Nice lacquer removal accident

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-04-11 9:33 p.m.

Took the lacquer off this cut 50 bell today and ended up with an Inderbinen-like finish-

muschem · by **muschem** » 2023-04-11 9:48 p.m.

Nice!

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2023-04-12 9:28 a.m.

I have heard of people stripping the lacquer off their horns and then placing the horn in a plastic bag with hard-boiled eggs to achieve the patina that you have on your horn. The sulfur in the eggs accelerates the reaction.

Aiden, I’m wondering what is in your air that created that patina so quickly?

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2023-04-12 10:36 a.m.

Now lacquer it so it doesn't degrade....

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-04-12 11:10 a.m.

[quote="hornbuilder"]Now lacquer it so it doesn't degrade....[/quote]

Too much work!

[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"].

Aiden, I’m wondering what is in your air that created that patina so quickly?[/quote]

I'm not exactly sure, but I think it's a combo of the oven cleaner and steam cleaner I use to take the lacquer off. I'm going to experiment with another bell soon to see if I can replicate it.

studiohorn · by **studiohorn** » 2023-04-12 12:39 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Took the lacquer off this cut 50 bell today and ended up with an Inderbinen-like finish-

[/quote]

Pretty cool! Is the bell going to deteriorate at all now? Are you going to treat it any further? I’m curious if this negatively affected it at all.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-04-12 1:38 p.m.

It's just normal tarnish- if I polished it it would look totally regular.

biggiesmalls · by **biggiesmalls** » 2023-04-13 9:57 a.m.

I de-lacquered a bell with oven cleaner a few years ago and got a similar result. I offered to polish it when a buyer came along but they really liked the unique patina.

JKno · by **JKno** » 2023-04-14 6:30 p.m.

Those are cool!

greenbean · 2023-04-14 10:39 p.m.

I agree. It’s time to experiment!

SFA · by **SFA** » 2023-04-15 12:21 a.m.

May I have some instructions on how to accomplish these results please.

Thanks,

Steve.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-04-15 12:28 a.m.

I use EZ-Off Heavy Duty oven cleaner. I spray any spots that have lacquer, then let it sit for a while (this is all outside, of course).

I just got a steam cleaner from Harbor Freight, so I put on a mask and eye protection, and really hit those spots with lacquer with the steam cleaner while steaming off the oven cleaner. Sometimes I have to scrape a bit at the lacquer with the steam cleaner bit (which is a pretty soft plastic... I haven't noticed any scratches).

I did this recently to a King 608 that I've been trying to remove the lacquer from for... probably two months, and it got the rest off in short order. No cool patina though.

On this horn, the patina showed up right away... I think my first couple passes with oven cleaner (which did not remove all the lacquer), I didn't shake up the oven cleaner can. Perhaps, and I'm totally guessing, whatever chemical comes out that is not yet mixed does something with the patina, added in with the steam from the steam cleaner. I really couldn't tell you.

SFA · by **SFA** » 2023-04-15 12:36 a.m.

Thanks Aiden.

elmsandr · by **elmsandr** » 2023-04-15 9:18 a.m.

[quote="SFA"]May I have some instructions on how to accomplish these results please.

Thanks,

Steve.[/quote]
For some science on how to achieve different types of colors….

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text=" https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina- ... opper.aspx"> https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx</LINK_TEXT>

Cheers,

Andy

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2023-04-15 11:42 a.m.

I seem to remember Mike Corrigan at the Horn Doctor offering this sort of finish if wanted - he obviously has a process that is controllable and reproducable to order?... Doug

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-04-15 12:19 p.m.

Inderbinen also has a pretty uniform finish they do that is similar.

HermanGerman · by **HermanGerman** » 2023-04-16 4:50 a.m.

Besson 940, raw brass plus black oxyde very easy to do

HermanGerman · by **HermanGerman** » 2023-04-16 4:57 a.m.

