Conn Bass Trom recognition help.

conn88Hagmann · by **conn88Hagmann** » 2023-04-20 7:58 a.m.

I’ve been offered the following as a trade sale. . BUT,

Is it a bird, is it a plane or is it a single plug variant of an 83H?

Bought new in 1979, one owner (who’s a tuba player so little use)

What is it guys! I bow to your superior knowledge. . .

Plays beautifully. <ATTACHMENT filename="2EB0A0C9-AC87-4399-8866-38A483D6772B.jpeg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~2EB0A0C9-AC87-4399-8866-38A483D6772B.jpeg</ATTACHMENT><ATTACHMENT filename="7012B873-A25E-473A-B746-4CFB5C787E2E.jpeg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~7012B873-A25E-473A-B746-4CFB5C787E2E.jpeg</ATTACHMENT>

A rare beauty?

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2023-04-20 8:40 a.m.

If you like the way it plays then trade for it. Just make sure the value is even-given the year this was built it's nothing special or valuable from a "vintage" standpoint.

spencercarran · by **spencercarran** » 2023-04-20 9:16 a.m.

A single which definitely doesn't have an E pull... if it plays well it plays well, but that valve setup is pretty limiting in actual use.

greenbean · 2023-04-20 10:38 a.m.

I will guess that this is an early- or mid-1970s Conn product. The main tuning slide is in the style of 71H/74H. And the stupidity of making a deliberate non-E-pull slide fits in with Conn practices of the 70's.

Perhaps they continued to call this a 71H...

No model # stamped on either side of the slide tenon?

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2023-04-20 10:39 a.m.

Pretty sure that's a 71H - the 73H was the double valve version. They had the same valve wraps as the 60H - 62/H with yellow bells and tuning in the bell rather than in the slides. I think there were some other differences in the size of the bell throats too.

Jim Scott

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-04-20 11:02 a.m.

Modified 83h is the best guess. It's not like any other Conn wrap, and the engraving is definitely post-elkhart, mid 70s - 80s?

Personally I wouldn't buy or trade for it unless you can put your hands on it and it has a great slide, and plays great in some register. Or maybe you need it for parts.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2023-04-20 3:01 p.m.

Yeah, I see the difference now - not exactly a 71H. Maybe they used different parts from other production models later on?

JS

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2023-04-20 3:09 p.m.

Wow, never seen one like that. It definitely has the exact F attachment wrap used on the 83H, with the shorter tuning slide. The bends are all the same. It's also very hard to find ANY information about the 83H bass trombone, almost like it doesn't exist. If there was a single valve version that might be even harder to find information on, unless they just decided to use the same parts for both a 72H and 83H to save money.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-04-20 4:16 p.m.

Looks like a cross between a 71H (single-valve) and a (very rare) 83H (double valve).

Doubtful if many of these were produced - could be a one-off. :idk:

May be a fine player if slide and valve are O.K. - worth having if you want a single-valve bass; just not worth a lot on the "open market."

Thrawn22 · by **Thrawn22** » 2023-04-20 4:39 p.m.

I'd like to see bell engraving.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-04-20 7:02 p.m.

[quote="Thrawn22"]I'd like to see bell engraving.[/quote]

It's the standard Conn Artist Symphony script along the axis of the bell flare.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2023-04-20 9:02 p.m.

"Bought new in 1979." So, made sometime mid- to late-70s. Hmm... I wouldn't bet my own money that it is a great player. If I could play it first, I would consider it. Not otherwise.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-04-20 9:21 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]<QUOTE author="Thrawn22" post_id="207968" time="1682023195" user_id="3709">
I'd like to see bell engraving.[/quote]

It's the standard Conn Artist Symphony script along the axis of the bell flare.
</QUOTE>

Pretty typical, then, of Abilene manufacture?

Roughly mid-to-late 1970s?

Could be OK. Or not!

JMudge · by **JMudge** » 2023-04-20 9:45 p.m.

Like others mentioned…….curious as to what is on the slide receiver and tenon

I like the main tuning slide guard. Maybe a final special order 71H or a prototype single valve companion for the 83H??

Blabberbucket · by **Blabberbucket** » 2023-04-20 11:05 p.m.

[quote="JMudge"]Like others mentioned…….curious as to what is on the slide receiver and tenon

I like the main tuning slide guard. Maybe a final special order 71H or a prototype single valve companion for the 83H??[/quote]

That was my thought - probably a prototype or customer request for a single valve 83. Cool wrap.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2023-04-20 11:11 p.m.

[quote="Blabberbucket"]<QUOTE author="JMudge" post_id="207994" time="1682041538" user_id="7002">
Like others mentioned…….curious as to what is on the slide receiver and tenon

I like the main tuning slide guard. Maybe a final special order 71H or a prototype single valve companion for the 83H??[/quote]

That was my thought - probably a prototype or customer request for a single valve 83. Cool wrap.
</QUOTE>
I've run into more than one person who was seriously considering having their double converted to a single to "save weight". It's possible that's what was done here.

