Information on Boosey & Hawkes Marching Baritone

sconn90 · by **sconn90** » 2023-05-26 5:11 p.m.

Hi--

I've been a lurker for a few months now; finally signed up and have a mystery that I'd like help solving, please. And yes, it's about a marching baritone, but there doesn't seem to be a marchingbaritonetalk.com. :)

I bought a used marching baritone on Facebook, stamped with Boosey & Hawkes Regent. It has a 5-digit serial number on the 2nd valve, 03283. The serial number/date information I've found shows Boosey/Besson/B&H production with only 5 digits in the serial number as over 100 years old, which is not the case with this horn. It seems like when B&H stopped making instruments, they wiped out any information about their manufacturing.

When I bought a Besson London 600 series tenor trombone on Facebook, eventually I found information matching the serial number to a model 639 made in the mid-90s. But no such luck with this marching baritone.

Does anyone have guidance for me, please?

Thanks--

Steve

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2023-05-26 6:38 p.m.

Adding some pictures can help.

By the way, there is a Tuba-Euphonium forum (I just don't have the URL here).

Jameseuph642 · by **Jameseuph642** » 2023-05-26 9:33 p.m.

I believe at one point the B and H marching brass was made by Olds.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2023-05-26 10:31 p.m.

Maybe Kanstul?

Here's a link to an Olds marching baritone for sale; the wrap is rather distinctive.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/27393641-f-e-ol ... ld-lacquer">https://reverb.com/item/27393641-f-e-olds-sons-marching-baritone-1977-78-gold-lacquer</LINK_TEXT>

and the Kanstul:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.kanstul.com/instruments/mar ... -baritone/">https://www.kanstul.com/instruments/marching-brass/290-bb-marching-baritone/</LINK_TEXT>

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2023-05-27 3:21 a.m.

There are two Boosey & Hawkes marching baritone-like instruments I know of.

Type 1: <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.horn-u-copia.net/instrument ... ritone.jpg">https://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Boosey/LaFleur-Marching-baritone.jpg</LINK_TEXT>

Type 2: <LINK_TEXT text="https://yorkmaster.org/yorkmaster/photo ... index.html">https://yorkmaster.org/yorkmaster/photos/1414580968-BH-La-Fleur-march-baritone-3P/index.html</LINK_TEXT>

Both have wraps wildly different from any American marching baritone, and the second one has to be a bass flugelhorn based on that fat cone of a flare. The first one has a flare more like your typical marching baritone.

I know absolutely nothing about the production information about either of these...perhaps someone on the Tuba Forum (~~[url=tubaforum.com]~~LINK) would know.

That Olds wrap was used by Olds, Bach, and Blessing, though they are not actually the same instrument.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2023-05-27 3:43 a.m.

Ziggy Kanstul told me he had made many instruments for B&H and Besson over the years, that was not limited to Olds as I had that conversation with him at his Kanstul factory 3 or 4 years before his passing. I wish I had retained more information from that day, I think he could make them to their design not just his own... Doug

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2023-05-27 4:26 a.m.

I visited Kanstul's previous factory and they were making Besson and/or B&H marching instruments at that time, I would guess it was in the mid to late 1980's.

sconn90 · by **sconn90** » 2023-05-30 6:10 p.m.

In response to the recommendation above, here are some photos (posting links since I can't figure out how to embed images)

Full view:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtNG4nK7wUOPlfN078O ... Q?e=GUUDfD">https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtNG4nK7wUOPlfN078O8il_ma_XiNQ?e=GUUDfD</LINK_TEXT>

Bell branding:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtNG4nK7wUOPlfNzn2V ... w?e=wzu8np">https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtNG4nK7wUOPlfNzn2V4mfodhhXFZw?e=wzu8np</LINK_TEXT>

Thank you for the responses - super helpful.

bbocaner · by **bbocaner** » 2023-05-30 11:02 p.m.

Looks just like an olds, which is a well-liked model.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2023-05-30 11:33 p.m.

Is that horn in Bb?

Just checking. It looks like a lot of tubing. And the valve slides look long.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-05-30 11:33 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Is that horn in Bb?

Just checking. It looks like a lot of tubing.[/quote]

Yup, they're just wrapped really tight.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2023-05-30 11:37 p.m.

Wondering if it might be in G.

There are 3 valve G bugles.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2023-05-30 11:39 p.m.

Nope, just Bb. They're pretty small overall. Really questionable ergonomics, nowhere to put fingers

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2023-05-31 1:07 a.m.

[quote="bbocaner"]Looks just like an olds, which is a well-liked model.[/quote]
Blessing and Bach (Selmer) both used that same pattern. Not sure if anyone else did.

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2023-05-31 2:39 p.m.

Yep, that's the same wrap as the Olds/Blessing/Bach design. Bog standard Bb marching baritone, though they play better than most.

Interestingly, although they are all the same wrap, they are actually not just stencils of the same instrument. The bracing is a bit different between them, they were built in different places, and they have entirely different valve blocks. The Blessing is the best of the lot, as it has a Bauerfeind valve set (which is extremely good, and kind of has no business being on a marching baritone). This B&H looks like it has the Olds/Bach valve block though, so it's probably a stencil of one of those.

They are great players. They play, sound, and even look like a bass cornet to me - more color than a lot of marching baritones.

sconn90 · by **sconn90** » 2023-06-01 2:26 p.m.

Thanks again for the comprehensive information. Yes, it's in Bb, and (for someone who has rarely used valves) seems fairly easy to play. The sound is darker than my Conn 50H, as expected, but it can honk in the lower ranges. It takes a surprisingly greater amount of air to get it there.

I think, if nothing else, it will give me relatively more air on the 50H.

Thanks again - this community is amazing!

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