2<ATTACHMENT filename="IMG_20230201_110029.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~IMG_20230201_110029.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2023-04-16 9:25 a.m.

so how do you do the "easy to do"?... Doug

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2023-04-16 10:29 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]so how do you do the "easy to do"?... Doug[/quote]

DIY chemistry as per Andy's post:
[quote="elmsandr"]~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-F ... opper.aspx">https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

and/or there are dozens of proprietary cold patination products out there, usually selenious acid for dark blue/black and nitric for brown - degrease first, immerse, then wax/jade oil to finish

HermanGerman · by **HermanGerman** » 2023-04-16 10:48 a.m.

yes, one minute work with a soft cloth

CuriousKen · by **CuriousKen** » 2023-07-22 2:58 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Took the lacquer off this cut 50 bell today and ended up with an Inderbinen-like finish-

[/quote]

What did you use to polish that off (assuming you did)?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-07-22 4:00 p.m.

[quote="CuriousKen"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="207378" time="1681263239" user_id="3131">
Took the lacquer off this cut 50 bell today and ended up with an Inderbinen-like finish-

[/quote]

What did you use to polish that off (assuming you did)?
</QUOTE>

The patina? I've left it as such for now.

Sniffynose · by **Sniffynose** » 2023-07-22 4:20 p.m.

Looks fantastic!

I recommend you apply 3 coats of Mohawk lacquer for brass ‘matte’ asap. It will play better, look like it does right now for a long time and you can’t even see that it’s there. If you use clear instead of matte, it will be very shiny.

ryebrye · by **ryebrye** » 2024-01-19 12:31 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]I use EZ-Off Heavy Duty oven cleaner. I spray any spots that have lacquer, then let it sit for a while (this is all outside, of course).

I just got a steam cleaner from Harbor Freight, so I put on a mask and eye protection, and really hit those spots with lacquer with the steam cleaner while steaming off the oven cleaner. Sometimes I have to scrape a bit at the lacquer with the steam cleaner bit (which is a pretty soft plastic... I haven't noticed any scratches).

I did this recently to a King 608 that I've been trying to remove the lacquer from for... probably two months, and it got the rest off in short order. No cool patina though.

On this horn, the patina showed up right away... I think my first couple passes with oven cleaner (which did not remove all the lacquer), I didn't shake up the oven cleaner can. Perhaps, and I'm totally guessing, whatever chemical comes out that is not yet mixed does something with the patina, added in with the steam from the steam cleaner. I really couldn't tell you.[/quote]

I'm thinking of stripping a Yamaha YSL-354 which I assume has an epoxy lacquer that Citristrip will not work on - so it will need some EZ Off treatment.

Do you just let the oven cleaner dry on it and hit it with the steam cleaner to get the rest of it off? (and just do it outside somewhere and just let the stuff that comes off just sort of disappear?)

Has the patina on that one stayed pretty similar to the way it came out?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-01-19 2:25 p.m.

Yup, I let the cleaner sit for a while before steaming.

The finishes do stay that way!

ghmerrill · by **ghmerrill** » 2024-01-19 5:34 p.m.

What about any of the non-brass (non-cupric?) areas -- like ferrules, slide locks, water keys, etc.? Are those impervious to the oven cleaner?

Also, have you ever done this on red/rose brass?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2024-01-19 6:44 p.m.

[quote="ghmerrill"]What about any of the non-brass (non-cupric?) areas -- like ferrules, slide locks, water keys, etc.? Are those impervious to the oven cleaner?

Also, have you ever done this on red/rose brass?[/quote]

I didn't notice much difference on the nickel parts. Just lacquer removal, of course!

I have removed lacquer and polished, but not patina'd a rose bell.

iranzi · by **iranzi** » 2024-10-01 6:24 p.m.

[quote="elmsandr"]

For some science on how to achieve different types of colors….

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text=" https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina- ... opper.aspx"> https://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx</LINK_TEXT>
[/quote]

This is great! Thank you

LR109 · by **LR109** » 2024-10-02 1:02 a.m.

Not as extreme but this was an immediate result with white vinegar and salt (can't remember the ratio) on a 42G.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2024-10-02 1:10 a.m.

[quote="LR109"]Not as extreme but this was an immediate result with white vinegar and salt (can't remember the ratio) on a 42G.[/quote]

Are you pleased with that look?

LR109 · by **LR109** » 2024-10-02 11:11 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="LR109" post_id="254550" time="1727845320" user_id="17810">
Not as extreme but this was an immediate result with white vinegar and salt (can't remember the ratio) on a 42G.[/quote]

Are you pleased with that look?
</QUOTE>

Pleased is a strong word, I'm quite indifferent... The aim was to make it look as scruffy as possible, so I'm content it does.

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Nice lacquer removal accident