Blabberbucket · by **Blabberbucket** » 2023-04-20 11:19 p.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Blabberbucket" post_id="207995" time="1682046304" user_id="15797">

That was my thought - probably a prototype or customer request for a single valve 83. Cool wrap.[/quote]
I've run into more than one person who was seriously considering having their double converted to a single to "save weight". It's possible that's what was done here.
</QUOTE>
No evidence of solder or repair work done, so if that's the case then this bell section was relacquered after this work was done. Not out of the question. Lots of evidence of bell distortion and denting/repair.

SlideCrook · by **SlideCrook** » 2023-04-21 12:29 a.m.

Wasn’t there an ad from late 70s or early 80s that called this an 81H? I remember some remarks from the Trombone-L listserv saying that it was a dog.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2023-04-21 10:12 a.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]Pretty typical, then, of Abilene manufacture?

Roughly mid-to-late 1970s?

Could be OK. Or not![/quote]

Early Abilene still had the '60's art deco engraving (with Abilene, TX or even just USA replacing the Elkhart, Ind text). I'm not sure exactly when they started with the Artist Symphony engraving, but I'd guess mid/late 70s. The 48h was the only Elkhart bone I know of to have the along-the-axis script.

Is this a yellow or rose bell? The first pic looks yellow, but the second one looks redder. The 83h was a rose bell, and it's definitely a post-Elkart bell. I'm not sure they still offered the option of the bow guard on the tuning slide after Elkhart. This might have been fully factory custom in the mid-70s. If it's not fully factory custom, someone did a lot of work to make it look like it was. A yellow 83h bell would be a custom request either way.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2023-04-21 1:16 p.m.

[quote="SlideCrook"]Wasn’t there an ad from late 70s or early 80s that called this an 81H? I remember some remarks from the Trombone-L listserv saying that it was a dog.[/quote]

81H would be in line with the double version being 83H. Replacing the 71H and 73H.

hornbuilder · by **hornbuilder** » 2023-04-21 9:47 p.m.

I don't think there has ever been an 81H.

This list doesn't show the 83H for some reason..

SteveM · by **SteveM** » 2023-04-21 10:26 p.m.

The Conn Loyalist site has a separate page for the post-Elkhart period. It does show the 83H.

Conn Post-Elkhart Trombone Model Number List

Model Number Model Name Year Introduced Years Used Year Discontinued

5H #3 Bore Victor with lightweight slide - 1979 -

16H #3 Bore Director 1970 - 1979

18H #3 Bore Director 1980 1980-1983 -

74H #3½ Bore Artist with red brass bell - 1977-1983 -

75H #3½ Bore Artist with single rotor and red brass bell - 1979-1983 -

76H #3½ Bore Century - 1983 -

83H #5 Bore Bass with double rotor and red brass bell - 1979 -

100H #3 Bore "100" Series - 1983 -

110H #5 Bore Bass with single rotor - 1983 -

111H #5 Bore Bass with double rotor - 1983 -

112H #5 Bore Bass with double in-line rotor - 1983 -

~~[url]~~https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArt27-TRB.html

Thrawn22 · by **Thrawn22** » 2023-04-21 11:54 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="hyperbolica" post_id="207976" time="1682031730" user_id="104">

It's the standard Conn Artist Symphony script along the axis of the bell flare.[/quote]

Pretty typical, then, of Abilene manufacture?

Roughly mid-to-late 1970s?

Could be OK. Or not!
</QUOTE>

AH.Thats what i get for not paying attention.

Well if you sell it you'd get a lot of interest in it.

conn88Hagmann · by **conn88Hagmann** » 2023-04-22 5:41 a.m.

I’m Asking for some more photos, pictures of the engraving etc.

I think it may be a transitional model post 71h. <EMOJI seq="1f937-1f3fb-2642" tseq="1f937-1f3fb-200d-2642-fe0f">🤷🏻‍♂️</EMOJI>

According to one of the Bass Bones at the Royal Opera it blows really nicely. I haven’t tried it yet.

It’s as it was supplied from the shop in 1979 and has been with the same professional tuba player since. Hence condition.

SteveM · by **SteveM** » 2023-04-22 12:28 p.m.

All the Conns I've seen had the model number stamped in the area where the slide and bell sections connect. Sometimes it's hard find it or see it, but I would expect it to be there.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2023-04-22 12:43 p.m.

Let's step in where Conn (apparently) left off, and officially designate this instrument as an 81H bass trombone. :idea:

It makes sense according to Conn's (rather haphazard) numbering system - the single-valve version of the otherwise-similar dual-rotor 83H.

And there's apparently no one left at Conn to dispute our designation. ;)

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Conn Bass Trom recognition help.