a gold plated rim it sounds too "warm" to me. When I played Laskey mouthpieces, which had a much more pronounced bite to the inner edge of the rim I liked them much better gold-plated. I preferred the sound and found them much more comfortable to play. I've also played Greg Black mouthpieces in both silver and gold plating, and I never formed a strong opinion with those.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]The slipperiness of gold changes the sound a little bit for some people but not others. I really think it's just the difference in the way your lip vibration is affected by the friction between your lips and the surface.
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.[/quote]
The slipperiness does make a difference because you can slide a bit on the mouthpiece and that can help in many ways, but I play silverplated because it's cheaper. Haven't thought going gold, but maybe that is a real good idea? I can see the Nils Landgren Yamaha signatue mouthpiece I use is available goldplated but.... now, if I think of it more closely a goldplated bass trombone mouthpiece would probably be a better investment because it can help me slide into that raised embouchure setting I need around pedal Eb and below to play loud. :good:
Once again Trombonechat has given me an idea. Thanks! :hi:
/Tom
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.[/quote]
The slipperiness does make a difference because you can slide a bit on the mouthpiece and that can help in many ways, but I play silverplated because it's cheaper. Haven't thought going gold, but maybe that is a real good idea? I can see the Nils Landgren Yamaha signatue mouthpiece I use is available goldplated but.... now, if I think of it more closely a goldplated bass trombone mouthpiece would probably be a better investment because it can help me slide into that raised embouchure setting I need around pedal Eb and below to play loud. :good:
Once again Trombonechat has given me an idea. Thanks! :hi:
/Tom
- dukesboneman
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
I did the reverse a number of years ago. I had Schilke make me a 46D Rim in Silver and a 51 Bottom in Gold Plate.
I think it Warmed the sound a bit
I think it Warmed the sound a bit
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I haven't played gold that much, but I did buy all the different materials for DE rims and did a side by side play test. I got lexan, silver and gold plate from Doug, then got a stainless rim from Parker (which almost nearly fits DE XT cups). The only sound difference I noticed was the stainless. It was a stronger sound, brighter, maybe more strident is the right word. The others were just a difference in feel. I expected the lexan to sound somewhat different, but it didn't.
In the end, I went with lexan because it's playable in any temperature (hot or cold), and strangely it doesn't build up lip gunk like the other materials do. I keep the stainless rim in case I ever need that kind of sound (usually on smaller tenors).
I can't imagine the thickness of plating being enough material to make any kind of difference other than contact, as most people notice. There' s just not enough mass there to make anything happen. Steel makes a difference because it's denser and harder than brass. A solid gold mouthpiece would change the sound significantly. Also would lighten the wallet to a great extent. :good:
Also, I just had the materials on the rims, not on the entire mouthpiece. So there may be a difference there as well.
In the end, I went with lexan because it's playable in any temperature (hot or cold), and strangely it doesn't build up lip gunk like the other materials do. I keep the stainless rim in case I ever need that kind of sound (usually on smaller tenors).
I can't imagine the thickness of plating being enough material to make any kind of difference other than contact, as most people notice. There' s just not enough mass there to make anything happen. Steel makes a difference because it's denser and harder than brass. A solid gold mouthpiece would change the sound significantly. Also would lighten the wallet to a great extent. :good:
Also, I just had the materials on the rims, not on the entire mouthpiece. So there may be a difference there as well.
- modelerdc
- Posts: 352
- Joined: May 03, 2018
Gold plating makes the sound darker but only when I can see the mouthpiece. When I can’t see the mpc gold sounds pretty much the same as silver.
- BashBilge
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mar 18, 2023
I have a Griego .25 that is gold plated and I am very fond of it. It is quite worn now and I am going to have it replated. I have to say, though, I’m doing that because I like the feel of it not because I think it colors the sound to any appreciable degree.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="203704" time="1677795507" user_id="51">
The slipperiness of gold changes the sound a little bit for some people but not others. I really think it's just the difference in the way your lip vibration is affected by the friction between your lips and the surface.
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.[/quote]
The slipperiness does make a difference because you can slide a bit on the mouthpiece and that can help in many ways, but I play silverplated because it's cheaper. Haven't thought going gold, but maybe that is a real good idea? I can see the Nils Landgren Yamaha signatue mouthpiece I use is available goldplated but.... now, if I think of it more closely a goldplated bass trombone mouthpiece would probably be a better investment because it can help me slide into that raised embouchure setting I need around pedal Eb and below to play loud. :good:
Once again Trombonechat has given me an idea. Thanks! :hi:
/Tom
</QUOTE>
Yes, I got that goldplated Nils Landgren Yamaha signature mouthpiece now... and it works just as good as the silverplated one, but feels better on the lips. Have to remember to shave now before each practice or the gold will be worn out quickly.
/Tom
The slipperiness of gold changes the sound a little bit for some people but not others. I really think it's just the difference in the way your lip vibration is affected by the friction between your lips and the surface.
It would be interesting to compare a freshly plated new rim with one that has had some use and normal surface scratches.[/quote]
The slipperiness does make a difference because you can slide a bit on the mouthpiece and that can help in many ways, but I play silverplated because it's cheaper. Haven't thought going gold, but maybe that is a real good idea? I can see the Nils Landgren Yamaha signatue mouthpiece I use is available goldplated but.... now, if I think of it more closely a goldplated bass trombone mouthpiece would probably be a better investment because it can help me slide into that raised embouchure setting I need around pedal Eb and below to play loud. :good:
Once again Trombonechat has given me an idea. Thanks! :hi:
/Tom
</QUOTE>
Yes, I got that goldplated Nils Landgren Yamaha signature mouthpiece now... and it works just as good as the silverplated one, but feels better on the lips. Have to remember to shave now before each practice or the gold will be worn out quickly.
/Tom
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
I had my 1940s Bach 12SC redone with gold rim and cup last year, partly on recommendation of pro tuba player friend, and partly for the looks. Love it, didn’t change normal range tones that I could notice, but just felt a lot better. It was beginning to show it’s age, so I can’t really say how it would have been new, or simply replated in silver. Lows and pedals easy as ever, and highs are easier and sound smoother. Now if I could just find a trumpet mouthpiece I enjoy as much as the old Bach…
- Boneuphtoner
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Jul 05, 2018
Besides the rim, Doug Yeo writes in his development of his Yamaha signature mouthpiece that gold plating of the backbore made a difference for him: "... to have the backbore gold plated - the sound is, for me, more smooth and free than those that were silver plated."
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/f ... piece.html">https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/faq_text/mouthpiece.html</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/f ... piece.html">https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/faq_text/mouthpiece.html</LINK_TEXT>
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Warm describes a temperature, not sound. Like everyone else says, the mouthpiece will feel different so you will play different. I noticed that gold seems to get warmer faster, temperature wise. No idea if that is all just in my head. If you want a "warmer" sound, a bigger deeper cup and more open backbore will do far more than gold plating will. Or is that a "darker" sound? Are those the same thing?
I always thought of a "warm" sound as being more about articulations. The classic bass trombone legato is warm, in my mind. Charlie Vernon playing bach. That has nearly nothing to do with what the mouthpiece is plated with, considering the other gear factors at play.
I always thought of a "warm" sound as being more about articulations. The classic bass trombone legato is warm, in my mind. Charlie Vernon playing bach. That has nearly nothing to do with what the mouthpiece is plated with, considering the other gear factors at play.