Instrument value
- Kneesks
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Nov 05, 2022
Realistically, does anybody here have any like gripes(?) Against expensive brands/bones like Thein, BAC Etc? Personally I'm wondering if they are really worth the high cost for what you get. Like Thein has a really good reputation, but is it worth 9k?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
For the average player these high priced and customized instruments won't make you play any better. Pro model customary brands will be more than adequate. A nice Bach 42/36, Yamaha Xeno, Conn 88H Gen II, Jupiter XO, or Getzen 3047 will serve nicely.
If you must have the most expensive, the high priced spread is all you will consider.
If you are at a very high level, you may notice the improvement from the expensive instruments. But you are paying a lot of money for a small improvement. For a competitive pro this expense is worthwhile.
If you are playing for people who listen with their eyes and know these instruments, you may be forced to buy them to satisfy your audience. Most of the time this will not be the case.
If the cost is not an issue and you like the sound you get from the expensive instrument, it's a nice investment in your happiness.
Note that trombones are relatively inexpensive instruments. Look at prices for (for example) oboes, bassoons, flutes, French Horns, and especially strings (violins, violas, and cellos). A top line bassoon costs as much as 2 1/2 Thein trombones. A top line cello can cost upwards of 5 Thein trombones.
If you must have the most expensive, the high priced spread is all you will consider.
If you are at a very high level, you may notice the improvement from the expensive instruments. But you are paying a lot of money for a small improvement. For a competitive pro this expense is worthwhile.
If you are playing for people who listen with their eyes and know these instruments, you may be forced to buy them to satisfy your audience. Most of the time this will not be the case.
If the cost is not an issue and you like the sound you get from the expensive instrument, it's a nice investment in your happiness.
Note that trombones are relatively inexpensive instruments. Look at prices for (for example) oboes, bassoons, flutes, French Horns, and especially strings (violins, violas, and cellos). A top line bassoon costs as much as 2 1/2 Thein trombones. A top line cello can cost upwards of 5 Thein trombones.
- Kneesks
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Nov 05, 2022
Right. I absolutely do not plan to buy one, I don't have that kinda money. But mostly just curious about if they truly are worth their value. Never thought about it from a professional side.
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
If you read a bit hear, you'll find plenty of gripe against BAC.
Thein is an odd case. They obviously make very good instruments. But they kind of stand out as the top German maker everywhere except in Germany itself. I guess they succeeded in marketing themselves abroad and having deals with major foreign players. In Germany they seem to be considered just one of several very good makers.
Is it worth $9K? That's a subjective question. It can be worth it to someone and not to someone else. What's for sure is that a $9K Thein won't play twice as good as a $4.5K instrument...
Thein is an odd case. They obviously make very good instruments. But they kind of stand out as the top German maker everywhere except in Germany itself. I guess they succeeded in marketing themselves abroad and having deals with major foreign players. In Germany they seem to be considered just one of several very good makers.
Is it worth $9K? That's a subjective question. It can be worth it to someone and not to someone else. What's for sure is that a $9K Thein won't play twice as good as a $4.5K instrument...
- Chronos91
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Jul 10, 2022
[quote="Kneesks"]Right. I absolutely do not plan to buy one, I don't have that kinda money. But mostly just curious about if they truly are worth their value. Never thought about it from a professional side.
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.[/quote]
Yeah, it's nice for sure, especially as someone who plays another "cheap" family of instruments (saxes). That said, I do wonder how the diminishing return curve works for other instrument families. I actually have a Trevor James Cantabile flute too that I'll mess with (not often enough). I wonder about how much more you get when paying $5k or $10k or even more on flutes compared to mine, which is an intermediate. And also how you decide when it's not worth it to keep moving up in price because my understanding is that high level flautists are also expected to play piccolo and sometimes even low flutes too.
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.[/quote]
Yeah, it's nice for sure, especially as someone who plays another "cheap" family of instruments (saxes). That said, I do wonder how the diminishing return curve works for other instrument families. I actually have a Trevor James Cantabile flute too that I'll mess with (not often enough). I wonder about how much more you get when paying $5k or $10k or even more on flutes compared to mine, which is an intermediate. And also how you decide when it's not worth it to keep moving up in price because my understanding is that high level flautists are also expected to play piccolo and sometimes even low flutes too.
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
The same question could be asked of a car. If your goal is transportation any make or model will work. If you want style, ultimate performance, engineering, manufacturing excellence, and exclusivity only the top makes will do. So it is with a trombone. While there are Ford and Chevy people there are also Bach and Conn people. It would suck to live in the former Soviet Union where choice was a Lada.
- jonphilpott
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Feb 10, 2022
I think the real question is whether the relationship between "quality" (not necessarily craftmanship but all the things that can make a horn nice) and price is linear? or is it more like a cheaper horn is 90% of the way there, but there's something very special in that other 10% that justifies the additional cost
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="jonphilpott"]I think the real question is whether the relationship between "quality" (not necessarily craftmanship but all the things that can make a horn nice) and price is linear? or is it more like a cheaper horn is 90% of the way there, but there's something very special in that other 10% that justifies the additional cost[/quote]
It becomes less linear the closer one approaches "perfection" until one reaches a point where one is spending a huge amount of money for a tiny improvement.
It becomes less linear the closer one approaches "perfection" until one reaches a point where one is spending a huge amount of money for a tiny improvement.
- Geordie
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
In response to the OP’s question, I tend to be guided by sound and feel/playability. Unless the horn moves the dial on these sort of intrinsic features, the external features like brand name and price become less relevant for me.
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
If you feel it is worth it to you, to buy an expensive instrument, because of factors in feel and/or sound, then the purchase is justified. If you buy it just to show off you really are wasting your money.
- JeffBone44
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Oct 24, 2022
I have Shires for all my horns. Can I get by with a good Bach, Conn, King or Yamaha? Sure. But I do notice a difference with the custom boutique horns and mouthpieces. When they're tailored to fit me correctly, I'm more comfortable, my chops work better, and I play better. Although I do like to show off my expensive horns as a bonus! :pant:
On the other hand, I'm a miserable golfer. I can shoot 50 over par just the same with a $100 set or a $5000 set of clubs. Spending thousands on clubs will just put me into debt with no return for my money. So I won't be splurging for a new set of golf clubs anytime soon.
On the other hand, I'm a miserable golfer. I can shoot 50 over par just the same with a $100 set or a $5000 set of clubs. Spending thousands on clubs will just put me into debt with no return for my money. So I won't be splurging for a new set of golf clubs anytime soon.
- Dennis
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="Kneesks"]
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.[/quote]
That's entry level for a pro flute: a "mass" produced Yamaha or Pearl or Miyazawa or a "Haynes" Amadeus.
Add 10K to that if you want a handmade Haynes or Powell or Burkhardt in silver with a few gewgaws (like a gold lip plate and riser). You want gold? check the market price on gold...
It is kinda interesting how "cheap" trombones are in comparison to other instruments. Like a mid level Professional flute around 7k is pretty crazy.[/quote]
That's entry level for a pro flute: a "mass" produced Yamaha or Pearl or Miyazawa or a "Haynes" Amadeus.
Add 10K to that if you want a handmade Haynes or Powell or Burkhardt in silver with a few gewgaws (like a gold lip plate and riser). You want gold? check the market price on gold...