Doubling on trombone and cornet

dxhall · by **dxhall** » 2018-11-25 6:49 p.m.

I just won an ebay auction for a vintage cornet. I’m not interested in becoming a virtuoso cornet player, but I’d like to try some 20s jazz solos on it. Is there a downside to playing both cornet and trombone? I don’t know anyone who does it.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-11-25 8:07 p.m.

There have been a number of players who doubled trumpet and trombone. Don't know of any who doubled cornet and trombone. I would guess it's possible. You will have to work on each instrument to get comfortable. Also, I found a large, wide rimmed mouthpiece worked best for me. Good luck and have fun.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-11-26 1:11 a.m.

Just do it.

imsevimse · 2018-11-26 3:11 a.m.

That shouldn't be a problem. You will learn if you really put work into it. When I grew up one teacher had the belief I should not switch mouthpiece, not to play trumpet, not even to change mouthpiece on trombone. "Pick one and stick to it". Other teachers pointed that as long as you put work in every mouthpiece it could be done. I decided to not put much work on different brass instruments although I also had access to a trumpet, and to stick to one mouthpiece at the time. I guess in my case in the state I was it was right not to fool around, since I had severe emboushure problems to take care of. In the 80:ies I bought an alto and a bass trombone but found it difficult to switch between them so I did not practice them a lot. The alto was easier than the bass.

Today my emboushure has settled and I play everything from tuba to soprano trombone and I switch alot. From my experience I do think it is an advantage to get a solid ground first before you start to switch, but you may be successful either way.

In some cases I do think switching in itself can be very helpful. For me it was. One thing that was beneficial to me was when I was working as a brass teacher and put the trombone on the shelf for a couple of years (in between 1996 and 1999) I started to play more trumpet and trombone only occasionally. I never became very good on the trumpet but my register did expand and when I was at my best I managed to play the slow movement from the Haydn trumpet concerto. Looking back the fresh start on the new different small mouthpiece did help my emboushure to some degree. I noticed this when I returned to trombone in the year 2000 and some things were a lot easier than before and it did not take long to get in shape on trombone either. Since I returned to play trombone regularly I'm much more comfortable to try new mouthpieces and I have been convinced the switching is not harmful and has helped my playing alot.

Everybody is different.

/Tom

StephenK · by **StephenK** » 2018-11-26 4:58 a.m.

I don't see any reason for not giving it a go.

dxhall · by **dxhall** » 2018-11-26 6:41 p.m.

Thanks for the advice. The horn arrived this afternoon and is in wonderful shape. It came with an Olds 3 mouthpiece, which I assume was standard with the horn. It seems very small to me. Any recommendations on a larger mouthpiece?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2018-11-26 6:47 p.m.

I use one that is no longer made: Neill Saunders 17dcd. Rather large cup (but not the biggest) and wide flat rim.

Bach's biggest is 1C. Don't know the biggest for Schilke/Yamaha.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2018-11-26 8:20 p.m.

I have an older friend who toured with big names probably in the 70s. He plays trumpet, trombone and bass trombone. He says the secret is to practice on each frequently. The trumpet and bone embouchures don't have anything to do with one another, according to him.

I've tried to play trumpet size instruments, and just couldn't do it. So some can and some can't, but if you're going to do it, you've got to practice both.

Redthunder · by **Redthunder** » 2018-11-27 1:53 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]The trumpet and bone embouchures don't have anything to do with one another, according to him.
[/quote]

This idea comes up every time doubling is discussed on brass, and I just don't buy it. I mean if that idea helps someone conceptualize something, that's fine, but that doesn't mean we should disregard the mechanics of embouchure that remain constant from one instrument to another in reality. I haven't heard a good argument to there being significant differences between how trumpet embouchures function compared to trombone, and I think that distinction is important. I've always tended to find it far more useful to quantify the similarities of embouchure on each instrument(mouthpiece placement and lip ratio, horn angle), and then focus on the things that do change, like air volume and air speed.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2018-11-27 2:03 p.m.

[quote="Redthunder"]I haven't heard a good argument to there being significant differences between how trumpet embouchures function compared to trombone, and I think that distinction is important.[/quote]

I don't think this is what he meant. I think he meant that strengthening your trumpet embouchure doesn't help you play high notes on the trombone. There is such a difference in size that one doesn't effect the other very much.

Redthunder · by **Redthunder** » 2018-11-27 3:27 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]

I don't think this is what he meant. I think he meant that strengthening your trumpet embouchure doesn't help you play high notes on the trombone. There is such a difference in size that one doesn't effect the other very much.[/quote]

Ahh, that makes much more sense from that perspective.

brtnats · by **brtnats** » 2018-11-27 5:58 p.m.

Do it. I play trumpet for church gigs with a Chasons hybrid moth piece, and I can immediately switch from tenor trombone to trumpet. Trumpet playing helps focus my high range and fine tune my air and soft machine. Those skills have really helped my trombone playing.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2018-11-27 10:01 p.m.

Not being a doubler myself I suspect but do not know for sure that the ah-ee of trombone may be different from the ah-ee of trumpet, if nor no other reason than that ah-ee for trombone runs out of headroom before trumpet is done. It seems like maybe a trombone position for, say, middle C, would need to behave like the same for trumpet C above in order to be useful. But I just do not know.

afugate · by **afugate** » 2018-11-28 7:55 a.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Just do it.[/quote]

Just do it correctly... 😉

I was never successful playing trumpet until I fixed some fundamental chop issues with Doug's teaching. Now, it's no big deal to pick it up and play. I'm no virtuoso, but I have the sound and flexibility I need to do the things I need to do when I do pick up the trumpet.

--Andy in OKC

VJOFan · by **VJOFan** » 2018-11-28 10:57 a.m.

When I play trumpet it is like doing weights for the embouchure muscles. It's good. Really firms things up. I just have to relax it all a little when I go back to trombone.

The most important difference between trumpet and trombone, for me anyway, is the air.

If I blow the trumpet with the same volume of air I do the trombone I can't control anything and my chops die very quickly. If I blow a volume of air appropriate to the bore of each instrument, I get much better and more musical results.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-11-28 11:28 a.m.

[quote="afugate"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="71799" time="1543212660" user_id="51">
Just do it.[/quote]

Just do it correctly... 😉

I was never successful playing trumpet until I fixed some fundamental chop issues with Doug's teaching. Now, it's no big deal to pick it up and play. I'm no virtuoso, but I have the sound and flexibility I need to do the things I need to do when I do pick up the trumpet.

--Andy in OKC
</QUOTE>

Well sure... But you have to start somewhere. You can't make corrections until there's something to correct.

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Doubling on trombone and cornet